Winnie :-)

Incredibly sad news, RIP Simon Winston

================ Ok mate, got what you're saying now

============ As Dave pointed out in an earlier post in this thread, all nights are local to someone, are you talking about an specific area, or generally the smaller local venues all over the country? Just a question, not intending to start a Northants argument again.

=========== Its my pleasure to brighten up your day Hammy Unfortunately to repetitively try to clarify things doesn't do it for everybody. But I am going to explain dance floor concensus as I see it. In a hypothetical situation, you are the DJ, you play a record which by your own admission in an earlier post, you love, and nobody dances, then clearly it hasn't gone down well. You DJ again, and try the record again, and again it flops, maybe the concensus is telling you something. Now if you play it at a forward thinking venue you may get the complete opposite reaction, but that doesn't mean its right for the scene as a whole. It also doesn't mean its a crap record, this scene like it or not is governed by personal taste, but everybody has to be big enough to recognise that, and not just put it down to punters being uneducated, or stuck in their ways. Mello souls for instance, has everything any northern soul fan would want and fits in perfectly whether you're an oldies fan or a newies fan. "The feeling is real" on the other hand, may not appeal to both sets of fans as it doesn't have the same impact IMO. I think this has to be taken into account, because as you admirably said in one of your replies, everyones enjoyment should be important, chinstrokers, and dancers alike. Its clear from your post that you're not impressed with fans who like the same '200 records', because otherwise why would you equate them with people who listen to ad jingles. I think you do them a dis-service, play them Margaret Little, play them Mello souls, they'd dance because the records fit the bill. Its about perceptions, they (I'll include myself) know what does it for them it doesn't mean we like the music any less than you, it just means we know the direction we want the music (as a dance floor based thing) to go. I've lost track of how many times this subject has come up, somebody mentioned 'groundhog', think thats about right, it never seems to go away, but if we're all able to accept other views perhaps it would. My counterargument re: CDs was not saying CDs should be played carte blanche at all venues, I was saying if a track wasn't available on another format, then personally I think its ok. Nothing sinister in that as far as I can see? I think its clear from which side of things we both come, so continuing this debate between ourselves must be very boring to most, so will attempt to make this my last posting specifically to you.

============= I do have a bias toward the dance floor, and you find that odd, why's that then?? Ultimately I trust the collective viewpoint of any given track over that of the individual, who is basically promoting his/her own taste, whereas the dance floor reflects an concensus. I do recognise people enjoy the scene in different ways and have no problem with that providing there is emphasis on the word 'enjoy'. Take your point that a lot of times there may be a more "legit" format to play something off than CD, just think its a very rigid view which IMO could stop the scene progressing. The beauty of the scene is that people can hold differing views and not lose any sleep because of them, at least in most cases Winnie:-)

============= Have removed from my post as well

========== Hammy, You've lost me a bit with all this studio acetate stuff. If a track is only available on CD should it be overlooked by the rare soul scene until such times at its released onto vinyl? Winnie:-)

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============ But if they're not on vinyl and the fit the bill, how do you go about playing them? Should they never ever be played, wouldn't that be a backward step? Winnie:-)

================= Probably have danced to records pitched up, I don't check the decks before I start dancing I've accepted that some don't like the term tailor made, but nonsense? Does pitching up or down actually change the sound/tempo of the record? A simple yes or no would be great Its not about robbing the artist of glory, its about making something fit tempo wise, by altering it. Was the Harold Melvin ...... house for sale created through pitching?

========== Davie, I fail to see how its a contentious statement. Tailor made to me means making something to fit a specific target. Given the choice, I'd prefer to hear a record the way it was meant to sound when it was released, whats nonsensical about that? I clearly said it was a personal viewpoint. If you don't like the term 'tailor made' for some reason (not sure what) then use another one to describe what changing a sound to fit the dancefloor is. Winnie:-)

=================== I'm sure he or you don't care, whereas I hang on both your every words ...... Still not sure why you thought he'd want you to put it up.......... unless of course he really does care??

============ Dave, Nonsense is something that just isn't true, so if you're telling me that pitching a record up doesn't change it, I'll stand corrected. If however it does change a record, I'll treat your post with the disdain it deserves. If you can't accept someone can't have an opinion different to your own, then you're really a very blinkered person. As for having a pop at the new and underplayed ethic, get a grip, I'm in modern rooms at most events that have them, went to virtually every dome, scenesville, went to the 100 about 40/50 times in succession, done lifeline etc etc etc. I stand by oldies etc cos I still love them, but not to the extent that I only ever champion them. Winnie:-)

============ It would apply to all records not just new stuff, just wasn't aware it was done as much with the old classics? I'm surprised you can't see what I'm saying, or maybe its just you don't agree? If a record is being played as a 'newie', then IMO it should be played exactly as its meant to be. Then if its accepted, its been done so on its merits. If the same track has to be tweaked for acceptance, to me it says the DJ knows that in reality it wouldn't cut the mustard when played normally. Hence I used the term tailor made, because said DJ is changing the record to suit. I'm not going to labour the point, as you said in the other thread, its each to their own opinion, I just feel that its mis-representing the record, so as to achieve/increase a popularity it may not otherwise have had. Winnie:-)

============ Yep totally agree with that, just down to personal opinion as always

========== So in effect are DJ's making their own tailor mades then? Do you not think it gives the impression that they're not actually convinced in the track they're playing if they're pitching it up? Would it not also bring into question the whole new and underplayed ethic if records were being pitched up so that they suited? Don't get me wrong, I'm all for playing new stuff, but surely the record should stand on its own merits, rather than having to be tweaked? Winnie:-)

============= So, if its 'each to their own', nothing really wrong with not wanting to travel and wanting to hear new stuff Would you jock alongside a DJ playing CDs or boots or go to an night if boots etc were being played?

=============== You don't think its mis-representative of the actual record being played then? No I don't think cover ups come into the same category, unless of course the tempo of the record was being tweaked. Are most punters aware that this practice goes on? I mean can someone truly say we're listening to fresh rare stuff, if the record has been pitched up, or are we listening to something that wouldn't make the grade if played normally. Sounds like DJ's are making their own 'ready mades'?

=========== Yeah, a way of hearing rare stuff for those who can't be bothered to travel, is there something wrong with that then?? Couldn't care less what format is used in general Dave, I'm a dancer not a judge. Locally means local to me, a small soul night as opposed to one of the larger well attended venues. How anti other formats are you, where do you set your own standards??

=========== Why not buy something that is dance floor friendly in the first place? Isn't it a way of tricking your audience into liking something that isn't actually what it seems? Should the DJ tell the audience he/she has pitched up a tune? Winnie:-)

============ Impossible in the context of wanting to play something different and it's very costly or rare, and the DJ's owning them are guesting elsewhere. If a local DJ is happy to play within his/her box and its played out stuff, they run the risk of being criticised for not being adventurous enough. My view is, I'm just as entitled to hear new stuff as anyone else, if it has to be played on a different format, other than OVO, I'm ok with it (locally) because its still bringing quality to the masses. I know I could travel more, but I just don't want to at the moment.

============

Replied to Dave's post before I read your reply Bazza, soz mate, and take your point

=========== Sometimes I think you're as cynical as I am

============ Personally wouldn't have any problems with the above, very unlikely scenario, but in the interests of furtherance of the scene..........