Steve G

It does indeed (I only have the French PS rather than the US copy), thanks.

Hello Tempest, I know the album came out in 74 but as far as I can see the US single didn't chart until 1977, which is why I asked the question. Obviously we also have the French single clouding things which came out in 74-5. But it is the US single release date I am interested in.

Anyone know when this was first released as a single in the USA. I know when"Winter In America" LP was issued, but the 45?

Blimey Wednesday evening comes round quickly Not surprised about Gwen Owens.

Time to re-ignite this old thread. Still no idea who Susan Phillips was, but this is proof of her first 45 - AP 2328 (one sided).

Isn't popcorn a genre? Having met a few people connected with that scene, they would tell you it most definitely was, just as much as northern was here (only less people on the Belgian scene).

Charles Johnson was played as a newish release at Wigan (RS) and was pretty popular at the time throughout the country. Perhaps some of you guys had left the scene by then?

Some of us collectors do exactly that.

The reality is no ones collection is worth a million (or indeed why stop there - much more in some cases) unless they can realise that sum on selling them. I can't think of anyone who is going to spend £1m+ on someone's collection. Therefore it is nothing more than an 'on paper' value for anything other than insurance purposes. Even if you started selling all the items in your collection two things would emerge very quickly: 1) it would take an age to shift all the big "value" items, and some wouldn't sell. 2) a lot of items have zero value because you won't be able to shift them at all. You've only got to look at some sales boxes to realise how stale many of them are. Anyway, even the most ardent of collectors don't know all the other collectors globally or what other collectors have in their boxes / record rooms / lock ups etc. Can we just get back to enjoying the music rather than constantly fretting about prices and values? Love to all X

Interesting perspective. I consider myself a serious soul collector (not just northern); been doing it all my adult life, for me it is about owning the original artefact and the historical provenance that goes with it (i.e. someone's hopes and dreams of success, who is the person whose name is written on it, why / how did they buy it, what was the recording session like etc., even what was the label thinking of). It is also about having a collection, like any other type of "collector". Whilst CDs are valuable especially for unissued tracks and when a serious writer is employed for the sleeve notes (some interesting history), to me they will never replace original vinyl. Rarity or the music? As a (mainly) collector who DJs occasionally, I only buy records I like or by artists / producers I collect. But the lure of something different / unknown (and / or rare) is always an attraction I must admit.

This old chestnut. My tuppenyworth. 1) Disposable income. There are a lot of very rich people wanting records (not just old quite a few younger folk in well paid jobs - Tech, Banks, Creative Arts, Advertising, Commodities etc.). Additionally for older folk inheritance kicking in as parents die. As someone said if you are a millionaire overbidding is like one of us mortals buying a pint - chump change, or perhaps taking the missus out on a semi regular "date night" - costs more but hardly breaking the bank unless you are unlucky enough to be on UC. 2) Record collecting is more popular than it has ever been, despite the old boys saying it is dying out / will be over in 10 years. Genres that you couldn't give away decades ago, now fetching high prices. Some records that were in demand now badly out of fashion, others massively "in". And of course soul collecting is now global, not largely limited to callow youth in a record bar in the UK. Linked to this the advent of the "trophy record" which transcends trends and the people that crave them. Del Larks, Salvadors, Eddie Parker we all know 'em. 3) You absolutely can compare records to stamp collecting and other forms of collecting from football cards to enamel signs to comics, especially the genuinely rare records (not the "dozens of copy" records that people keep saying are "very rare" like Cecil W, Sam Dees etc. which are not rare). Aligned to that is a lack of knowledge amongst some collectors. No real idea of what is rare and what was about in quantity and therefore by definition no compass to guide them. At this point if something is genuinely rare, it is unlikely more copies will surface. Not impossible, but increasingly unlikely. Look at the amount of crap on eBay, discogs etc. 4) Auction fever is a thing. If someone outbids you on something you want, its like the neighbour popping round and dumping on your doorstep. You respond until you realise they are an ex UFC champion. 5) Most collectibles have increased in price massively in the last two years, partly due to lockdown etc. and some people having more money as the gulf between well off and poor has increased. I talk to my postie sometimes about his collecting passion - vintage football programmes. Same story, prices ridiculous, always outbid, can't believe it etc. Another mate collects / deals in mid century furniture - same story. 6) Time is a thing. If you are in your 60s and have dosh there can be a feeling of "IF I don't buy it now I might never get another chance". 7) Chasing already in demand records. Always been a thing but it inflates prices temporarily. Yes, collecting genres can overheat and possibly records have, but I am far than convinced that this will die with my generation. Have fun with that lot! X

Depends on what you want to hear?

Great info about the fake Shirelles, never knew that. Steve

I'd say these people do like soul music and do want records without giving a hoot how much they cost. I have worked with people who owned Ferrarris, expensive boats, ran successful businesses etc. Trust me they didn't give a fig about depreciation in value on hobbies, it is all about having something they deem to be special to them. It is in their psyche, if they want something, they'll make sure they get it. The rise of the superrich in industries that barely existed when we were young has also been phenomenal and helped create a group of people who live very different lives to the rest of us. To try and analyse motives etc. is I am afraid futile.

I happen to know of several collectors who are multi millionaires and so do some of you I'd wager. Which means there will be more of these folk out there that we don't know of. To those guys a few extra K on something they want is chump change. And they really don't care if "the good old boys" call them dumb / mugs etc. That is the harsh reality of the collecting world we inhabit today whether we like it or not. I like Cecil and do play it sometimes (NM), although I think its best days are probably behind it now.

There is enough here for a dissertation.

What price a Charles Mintz? Probably less than DoS these days.

Quite a few gone down with it after Bank Holiday events in Brighton. Not me, but I know quite a few who have succumbed.

Hi Steve, I have Satisfaction Unlimited "Why", a Freda Payne and the Jones Girls too which is excellent. Must have been part of that 1992 "haul". Apart from the Jones GirIs which came much later, I got the rest of them from Pat who I was visiting quite regularly between 89-94.

Agree with all that Pete (y). From memory and without checking my notes there were two versions of one of the VRC singles, one mentions J.Curry the other doesn't. Steve

More than a possibility I'd say Pete. When I was researching for my book, turns out that the two Curry girls (Joyce and Geraldine) hung around with Earl Lee who was also a co writer on the Mellowettes side.

When the 45 came out "We can work it out`" was the A side as far as the Greenberg's were concerned. I know they were very happy with it. One of the 6 here got it in 1990 with a few other unissued MM / Invictus/HW test presses.

Mine is a demo and for this one I'd say it is impossible to say this was "promo only" with any degree of confidence. Even if Wand didn't release it commercially, issues may have been pressed up and one or two may well have leaked out from the office. To put it in the context of a well known UK release, Shane Martin was reviewed in Record Mirror as a new release off of the demo. CBS had issues pressed and ready to go, but then suddenly pulled the release, matrix numbers were scratched out etc. on copies and it was deleted. But a few copies sneaked out via reps visiting Head Office etc. So we will never know for sure, and if someone says they had an issue, they may well be right.

Must admit I am pretty sure I read somewhere that it was indeed Barbara Lomas on the Columbia 45 as well + other unknown singers.

Yes they were 3 superb musical sisters right there. Looks like Geraldine ended up marrying Toby Henry, one of her writers, in the 1990s. I am not sure if Doris was the oldest sister, but think she probably was.