Winnie :-)

What makes a good dancer great? For me it's just seeing someone hitting every beat at the right time, being able to spin or perform acrobatics doesn't necessarily make you a great dancer. This topic has been done many times before, and I'll say what I said then, most of the best dancers are girls, much better natural sense of rhythm, generally speaking. Winnie

previous thread just sent to me, so closing this one.

It's fairly well documented that Ian Levine went to America and discovered many records, but who were the others that fed the Casino/Stafford/Yate etc. First and foremost I've always considered myself a dancer, not really thought too much about who I should be indebted to, but am now starting to think along the lines the 'Trailblazers' should have more recognition. If the topic has been done before, could somebody could point me toward it, happy to close this and read previous threads. Winnie

Gotta be impressed with this as a topic, Kev's finally found something we can't have any arguments on

Early memory for me was the last time I went to the casino, which was a couple of weeks before the anniversary in 77, I promised my intended that I'd stop 'the madness'. The coach left St Peters in Bedford and then it was just long buzz. When we got there I did all the things romanticised in all the books, threw my bag down on the floor, started dancing, have no idea what to, and continued virtually the whole night, didn't talk to anybody just danced. Great memories over the last decade or so, the Dome, scenesville, These Old Shoes, the 100, early lifelines at Sheridans. A few records stand out for me, hearing Andy Rix at Kempston Rovers play 'world of happiness', couldn't get over how good it was, still can't. Hearing Ady C play 'Gettin to me', at the 100. The last one was during an all dayer at the Locarno a few years ago, Chalky was playing in the slightly smaller room and he put on Jean Wells, 'with my love', I think it was the first time I'd ever gone up to the DJ and said what was that (not the sort of thing I did/do) stunning record. Of live acts, The Dells at Trentham, Barbara Lynn at the Cala Gran, Steve Mancha and the Contours at Q11 nighter in Brum. As has already been said too many to list

Have to concede the argument re: date rape drugs is a valid one, and not something I'd considered even though I've told my own daughter to keep her drink with her

I think Chalks said something very relevant Mike about people not wanting to travel. You used to go to the Dome and Scenesville, quite a lot of younger people there, same as the 100, but did they go outside of London, as a general rule? One of the other things that has come up before, youngsters not actually dancing northern, is that acceptable? I'm asking that cos if you're dancing next to someone who's wandering about, rather than dancing, beer in hand are you thinking, please don't invade my bit of dancefloor, or are you thinking, never mind, he/she is the future of northern, so it's ok?

I think you've pretty much answered your own question Steve, what young people want to mix with old, they surely want to create their own niche, not hang on an older generations coat tails. Politics and yesteryear, would have an influence on their decision IMO to join us, if they actually were joining us. On the plus side, some of the funkier stuff being played may attract them, but I would think they'd set up their own venues to listen/dance/play it. Winnie

People buy bootlegs because they want to have a certain record and can't afford an original. As long as they're not DJ'ing with it, I can't really see why anybody would have a problem with that, which always ends up the crux of these debates. A collector/OVO DJ isn't just looking for things he/she likes, they're experimenting listening to things they don't know, trying to find out if they think they're suitable. A pressing collector is in some small way sticking with the ''vinyl'' ethic of the scene, but only buying stuff he or she likes, and for their own entertainment.

well she wasn't a reggae singer

Right, just to clear things up, in post 37 I mentioned Janis Joplin as soulful IMO. Presuming Tony has read the whole thread, when he says ''Anyone............ashamed etc'', that is also aimed at me, hence me replying to him. I didn't rubbish his opinion I contested it, which I think I'm perfectly entitled to do as a member of SS

Of course Tony is entitled to give his opinion, didn't I say that in the previous post I made on the topic? But why should I hang my head in shame because I see things differently to him? '' Nah Tony, the people who should be ashamed of themselves are those that put forward an opinion as the difinitive answer. It's almost as though you're saying, ''we've had enough of that malarkey''. I happen to think she's soulful, I like the passion, the raw power and emotion she put into her singing, they're all qualities that move me, if you don't feel them, that's ok with me, I'm not going to try and convert you, but I'm also not going to think something different just because you say so Don't feel the need to put up a rant smiley, but please feel free to add some more yourself if you can be asked to reply, for greater emphasis You're probably better off, writing me off as soulless, it'll probably make you feel better and save your typing finger''

He's hardly being lambasted is he, it's simply a difference of opinion, which if you read his post, implies if I or anyone else doesn't agree with him we should hang our heads?? The essence of soul source is to enjoy it and maybe get a bit of an education along the way, rubbishing someone's views, isn't in my personal opinion a great assist............

Nah Tony, the people who should be ashamed of themselves are those that put forward an opinion as the difinitive answer. It's almost as though you're saying, ''we've had enough of that malarkey''. I happen to think she's soulful, I like the passion, the raw power and emotion she put into her singing, they're all qualities that move me, if you don't feel them, that's ok with me, I'm not going to try and convert you, but I'm also not going to think something different just because you say so Don't feel the need to put up a rant smiley, but please feel free to add some more yourself if you can be asked to reply, for greater emphasis You're probably better off, writing me off as soulless, it'll probably make you feel better and save your typing finger Winnie

Clearly the majority of people don't care or this, and other threads would be inundated with counter arguments, from a completely different perspective. Neither side is ever going to convince the other, although one side will continue to try, whilst the other will just carry on enjoying the music and the scene in general, taking from it what they want. Winnie

reggae can be soulful as can Janis Joplin, Joe Cocker and countless others, but they're not northern and that's what I would want to hear at an northern nighter. Winnie ;)

Keb used to do funk nights in London, not sure if he still does, Madam JoJo's I think it was.

plastic sandals and wedge haircut optional? Karen, I'm just listening to the CD Dave sent me, really enjoying it, but a whole night of it? The flyer would have to be very specific and IMO couldn't include the word northern. The Milton Floyd track you've put up, fits to me, but you have to bear in mind my ears are completely uneducated to this sort of stuff

I used to sometimes go to the Calais in Dunstable, downstairs they had a room called the 'Devil's Den', the kind of funk played there was definitely what's been played on the northern scene. In the 7Ts when the two scenes were entirely seperate, would Frankie Crocker have been played at a funk event, certainly never heard it at the Calais, perhaps that's why in the 7Ts we didn't know it was funky, because it wasn't?

I don't get that, why's it run it's course, you may have no interest in it, but its like the tele surely, you just switch channels, why stifle debate? Winnie

What I was saying was he wouldn't be duty bound to play it, whereas if it hadn't been played, then he may have felt obliged, despite really wanting to play something else. It's all hypothetical Kev, Kenny guested quite a lot round my way at local nights, and you could see people waiting to pay homage to 'Do I love you', but I never thought it was particularly to the record itself, more to the fact that everyone knows this is rare and that Kenny had the original. The question I was posing was did the venue/location limit what Kenny could play, so yes if someone plays it off a boot, even though he might be annoyed, does it open up his options to play something different. I realise there is a very simple answer, but then there's no discussion, and as the test match doesn't start till tomorrow...........

We should all post openly and without fear on any or all of the forums, no one opinion is more important than anyone elses, as you quite rightly point out ramming things down people's throats usually has a reverse affect. Multiple thousands of posters on SS, hopefully they all feel they can post without fear of being judged

In an ideal world, I think you're right, the original being played would be the preferable choice, but the type of event would have to be taken into consideration. There are generally speaking a couple of ways of looking at the northern scene, There is the taking it as a whole, or alternatively the scene within a scene, both options require different elements to make them successful. If you take the first option, a large percentage aren't overly worried about format or authenticity, their main priority is to dance and socialise, to walk to the decks to check a records 'real' just isn't going to happen. The second option takes a more purist point of view, they still want to dance, but want to be assured in effect that they're not cheating their principles, I would say they also have more of a fascination with the records history, so an original is a thing of beauty and to be revered. Maybe in the second example the attendee could be considered more collector and historian than dancer, note I've said maybe Now if you're at a local soul night, type 2 C&H, probably won't be there in abundance, so type 1 D&S (dancer and socialiser) holds sway. So at the local soul nights, the playing of pressings, wouldn't be as big a deal. Now say you've got a guest at this local night, and for argument's sake we'll say Kenny Burrell, I know Kenny's not really part of the scene, but I have a point I'll eventually get to regarding his set If you're promoting a local soul night and you've booked Kenny, there is/was a reason, presumably said promoter has an idea of what Kenny might play, so would speak to the local lads and ask them not to play a pressing of something Kenny might have with him. So all's gone swimmingly, the local DJ's have avoided the playing of Do I love you, so now the punters are waiting for Kenny. Now to this other point, is Kenny now duty bound to play 'Do I love you', 'We can make it' his alternative take of 'world of happiness', 'man o man' etc. Has his choice now been taken away from him for the benefit of the punters. The point I'm making here, and I'm not advocating playing pressings, but when Kenny was guesting somewhere most weeks, the expectancy levels that he'd play his 'big' records was through the roof, whilst intitially the adulation that accompanies that would be intoxicating, would it not eventually get boring? If one of the local DJs had played Walter, then Kenny's choice to play something different would have improved. If Kenny was at a more purist orientated soul night/nighter, the emphasis wouldn't necessarily be on his 'big' records, but would they still be welcomed if he did play them, but more importantly would the purist want to hear them, or is it more important to keep moving forward, and put these bigger records to one side to be played now, only to the D&S? I'm not asking this specifically of you Charlie, it's just a discussion point on a wet wednesday afternoon Winnie

Ok in the interest of debate, on what grounds?? If you've never owned, played, danced, been in a room where they have been played, I can see you might have some justification, but if you've done any of the previous highlighted it would seem a little hypocritical. Most people eventually come to the conclusion they want to own originals etc, but that's over a period of time, if you think ridiculing or attacking someone is the only way to get your point of view across, you're living in another era, the cane has been outlawed. Winnie .

One post unapproved, Trev, Steve is answering politely, I'd ask you do the same please. Thanks Winnie