Steve G

That's exactly what I heard from a different source. And I bet 90% of people didn't know that story.

Hey I am being honest with my opinion Steve. I don't like it much. It is allowed you know.

I am afraid I've always thought it borrows too heavily from "Downtown" - but don't tell Ian or I'll be in trouble.

Whenever it's been in the media focus though it's always had the Hand Baggers. Back at Wigan - loads of passing trade that jumped on the bandwagon. Thing is now northern soul means many different things to different people and the whole thing has become very fragmented.- upfront 60s / 70s newies, oldies, R&B / R&R, Top 500, some of the funkier things, and Ian says his productions are northern soul too....So much so that I now think the term Northern soul is largely meaningless as too many different types of music have been hitched to it's name. So I wonder whether we should just ditch the tag completely. Ian I saw you slagging off SAm for clearing the floor at the Ritz earlier in this thread. I see nothing wrong with Sam clearing the floor, as long as he is able to get it back afterwards. I have long maintained that as a DJ unless you clear the floor at least once or twice you're being too twee with your selections....I also remember Searling clearing the Casino floor (virtually unheard of and quite unnerving at the time) when he played Judy Freeman "Hold On". Now you wouldn't deny that as being a great piece of northern deserving of plays would you? And it cleared the floor when he played it. My question is why single out Sam for this criticism?

I am going to "out Levine" Levine now but this post is PURE B*LLOCKS Simon. All of the recent series have made GREAT TV.

...Well except there have always been strong rumours circulating about him beating up on Tammi Terrell repeatedly before the night she collapsed with her brain tumour......I know it doesn't sound nice, but soul music ain't all about nice people always - and various artists I've spoken to have all said that David was a bad guy - even though he had a great voice.

Everyone who goes out in Herts and Beds for a start mate.

I'd agree with that - balanced and articulate. I was quite surprised that Terry had it in him!

...g'wan then.....while Ian is away remixing Sharon Jones & Dap Kings ....be quick tho' he'll be back shortly.

Agree a top tune. It has had plays every so often over the years.

But you are missing the point Ian. Northern Soul is a far broader church than you think.....You've missed many years of it's development when you weren't around and it's not all "wistful chord changes and uplifting full arrangements". That's a part of it, but not all of it. Next you'll be telling me that Jimmy Radcliffe or Joe Hicks (two ends of the spectrum) isn't northern soul.

At the time it was being hyped as "25 copies found in Danny leake's basement" and you know it was - one thing you cannot re-write / remix is history. Now you say it's 100 copies and a "first issue" Fair enough I know it's a first issue - Mark Houghton found one in Record & Tape Exchange for £1....but it was pressed up at Damon Hayes Middlesex in 2001 or whenever and not in 1974 as people were led to believe. If you had said you had this great unissued record (which it was) and sold those 100 copies at 10 or 15 or even 20 each you would have got much more credibility from this whole episode rather than trying to make out it was something it wasn't. Presumably another 'dupe' for those oh so foolish collectors, except a few genuine guys got caught up in this one. The saga didn't do you any favours at all Ian, but at least you are now being open about it. Too reactionary - Moi? I'll get me anorak! just because I don't like some of your recordings does not make me any more closed minded than you are to aspects of the northern scene or soul music that you don't happen to like. Like you I don't like the R&R stuff or the dirges or the R&B, but there's an awful lot of other good stuff out there still today man.

Hi Ian D, I've sped red through much of it now - phoar. I don't say we don't get along, as I don't really know him that well - though have obviously met him on a number of occasions and been round his house etc....two issues of contention which I don't agree with him on, and which I outlined on P6 all those days ago. "NS" type 2007/8 productions and the David Rhodes (I know it was a 70s recording cos Sam had an acetate on Pye or some such late 70s)....We come to these things with a different perspective, I will always be a soul fan first, a collector a close second, and northern scene celebrity last. Ian is now dissing the collecting side of it, and that's HIS choice. But let's not forget when Ian came back onto the scene late 90s he was collecting just about every piece of vinyl he could.....then a few years later he stopped. That's fine, but I got lost when he decided what he could do was somehow better than what the collective talent of black america in the 60s and 70s had to offer.

Hey Chrissie, if we can have endless pages of SSLAAS and people pouring each other G&T's each night and Bearsy-bating surely we can have more pages of discussion on all things Ian Levine. At least there is some interesting stuff going around between all the barbs....

Steve G wrote: The two issues I had / have with Ian that I am aware of are: 1) his calling what he does today as "NS" - he knows I don't agree with that, and was critical of his NS 2007 CD, not because of the musical content, but because of the assumption (his) that you can create CDs full of NS today - I just don't see it as authentic, and it's all about what is "Northern Soul" - a style of music that anyone can make, anytime, or a scene based on recordings from a genre and a period in time - he and I disagree on that and will forever Ian I do not agree. If I took FYC "Good thing" it certainly sounds like northern, wadles like northern but it ain't bleedin' northern (good record as it is). Not in my rather large pidgeonhole it ain't northern anyway. Same with Edwyn Collins. There are plenty of records that sound like northern which simply ain't northern. Not an ideal analogy perhaps, but if I want to go to a Picasso exhibition, I want to see Picassos not Fred from Islington's interpretation of Picassos. I am not miserable Ian - I have had a splendid weekend away and have 16 pages of your thread to read over lunch.

Maybe time to get that short term memory loss checked out Steve - quote from Ian yesterday: "It's those few I see - Tomangoes, Pikey's Dog, Steve Guarnori, Mark Bicknell, Jumping Joan, Black And White, etc etc etc, who are so possessive of their unique scene of rare records and soul collectors, that they deny the music any chance to exist in another thirty years". Ian does have a chance to contribute - he has his own thread on here ffs and is contributing to it regularly!

Did he actually say this or just imply it? like you I appreciate a wide spectrum of black music - everything from my stormers to new releases - in the latter camp both the better house records and some indie CDs - and a whole load in between, including deep soul, beat ballads, funk, 70s 80s 90s etc. And then ironically I'm called "narrow minded" by a guy who dismisses everything with less than 135 bpm as "rubbish". I think the comment "if you like the stuff played at Stafford you probably won't like my CD" - is key here. Ian's view of Northern is largely based on uptempo 60s sounds of the style played early Mecca / WIgan, when in reality NS has a rich history beyond those venues and the tunes they played (late Wigan, Stafford, 100, Lifeline etc), and a much wider variety of musical styles (i.e not just based on Motown type stuff), which he seemingly refuses to accept. Northern is a scene that has evolved over the years and northern sounds cannot be pidgeon holed into a fixed style. Of course Ian missed all that because he had already proclaimed northern as being dead in 1976 and had moved on to pastures new etc etc. The two issues I had / have with Ian that I am aware of are: 1) his calling what he does today as "NS" - he knows I don't agree with that, and was critical of his NS 2007 CD, not because of the musical content, but because of the assumption (his) that you can create CDs full of NS today - I just don't see it as authentic, and it's all about what is "Northern Soul" - a style of music that anyone can make, anytime, or a scene based on recordings from a genre and a period in time - he and I disagree on that and will forever. 2) the rubbish about David Rhodes, Venecia Wilson etc being real records, which has been done to death now, and which he eventually fessed up on. For the record I will buy his new DVD of re-recordings because I want to see these folks singing their songs. I hope there is reasoned debate on this thread - so far I am seeing little evidence of it, we'll see.......

No Chrissie that was one of a number of dark moments in the scene history. But you cannot deny that 70s sounds have been part of the northern scene since....err....the early 70s even if you don't personally like them. weren't you there when things like Anderson Brothers, Life "Tell me why", First Choice etc etc Now behave on the 70s thing or I'll tread on your leg plaster cast on the 30th

Shouldn't that be "I just fell off my pedestal" Ian

It is wrong Trevski, the FE's was big early 77. Carol A was about 2 years later.

This was not a tailor made. This post is just wrong. Flaming Emeralds reissued? You mean UK issue on Grapevine which was pretty contemporary with it's US release - a matter of months at most. The guys at fee all had a strong Detroit pedigree and although John A had some dealings with them, both the 45 and the LP that Carol did at the same time were great. Track down the article I did in Manifesto which outlined all this stuff....pleeeez.

Hi Ian, and welcome back to Soul Source. For your information my one comment on this new film posted some time ago was: "Anyway good luck with the film". I am fully aware that this isn't going to be a documentary or a tribute film, and have no expectations about the musical content or the historical accuracy. It is what is is and I am happy to see it when it comes out and judge it on whether its entertaining or not. Since you name me in person, allow me the courtesy of a brief response. Yes I am unashamedly a soul collector, it's a pursuit I have enjoyed for many years. I have thoroughly enjoyed amassing as many good records as I could, and hearing as much authentic black music as I can (from all eras not just the 60s and early 70s). My pursuit for records and hearing new music has taken me to many places, but I have enjoyed almost every minute of it. I have also enjoyed sharing it via numerous tapes and CDs for friends, endless articles in magazines, radio shows every week for 4 years and numerous DJ sets - so hardly "denying the music" as you put it. In fact I have forgotten more about soul music than many of the so called 'big guns' that spout off or get wheeled out every time the words "northern" and "soul" are put together in the same sentance. I remain very passionate about it all too. Anyway....back to "Souled Out".......

Its just a plain red label and not the same as the 60s Bunkys. I too got one from Al at his gig at Leighton Buzzard mid 90s which was great even if there were only 30 of us there.....Steve