Winnie :-)

=============== I have a friend who told me he/she wouldn't go back to some places because they play underplayed average sounding records simply to feed their own egos. As you say though, no point getting 'frumpy', each to their own.

============= Sterotypical bollox, which doesn't even make me laugh anymore. Baz, you don't even go to these sort of nights (or rarely) so how come you see so many of these people dressed up in bags and vests? One of the things that used to signify a soulie was not being judgemental, something sadly lacking in some of the younger soulies Now I guess you're going to say it was a tongue in cheek comment, but you do say it at every given opportunity, and often imply its a significant reason younger people don't get into the scene, which is also absolute tosh IMO. Winnie:-)

============== London does have a reputation for cliques, probably because they don't go outside their own comfort zone, (backdoor Kenny being a notable exception) so I wouldn't worry about it. The best way to meet people at do's is, as someone said, start a thread on here, who's going to so and so, agree it's difficult to just go up and talk to someone. In answer to your major point, of course you're important to the scene and NO you shouldn't stay out of the way and let the oldies backdrop the night away I'm intrigued as to who you are by the way, as I'm from Bedford as well. Winnie:-)

============ She sounds very high maintenance

=========== Would say much the same as others about 45

============= Certainly wouldn't describe it as a culture, cos that implies extremes to me, or a way of life. I would say its part of our social scene, but the be all and end all, not for me. If I've misunderstood the gist of your post, apologies

============ Some of us may not be around to say thanks Matthew you're 50, so thanks in advance

============= Lots of people wear football shirts casually don't they? Or have I imagined walking round town seeing Arse*nal and Man U shirts all over the place? Accept it's significant to you by the way, I was talking about the numbers you've talked to and whether them coming onto the scene would represent a marked increase in youngsters attending. Winnie:-)

============ In all honesty, me neither

============ Have PM'd you

============ It was Pete's quote, cos he'd quoted inside the box, cut and pasted it so I could include the hounds line Winnie:-)

I agree totally! terms such as 'handbag' 'educate' and 'move on' really irritate me! would love it if someone could explain to me what these terms actually mean, we are part of a predominantly middle aged activity where most venues openly advertise what to expect if you attend. If when we do attend we are less than happy with whats served up then its a free country and a fundemental human right to choose not to attend that venue again! Why do some more 'educated' soulies that have 'seen the light' and 'moved on' see it fit to openly insult anyone that doesnt follow there example? Personally i go where i like, listen to what i like and would never criticise anybody for doing likewise! Its a bloody night out so try to enjoy it instead of concerning ourselves as to why everyone doesnt have or have yet to 'learn' our tastes! There said it. Pete ============= Now you've gone and done it, they'll be releasing the hounds shortly

============== PTP, if i've misunderstood what you're saying then explain it to me please I'm not trying to misquote you or put words in your mouth. I don't wear spencers, but I do take a bag with me, with multiple shirts just like the old days, could that be responsible for putting people off going to do's. The whole concept is beyond me, and it was bought up because apparently it may stop younger people coming onto the soul scene. I'm still of the opinion that first and foremost the music is the catalyst that sparks the interest. If youngsters can't get over the odd eccentric, and lets face it most of have eccentricities, then they're not going to last? Winnie:-)

========== I find it strange that you'd consider not going somewhere cos people wearing spencers might be there. As you say, each to their own, think personally I'll stick to looking at who is DJ'n and what the music policy is

================ Who made you headmaster? I used that term in one of my posts, can you explain how it detracted from the discussion. If I agree, I'll do a 100 lines

=============== I find it amazing it would put you off of going somewhere, so the music wouldn't come first? Very strange IMO Winnie:-)

=============== Thought this was about sustaining the soul scene, there's been people who dip in and out for years. Said survey cos you said you'd spoken to a number of people which made it sound significant, but understand from what you've said now that it wasn't. Similar clothes to the pub? Football shirts, tracky bottoms pump action trainers all round then

============= They let the fashions put them off attending, hmmm potential to be true soulies then if that outweighs the music I've asked before, perhaps in your next survey you could ask these youngsters exactly what we should be wearing?

========== Yeah its Dottie and Millie

Don't usually get embroiled in these debates now, as it's mostly all been said before. Thought I'd chip in on this one though as some of it I found particularly patronising... Surely as people have wanted to try different styles of music they've set up their own gigs. If you have the courage of your convictions simply go out and "do it". Been done in the past. Being done now. The guys who mandate an "all one room policy" should step up to the plate and DO IT. We, the soulies will then decide if it's for us or not. I've been collecting over 30 years and even I sometimes feel I'm being patronised by certain posts/threads/discussions! I don't particularly like the majority Modden Soul, House, Garage, Disco, Tent, or whatever the latest terminology is for the style that more commonly "blisters" itself on to Northern gigs cos it isn't self sustaining, but surely that's my choice. I'm nearly 50....I don't need edjumacating from peeps who consider them selves more "soulful" than me. I would suggest that the people clamouring for the "new blood" are the very same people who turn youngsters off with their "I know best, and you're all behind the times" attitude. It turns ME off...and I've been here 30 years! I have a number of friends who collect, follow, lead, run gigs, etc that are in their mid 20s. I never sought them out, changed my clothes to fit in with them, shaved my tache off, advised them to listen to certain records, etc. What I did do however, was treat them with the respect that I would treat anyone else, irrespective of age, or background on "the scene". The one thing that's different on the overseas "soul scenes" is a lack of people trying to ram their preferences down other people's throats. The younger element here in the States know what they like, they don't old gimps like me trying to "teach them" for Fcuk Sakes. They say that "familiarity breeds contempt". You have no idea how lucky you are in UK to have all this on your doorstep, venues galore, withing easy travelling distance, top class collectors spinning top class 45s week in, week out. In my opinion, the very people who are contstantly questioning the "future" of Rare/Northern soul are the very same ones who will eventually damage it so much it will simply fragment and disappear as a "scene". The one thing that will never disappear however will be "The Record Collector"...now there's a different topic! Regards, Dave www.theresthatbeat.com www.hitsvillesoulclub.com So dave You clearly think that venues like Stafford, Lifeline, Bretby, Soul Essence, and The Orwell, That set out to look for no-yet played records have damaged the scene. They were not set up to preach but to find and bring records to peoples attention and for record collectors to collect. People sit on here all day complaining about poor turn out at venues, or boring playlist and DJ's. Then when someone suggest change, everyone goes into melt down. You can't win, I give up ============ I think Dave Moore does make some valid points though. Don't you get frustrated when someone tells you John Legend isn't soulful simply because he doesn't fit their particular criteria? If I like something and think it's soulful, I get fed up reading the "Oh no it isn't posts", because they come across as "I know considerably more than you". Maybe these are the people that need to take the blinkers off. Same as the "They wear funny trousers, so youngsters won't come to the venues" Posts. What difference do the clothes make? And just what should we wear so that we're accepted by the younger element. I go to venues and people wear trainers, not traditionally associated with the scene because they're not great to dance in, but I guess they look fashionable and get you instant respect should a youngster walk by. Add that to a greeting of "Yo yo yo yo yo, waaaasssssuuuuuppppp" and we're well in I think Mark B and many others have said it many times, it's the music ultimately that should and will move you, spend your time playing Trinny and Susanah and you're missing the point IMO. Winnie:-)

================== But where would they play the records, at an established venue, a brand new one? Wouldn't the same problem of being somewhere where people as old as your dad were still raise it's head. Just asking, not criticising, personally wouldn't mind, but feel younger DJs would face influences to play certain styles?

============= Should have actually added on the end of the post, I don't think the accept option is the right one. An open minded approach is whats required. Don't envisage a lot of bastille storming, cos that might mean making the attraction of youngblood the main priority, which in turn would mean getting rid of ALL the preconceptions, can't really see that happening......can you??

============ Aren't you contradicting yourself here?

==========