Winnie :-)

What I was saying was he wouldn't be duty bound to play it, whereas if it hadn't been played, then he may have felt obliged, despite really wanting to play something else. It's all hypothetical Kev, Kenny guested quite a lot round my way at local nights, and you could see people waiting to pay homage to 'Do I love you', but I never thought it was particularly to the record itself, more to the fact that everyone knows this is rare and that Kenny had the original. The question I was posing was did the venue/location limit what Kenny could play, so yes if someone plays it off a boot, even though he might be annoyed, does it open up his options to play something different. I realise there is a very simple answer, but then there's no discussion, and as the test match doesn't start till tomorrow...........

We should all post openly and without fear on any or all of the forums, no one opinion is more important than anyone elses, as you quite rightly point out ramming things down people's throats usually has a reverse affect. Multiple thousands of posters on SS, hopefully they all feel they can post without fear of being judged

In an ideal world, I think you're right, the original being played would be the preferable choice, but the type of event would have to be taken into consideration. There are generally speaking a couple of ways of looking at the northern scene, There is the taking it as a whole, or alternatively the scene within a scene, both options require different elements to make them successful. If you take the first option, a large percentage aren't overly worried about format or authenticity, their main priority is to dance and socialise, to walk to the decks to check a records 'real' just isn't going to happen. The second option takes a more purist point of view, they still want to dance, but want to be assured in effect that they're not cheating their principles, I would say they also have more of a fascination with the records history, so an original is a thing of beauty and to be revered. Maybe in the second example the attendee could be considered more collector and historian than dancer, note I've said maybe Now if you're at a local soul night, type 2 C&H, probably won't be there in abundance, so type 1 D&S (dancer and socialiser) holds sway. So at the local soul nights, the playing of pressings, wouldn't be as big a deal. Now say you've got a guest at this local night, and for argument's sake we'll say Kenny Burrell, I know Kenny's not really part of the scene, but I have a point I'll eventually get to regarding his set If you're promoting a local soul night and you've booked Kenny, there is/was a reason, presumably said promoter has an idea of what Kenny might play, so would speak to the local lads and ask them not to play a pressing of something Kenny might have with him. So all's gone swimmingly, the local DJ's have avoided the playing of Do I love you, so now the punters are waiting for Kenny. Now to this other point, is Kenny now duty bound to play 'Do I love you', 'We can make it' his alternative take of 'world of happiness', 'man o man' etc. Has his choice now been taken away from him for the benefit of the punters. The point I'm making here, and I'm not advocating playing pressings, but when Kenny was guesting somewhere most weeks, the expectancy levels that he'd play his 'big' records was through the roof, whilst intitially the adulation that accompanies that would be intoxicating, would it not eventually get boring? If one of the local DJs had played Walter, then Kenny's choice to play something different would have improved. If Kenny was at a more purist orientated soul night/nighter, the emphasis wouldn't necessarily be on his 'big' records, but would they still be welcomed if he did play them, but more importantly would the purist want to hear them, or is it more important to keep moving forward, and put these bigger records to one side to be played now, only to the D&S? I'm not asking this specifically of you Charlie, it's just a discussion point on a wet wednesday afternoon Winnie

Ok in the interest of debate, on what grounds?? If you've never owned, played, danced, been in a room where they have been played, I can see you might have some justification, but if you've done any of the previous highlighted it would seem a little hypocritical. Most people eventually come to the conclusion they want to own originals etc, but that's over a period of time, if you think ridiculing or attacking someone is the only way to get your point of view across, you're living in another era, the cane has been outlawed. Winnie .

One post unapproved, Trev, Steve is answering politely, I'd ask you do the same please. Thanks Winnie

Len if I said it, I probably read it or heard it somewhere, let someone else have it as there epitaph bud

'' I said oops upside ya head, I said oops upside ya head...........''

If it can be found and don't ask me to cos I'm rubbish at it, I would ask that it's OTO original thread only....... I'll also add I don't remember the incident Len, so won't lay claim to it

I like it, not keen on the harmonies mind, but within the context of the thread, isn't it just the unlucky one that was put in the spotlight by Ian?

Not easy to really answer your question though as you don't tell us where you have had these experiences, some folk have an experience at certain local nights and have not been to other places, they then right a statement about the scene , as i have said before, the scene is not just at the bottom of the garden, if thats the as far as some folk like to go then no problem but with a sweeping answer you will get some sweeping statements that don't mean much at all...

last post unapproved, Beeks take it to PMs if you want to row with somebody please. Thanks Winnie

JF was early 8Ts I think, so I stand corrected

Were they before Jose Feliciano then?

But would you rule out everything contemporary regardless? First bit of your comment, spot on IMO

Chalks I'm not advocating commercial stuff, per se, just that the quality of a record can't be judged on chart success alone. Very occasionally the public might like something we like, anyway it's only a discussion, couldn't have one without differing opinions

I don't think there's too much distress exhibited within the thread, pretty civilised from what I've read, differing opinions yes, but all discussed in the best possible taste

You've pinned me there Steve I know a bit of funk has crossed the divide, and I actually like it, I'm not arguing against it, all I'm saying is we can't have our cake and eat it. To be taken seriously as a progressive music scene, nothing should be ruled in, or out except on grounds of quality. Whatever happened to all those 'how do we attract new blood to the scene' threads that were so popular all those years ago

Are people championing Cee Lo, or just using him as an example, or a preference to funk. I take Chalky's point and your own re: underplayed records, it's an undeniable truth bit if ever the scene is to truly get to a definition of 'across the board', that's accurate it has to slacken the rope. IMO. It's already been loosened, with funk coming under the umbrella, what's so different about looking at contemporary artists if they have quality? It's generally accepted that Butch and Andy D have great taste, if they heard something 'of today' they liked and felt it fitted, would they not play it?

Sam was playing DJ Genesis, it was played all over the scene, as was Angie Stone? They were pretty impossible to avoid at the time, and I'd be amazed if we weren't in the same room at some time or other when both were played?

Chalks you're missing the point, you cannot set boundaries if you want to maintain a progressive environment and I don't think its a realistic argument to rubbish something just because it charted. When you set limits, all those underplayed tunes will eventually have been played, granted that will take some time, but that is the reality eventually, then the scene stagnates and just becomes a part of the 'retro' scene you're hoping to avoid.

Chalky leaving aside Cee Lo for a moment, if the soul scene is claiming to be a progressive one, then all avenues have to be explored. A record doesn't become unsoulful because it has charted, that creates boundaries, and if the stalwarts on the scene truly see it as a forward thinking movement then the only criteria should be quality, not era.

I'm glad you're wah wah is intact Dave's played me a few bits and pieces and I've liked all of them. I can see what Ian's talking about in the traditional sense of the word, but I'm also liking the stuff Dave's been treating me too. I liked that black aces record, except for the harmonies, just didn't think they were strong enough, but that's only my opinion

I've read Karen's page, she creams her pants as soon as someone touches a wah wah pedal Gotta say I'm more convinced by the funk argument at the moment, where's my CDs Dabott x

2 posts unapproved, Gene, Jock, take it to PM please. Keep things civil please Cheers Win

Gene, can you let the mods deal with it please, thank you. Winnie