Steve G

Same here Ted, just asked to give an opinion as to it's authenticity. Didn't take a picture of the one I saw either, but maybe one of the buyers will see this and post a scan up. If they're not demanding their money back of course.

Hi Benji, yes there is a thread running on FB about Greater Experience in one of the rare soul pages. Last 12 months or so.

I only saw it in semi subdued light of a pub gig, and no one had an original to compare it with. But it was so obviously a bootleg. This, Greater Experience, and John wesley on Melic, which has been booted on brand spanking new vinyl and had exactly the same fudged lettering on the side, not nice and sharp at all. Someone is being very cute here feeding boots out to unsuspecting buyers.

Quite right Ted Massey, another one that has been booted, the writing on the sides looks faded (not clear or crisp) on the boots, like it's been stored in the damp. But of course the vinyl is brand shining new. No talc or carpet burn "weathering" on the boot I've seen.

Not aware of any, but that doesn't mean they haven't, just that I haven't been keeping an eye on it.

John Lamonte, taken out by Morris Levy and his goons if I remember correctly. There is another great story of Levy and his enforcer Nate McCalla (owner of Calla Records) going out to Brooklyn with the intent of baseball batting a bootlegger they had discovered. When they got there they were going to give him a new body, but relented when the guy said he was only doing it to raise money for an operation for his sick child, and promised that he wouldn't bootleg any more records on Roulette. I think that story was in Tommy James's book.

I know it just beggars belief, I just looked at this and the bidding hasn't gone up anymore since this thread kicked in.

The knowledge isn't there either. Many people just make it up to suit. Someone once asked me about Tony Troutman, and I told em. They insisted I was wrong because their mate who is a big name on the scene told them something different because of the "legal markings" on the outside of the rim. So as long as people guess and make things up, this type of thing will continue. There is a lot of disposable cash about too.

…as they say a fool and his money are soon parted.

When were these done?

The last one I saw for sale eighteen months ago was either 500 or 600, and I think it sold too.

Nothing surprises me anymore.

Gladys Knight UK tour in the summer. Because she was brilliant.

3-10632

When do records cease to be bootlegs and become "legit 2nd issues"? Is there like an incubation period of 10 years?

Thats quite a nice gospel record. I have a big box full of Hob singles, in fact most of them, I'll have to go through them as I recall there are several good numbers amongst em….Connie Pitts "Working people", then a really good pre soulful house shouter from Chicago one of the last ones on the label, and there is another one that is like a gospel version of The Temps "All I need"…..maybe I might do some Xmas digging in the lock up….and pull a few out.

Yes Peter, but I am not going to make it easier for the bootleggers next time by revealing the tell tale signs that give it away (there were several). Suffice to say I can tell a new record from an early 70s one. I used my own late Tangerine 45s, my nose and my eyes. And of course my brain. I was told this, and the moody Willie Tee (both of which are stone mint) turned up in a Soul pack. That might help in "joining the dots" here. Rest assured there was no mystery TRC late release. After the Raelettes, Ray Charles closed the label down and went on vacation for 6 months. Rita Graham was long gone from TRC by 1973. And there is no Gatur 507 either. Sorry guys. Cheers

Licensed? come on Dave….. Yes Barnum & Axelrod produced the album.

Next up Willie Tee…"Bring on the heartaches" on Gatur 507 single - I kid you not!!! Another fake.

Yep Dave, I saw the record last night. Sorry guys, but as suspected it is a 100% recent bootleg.

The offer is still open to meet you and P, Wayne. for a beer and to have a closer look. I can smell an original from the early 70s honest

Until I've seen the record (which I hopefully will soon) I don't want to keep commenting on bootleg versus original. However it is quite possible to have an issue that is dead rare if the copies never got out of the factory, plenty of examples of that where an engineer or A&R man took a couple of copies but there are no others out there. Equally we've long speculated about bootlegging 300 copies, smashing or holding back 295 and selling the other 5 for a lot of money (much more than the cost of pressing 300). So we can speculate all we want, but until seen the vinyl, it is just that, speculation and guesswork. Lars also makes an interesting point too about having seen the trashed copy. Merry Xmas all….

Correct RBMan, there were adverts etc and a review for The Raelettes 1031 in BB, and nothing at all about 1032. But that is not definitive of anything as plenty of stuff never got into Billboard. PS: john Benson my Neil Kimble is in a "Ray Charles presents"….bag…ha ha.

Just for interest sake here is the cool "bag" for 1031 issue copies (The Raelettes) which is styrene. 45Cat only lists this as a WD, but there is an issue here. Interestingly whilst most of my higher numbers are styrene, 1030 (Neal Kimble) is vinyl.

I've offered Chalky…..the record is in my town. Good point about the release year not being on it John Reed, and the lack of demos, which would have been first for radio plays.