Steve G

Easy to say from your armchair Martin, but what new sounds have you (or any of the other knockers) broken / contributed to the rare soul scene in the last 10 years then? Very easy to knock others when youre not actually on the front edge of buying / breaking new sounds in an oldies dominated environment.

An interesting perspective Nick but I still think there is a DJ exclusive angle to it all. By way of example I reckon if I had covered up the DoubleOO Demingoes when I first played it, it would still be covered / unknown just because of the lack of an obvious chorus etc. When I first played it, it cleared the floor, and although several people came up, it clearly was not a "play safe" track, and likely did cause offence to certain elements of the crowd. I also paid quite a bit for it, but thought it had that something different and worthy of spins. I played it uncovered and listed it in playlists and a small number of other copies have since been sourced / played, to the point where at one gig recently the two DJs both on before me both had it. So I didn't even bother to take it with me. With heinsight and purely from a selfish perspective, I should have covered it up then......

£122 for Yvonne & Violets - crikey I paid that for it about 20 years ago! Has it become that unfashionable?

Hi Dave, this years Prestatyn sales area was unbelievable. More clothes and NS tat than there were records. I am not surprised people are disillusioned with it all, it's gone from an underground scene to a perfect copy of what's left of the rock n roll scene. Put any of the DJs mentioned on this thread on in your town and you'll get less through the door than you will if you book Dustbin and his Wigan roadshow, with reissues etc. Anyway all the best to Butch and Mick, whatever they decide to do.

We did this to death some years ago, if not on here on another forum. The chances of a rare soul artist getting money from a play at a rare soul venue is virtually nil. And that's if the artist is entitled to anything, they may have been paid in full for the session. You conveniently seem to forget to mention writers or copyright owners, who may well be different to the artist. The whole area is not clear as you suggest and the real likelihood is that 5c for a play of a really obscure record at a rare soul venue would end up in Madonna's fur lined trousers. To suggest otherwise suggests you do not really understand the nature of records played on the rare soul scene. We are not talking about Impressions 45s here. By it's very nature at this stage of the game anything covered up is likely to be very obscure indeed. It's different when a record is legally reissued as a 45 because the person putting it out, tracks down those that own the rights to the music (be it artist or otherwise) and pay them. Here too they don't neccesarily pay the artist. And it again gets murkier when you get into compilation CDs. Let's look at a simple case in point. A double CD of Dore rercords, let's assume it was legal. Do you honestly think the 60 or so artists on that compilation got anything for their record being included on the CD? Of course they didn't - the company that put it out, paid for the rights to the tracks from the copyright owner. I bet even the Whispers didn't get paid, let alone someone like Ray Marchant. Rather than lecturing Chalky and I about your perception of our lack of respect for artists, something you know nothing about since you don't know us, please do yourself and everyone else a favour by actually taking a bit of time to actually understand both the music business, and the rare soul scene, rather than pontificating hypotheticals and spouting nonsense from your armchair. And the irony of your "cover up" name on here is not lost on me either And then please find me these artists who have lost out as a result of "cover ups".

........And on the "Was my record good" front, Little Richard described his O'Keh recordings as "the worst he'd ever made" rather shockingly, and Betty Lavette hates her northern stuff apparantly. It is absolutely done for the DJs benefit, said it before and I'll say it again - to get some longevity out of the digging, research, hassle, buying cost whatever around a rare 45. Yes I used to insist Guy H only review uncovered records in Blackbeat - it lead to a regular flow of "uncovering", including things like Casanova Bennett. But the scene then was very different in the Stafford days and there were plenty of new unplayed and relatively undiscovered things, so Guy for example could keep turning them over. Not the same today, there is not an endless supply of unknown records.....and the prices for genuine unknowns are not cheap (I am not talking here about 3rd division cover ups). Steve

JJ, Don't know if you are just trying to be provocative or teasing.....Anyway you know full well that the PRS do not track down some ailing artist in Compton and give him 5c every time his / her record is played at a northern venue. The money they raise through playlists goes to the Top 40 artists like Lily Alan and Lady Gaga, producers, writers and copyright owners. And who says the artist is entitled to anything anyway? Most were paid a flat fee for recording and many at the obscurer end didn't even know their music came out. If anyone is losing out it is invariably the copyright owner, if such can be traced. Let's not try and pretend the record biz in the USA is anything other than deeply murky and full of con artists, and always has been. Might be an idea for the purists to list out some artists who have lost out financially as a result of cover ups, rather than all this hypothetical speculation. Then compile a list of artists who have lost out as a result of bootlegging, then decide where to aim your bricks and stones!

Strewth! This was done in 2005 ish from memory. As others say nothing like the orignal.

After an absence of over 10 years, here is my Downbeat playlist from Saturday. Thanks to Bri & Co for having us guest.....loved playing some tunes that I never get a chance to play elsewhere, anywhere.....Steve Herman Kelly "Let's get together" (RCA) D J Rogers "It's all over" (Shelter) Ed Robinson "Ivory" (Atco) Peggy Scott "Nobody's gonna love your Mama" (Atco) Jimmy Church "Shadow of another mans love" (Peachtree) Means of Persuasion "One way street" (C&J) Jeter Davis "Where ever you are"(Sun Belt) Harvey Scales "Welcome home" (Magic Touch) Rhythm Machine "Whatcha gonna do" (Rodan) Skeeter Campbell "All this love that I'm giving" (Audiotronics) Small Society feat William Bollinger "Just loving you" (Cadde) Sy Hightower "I've been thinkin" (Unissued) Soul 3 "Perfect Love" (Mercury Sound) Sam Dees "I found love in my own backyard" (Chess unissued) Floyd Beck "Ready for Heartbreak" (Atlantic) Jokers Wylde "Very special love" (Gold Spill) John Edwards "Loneliest house on the street" (Aware unissued) Jewel Bass "All good things must come to an end" (Malaco)

Yes an elongated version of Welcome Home....Fabulous.....

...and that's the point I was trying to make; you have put it much better than I could. Also with a cover up the DJ actually "breaks" something new rather than another spin of the wheel for the Mel Britt-ometer. If you had invested the time and effort in doing all that, then why not get something back for your effort. In fairness Adam, I think this is always something that is challenged outside of rare soul circles.

AGreed

Yes a number especially on the 70s / 80s front......

Russ, We are not disagreeing on cover ups, I was just saying that DJs do it for their own purposes and let's not pretend otherwise. Personally I do not feel any guilt about doing it. But in fact cover ups sometimes has the opposite effect. I can think of examples where someone rushes up and asks what something is - it's a real title - they go away thinking they'll look for that / onto the wants list / google /ebay / chat to mates do they know it? etc. Tell em it's a cover up and they walk away dissapointed and dis-interested. I have seen that happen as well. Anyway long live the cover up!

As someone who has a few cover up's I say let's be honest about this. Cover ups are for the whim of the DJ. I don't buy all this "heightened public interest" malarky as soon as a record hits the decks with a paper label stuck on it. Crapola. Maybe in the 70s's that was the case, not really now. So at a local level why do I do it? - Purely selfish reasons, to keep exclusives (which I may have paid quite a lot for) for longer, and others like Uncle Sam etc. off of the scent. I also don't really buy this artist preservation stuff either - hardly any of the artists we're talking about have the records, and that's assuming that they are still both alive and friendly - two huge assumptions. Rare soul has always been about the cut and thrust of breaking new sounds and if a cover up gives a DJ more exclusivity on a sound, that's fine and part of it all. But at least be honest about the reasons for it - Russ I remember back when you first heard me play the Scott 3 out, you said you liked it, would it really have made any difference if it was covered up? A good record is a good record, sticky tape and paper or not. Mind you it is quite fun telling someone you know what their cover up is, and watching their face All part of a competitive boys and toys thing I guess!

I agree Marc, been around for ages. Flip is fabulous deep as well.....as Lotusland observes. When I collected the Magic Touch label both this and "Trying to Survive" came quite easily with a bit of searching - now the Tornadoes - that's a hard record!!!

Hi Roddy, I do have the album. "Come on in love" is the best dancer. In it's original acetate form it's actually excellent and worthy of spins. Darn it if they went and drowned out the percussion with strings on this album version .....from a time when Bazza was a poor struggling musician.....! "All in the run of a day" also got a UK release on President.

Great, will def try and make it. Is the time 12-4? Might be a bit of a rush round.....

I'd come as a punter subject to other commitments, and probably bring a couple of southern softees up with me.....

Hi Pete the delta number will confirm if you have an original or a bootleg as above. Brother Dearglove despite his wealth of knowledge has been known to get these things wrong occasionally.......Ha ha!

Love it. I did interview Cal Thomas for radio some years ago (Soul 24-7) and he gave a GREAT insight into the group and their touring round Tx. I must dig that out and republish.

I have tried it to, cleared the floor ...real 100 mph stuff.

It was a classic case of "booted too soon" - played for 2 weeks at the Casino, then the boots appeared, then dropped like a hot potato. Never had it's day, I believe the work of Soussan and some of his puppet DJs. It's a great record, and yes the Wilshire version is a great version and really hard to find, as well as being a different mix.

Also a white demo on the orig with same matrix (80929). Steve

Yes as far as I know. First became aware of it via Soul Sam playing it either off of an acetate or a white label in the mid 90s....