Winnie :-)

============= Like many, 1973 at a youth club, watched this guy dancing and just thought wow. Had already done the liking motown, so I suppose northern was a natural progression. Used to practice at home, but generally in the front room, which led to me getting smacked round the head regularly by my Mum, for breaking her knick knacks whilst doing handstands. Also got a clump when spinning, managed to get from the front room to the kitchen (they were adjoining) but came to a halt after bumping into her. Steak and kidney pie all over the floor, swiftly followed by me all over the floor clearing it up, but not before she'd given me a thick ear. Yeah they were fun days Winnie:-)

============ Salmon I agree with your points, particularly the investigating aspect and it was basically the point I made earlier. If you disregard footsee and insert A.N.Other record, if the media had become involved the result would be the same. The way the scene exploded at the time was down to people wanting to know what it was all about, as you say, some stayed, some moved onto the next fad, but because it got involved the scene became public knowledge. That led IMO to more clubs being formed, and because it had a certain kudos at the time the genre became more popular. The equation as I see it. Footsee is played on TOTP, people watch the dancers, and want to know more. The media gets hold of it, the scene explodes, lots of new people are introduced, some leave, some stay, but because of the impact of that record the scene has a solid base to build on. When the scene was on the wane (numbers wise) it was still maintained by the faithful. Fast forward early to mid 9Ts, families had grown up, those touched by the scene started to return, now 20 soul nights/nighters every Friday and Saturday. I'm not saying they're all rammed or they're to everyones musical tastes, but they are there. How many people would now be on the scene if footsee had never been released, and it hadn't have had that exposure. We give the record such a bad press, and as a track you can give it nothing else, but without it would the scene have died a death, as most youth fads do? I realise it looks like I'm trying to justify the record, but I'm not, neither am I making a claim that because of Wigan we currently have a scene, because that's not necessarily the case either. I'm just saying it's a record that caused investigation, would have quickly been disregarded, with the investigator moving on. But on discovering more soulful sounds, the investigator will have said to mates, I've discovered this scene, you must try it, he/she wouldn't have mentioned footsee, that would long have been forgotten, as is the fact that you had to know about the scene to investigate it in the first place, and thats where I think footsee had a part to play. Sorry this is a bit long winded, and repetitive, found it difficult to put into words. Winnie:-)

=============== I think the investigation argument you make is a very valid point

============= Suppose it could be regarded as the downfall, because it became public property, but on the upside a lot more people found it and are still with it now. Either way the media had a hand in it's development don't you think? Winnie:-)

============= Didn't go to Wigan in the later years, last time I went was '77, so can't comment on what damage was done musically, I'll leave that to others to either defend or acknowledge but will say. Wigan's popularity spawned a lot of other clubs possibly eager to imitate it's success or take the scene in another direction. But without the crowds which were undoubtedly swelled due to Wigan's success, would other clubs have had a clientelle. However this isn't a 'wasn't Wigan great' post or a 'footsee was the bollox' post, it's to do with the influence of the media in the success of this scene Winnie;-)

================= Firstly Russ it was in answer to Baz, because we always have newies/oldies banter, it wasn't meant to be taken too seriously Secondly, and I've asked this question before, why do people go for oldies when they want to introduce a newcomer to the scene. Are they more comfortable with them, are they genuinly better, would a newcomer 'get it' listening to an oldie rather than a newie? There must be an answer, but no one ever seems to come up with it Look through previous threads on the same subject, it always follows a similar pattern to this one Winnie:-) PS. Sorry had to take some of the emoticons out as it wouldn't let me send the message.

============ Think that point is already in evidence Andy It's the concept I'm talking about not the quality of the record, you don't like to have liked the record to recognise it's influence long term and don't have to have been to Wigan to understand it

============ Certainly wasn't extolling the virtues of the record, in fact I don't think anyone has unless I've missed a post. Don't think it was ever said either that it was responsible for getting everyone into the scene either, so maybe you've misunderstood the initial postings. I'd also argue against your last statement, people may have found the scene through footsee, but it doesn't mean their education ended there, almost all would have moved on to the more soulful sounds. Think you do them a dis-service by suggesting otherwise. As Andy M said, perhaps the more serious soulie shouldn't get involved in this one, it'd mean taking the blinkers off Winnie:-)

============ Might get a play at a Sunday all-dayer after a long weekend, in the back to your youthclub days, but other than that I haven't heard it. To be honest I wouldn't particularly want to hear it, I'm just trying to establish if it has any relevance to today's scene. Not from a musical point of view, virtually everyone's moved on, but from the perspective of introducing lots of people to northern soul, and making it fashionable. Chronologically it seems that after footsee, more people were interested in northern soul, so more clubs formulated, and the scene got visibly larger. When ever you see a top 5 worst northern records, it's almost a given that footsee will appear, but I'm starting to wonder whether we owe it a debt of gratitude. I'm not saying it ever would or should be regarded as anything but a novelty record on it's actual merits, but that the possible impact of it was that we have a thriving scene today. The main question I suppose has to be, without it, would we still have a vibrant scene nowadays? Winnie:-)

Was responsible for making me want to learn more and introduced me to Chuck Wood

=========== It didn't get me into northern either, but it is difficult to deny it's influence throughout the country. Many are still on the scene I would imagine who were inspired by that record, and of course the knock on was that northern came to the fore. Other venues opened, and the scene thrives today. Clearly many were into northern before the 'footsee' phenomenom and lots of them are around as well, but has any single record had such an influence on a scene. Those getting into the scene in the 8Ts, wouldn't give you tuppence for the record, and would probably dismiss it out of hand, but without out it, would venues have thrived, would new venues have opened up. I'm not advocating it's reactivation, I don't like it as a record, just saying maybe when we're talking about our heritage it should have a slightly higher standing Winnie:-)

Whilst most currently on the northern scene hate this record was it in part responsible for the thriving scene today? The angle I'm coming from is to do with the massive influx of soulies mid 7Ts. Whilst its truly an atrocious record, the TOTP performances must have influenced many into thinking I could dance like that, or more to the point I'd like to dance like that. Most attending nighters/soul nights in the 7Ts would soon have discarded it as a quality record of any sort, and moved onto the more soulful sounds that really make up the scene. But should it be regarded in such low esteem if it did indeed introduce so many future true soulies to the world of northern soul? Winnie:-)

============= Also heard Ady Lupton and Stuart T playing out for the first time at the dome

=============== At that time London was at the forefront of the scene IMO, there was also scenesville featuring, amongst others, Andy Rix as a resident and of course the 100 club......still the Daddy Winnie:-)

============ Probably the best soul night in the country for 3 years, they just seemed to get the balance so right. Favourite story, when Matt told me a very well known DJ wanted to play there, Matt, not sure who he was said send me a tape I'll give it a listen. This from a man who used to colour code his records because he couldn't remember if they were stompers, beat ballads etc. Greg told me he once exchanged the red and the green dots just for a bit of fun The place just had it 'going on'

================= Obvious reason why most selections are classic oldies........they're better than what's been discovered recently

========= Out on the floor springs to mind

=============== Now thats funny

Probably 'walk in my shoes', or 'tell me it's just a rumour' just to emphasise the connections between northern and the motown sound. Plus both of them are brill

Just thinking about this, unless you've been present through all the different incarnations, isn't it an impossible question to ask. I thought initially current DJs, but I don't know what the wheel and Torch DJs had to offer, and what sort of atmosphere they were able to create. Winnie:-)

============== I think the vast majority of people like the Jam, but some, myself included, can't really see what they have to do with northern soul. Read an interview with him (Manifesto I think) and I'm sure he said he'd never been to a nighter, but did like a few northern soul records, one of which I think was Time will pass you by. When they were first noticed by the public, I thought they were a punk band, only aligning themselves later to Mods, around the time quadrophenia was released. I'd left the scene by then, but did have a little look back in, and yep they were playing northern at mod nights, in amongst Kinks and the who. Honestly can't remember if they were also playing stuff by the Jam or secret affair as well. Just to ask current mods, would they expect Jam stuff to be played at mod nights, indeed is it played? Winnie:-)

=============== Does that mean they put their own interpretations dance wise to it? Cos that's something else most soulies of my era are sticklers for. Only asking cos what we do may look ok to each other, but to a youngster may look very strange, and very uniform. Winnie:-)

P.S Win how can you be a DJ 'MC' A MC or master of cermonies is usually the guy on the stage going wiggad wiggada wah...come follow me...raise your hands in the air......simon says touch your toes....ect

============== I can see what Chalky is saying Baz, you're asking for change for the long term good of the scene, but where would that leave him now? Thought the bit about 10 years at most was funny, I sort of see Chalky having his funeral service at a nighter I do agree to further the scene however, we would have to have change within the music policies, how radical that would need to be nobody can really say. Still think though that to maintain it as a 'northern' scene or even a 'rare' soul scene, youngsters in the main would have to come to us, otherwise we will end up with the "Indie rare northern scene" with special guest DJ 'MC Soulful Baz' Winnie:-)

============ To be honest I haven't got a clue who it was aimed at, I would guess us (soulies) because we would have made up the vast majority of the attendees at Prestatyn. I can actually see some logic in it, cos if we accept house/garage as part and parcel of the soul scene (not saying that will actually happen) then youngsters maybe able to do the same but in reverse. The only thing that would worry me........ are there any real examples of the youth culture of any era and their parents combining to enjoy a certain kind of music. I don't man following the 'old man' into rock and roll, or northern, I mean where a scene has been actually embraced by both generations because of universal appeal. Winnie:-)