Tlscapital

OK different mix/mastering jobs then. My bad. But significantly different enough for me to be noticed for tunes that I'm not that found of. For somer reasons I seem to remember them being different takes for the little attention I paid once in comparison. But this makes better sense and follows what I heard with the Gino Washington mastering/mix difference. Guess we could expect something similar with Jim McFarland...

Nice. Thanks for sharing that. Lovely. Now would anyone know (or you Richard) if the take is the same or not ? Like for instance the Sunny and the Sunliners 'should I take you home' b/w 'if I could see you now' that was first released on Key-Lock is all together another take than the one released later on RPR. Where the Gino Washington 'I'll be around' b/w 'like my baby' on Atac (distributed by RPR) features the same takes as the local Atac release but with an overkill smoothened remix and a cut-off of the "staccato" guitar never ending intro on the 'I'll be around side'... Leaving me to wonder now on this Jim McFarland...

You've blessed us with a sublime strings of Look 45's loaded with SOUL Mister Chavez. Just flipped them through over earlier on... Without knowing of your passing then. RIP +

The baritone sax on 'she never loved me' (not on 'it's better to cry' true !) is 'pumping' groin-groin in the backing track following the drum roll tempo. The whole musical arrangement does sound Detroit like. At least it's a wannabe just as Willie Mitchell wanted it to be.

Exactly. Well the baritone sax break by Willie immitating Mike is a possibility at least... This while Willie was catching on the Detroit Sound in Detroit. As he was involved with this group following session as producer.

Although I love the record exactly for those reasons ; for it's brute, raw, un-precise and vigorous rendition so nothing clean, swift and tight like the Funk Brothers were or even like both their following releases on Sport. Like you to my ears it never sounded like Mike on this Aware baritone sax break. Nor as you precisely point out where at this stage in his career Mike was not only involved in such projects beyond his sole sax blow. Evidently time and old age play it's part but that 'list' is another lead going against that theory until a better argument comes along to counter these elements and different opinions on the matter if it were to be.

The 2 green styrene pressings are the firsts self distributed pressings ('Shelley' pressing plant and 'promo' copy Monarch pressing plant ?) then came the vinyl Atco Distributed variants with the green stocker and white promo SP (Speciality pressing plant) and the orange and white promo PL (Plastic pressing plant). Then later the Atco group reissued the PL orange pressing by 1972 or 1973. The green vinyl pressings is a later bootleg sounding like crap. Then much later it was officially re-issued on a green label with a fair but digitalized re-mastering... Hence why the orange first re-issue is the best way to obtain it below £100...

You might want to specify the first 1967 orange pressing or the 1972/1973 official re-issue one. Price difference should greatly affect the choice there if ever...

By that title's I'd haver thought more of a seventies liberal teenage bedroom poster's freebasing topic 😉

ABC subsidiary.

Likely at ABC these were pressed in such great quantities at one time (just like Verve and M-G-M at one time) that they had overstocks of their own (not even gone to the record store's racks) that at ABC (only seen ABC's & Co. with those) instead of 'hole drill' them they marked them with such gold paint to offer them on 'sales' and never to be refunded if ever...

Interesting. So could the Calla release of Doris be some sort of 'rush' release ? With no material to toss on the flip Doris unearthed her previous UK recording 'heartaches' to which she had some rights as co-composer and tossed it on the Calla flip without the necessary scrutiny for the arrangement and production credits there...

Now on trying to double check the UK Cameo-Parkway date of release for Doris Troy on its supposed date of release of February 1966 it could actually be subjected to revision. The maybe fooling stamp featured on the promo here could be misleading to set it's real date of release by late 1966 more likely. As Jarry Jackson's previous release on UK Cameo-Parkway 100 was seemingly released in October 1966 and the following catalog number Terry Knight & the Pack on UK Cameo-Parkway 102 by January 1967. Leaving us to consider Doris Troy's UK Cameo-Parkway 101 between October 1966 and January 1967. Meaning that the USA Calla predates the UK release by more than 6 months. Fixing that oddity factor. Leaving the Publishing Copyrights changes between the promo and UK stocker less relevant to this quest if ever. Still begging the question as to why the Kenny Gamble credits for 'Heartaches' on Calla then.

That sorts that out. Great job thanks. Well for a British recording 'heartaches' sounds rather convincing. Now remains the question as to why releasing 'I'll Do Anything' first in the UK 2 months prior than in the USA. With the Publishing Rights changes from the UK promo (same as the Calla) to the 'stocker' release. Anyone ? First release on UK Atlantic Tommy Sanderson (T.S. Music) & 'Premier' on USA Calla. Would Kenny Gamble cheat on that ? Or would he have been "fooled" by Doris herself ? Then UK Cameo-Parkway promo 'BLOCK BUSTER' & UK stocker 'MECOLICO'... Why ? The USA Calla side of 'Ill Do Anything' also credits 'Block Buster' for copyright Publisher. Flips of the UK's the promo bares the USA 'Premier' Publishing Co. but not the stocker.. FWIW that 'MECOLICO' publishing "company" if ever pops up as some old, troublesome or 'deleted' M.C.P.S. subsidiary... Smells 'fishy'. Licence deal issues maybe ? Or what ?

Something that somehow always eluded me about these sessions of hers ; Doris Troy adulated status in the UK from 1963 onward allowed her to record in the UK by mid 1965. Giving 'you'd better stop' backed with the British band Fleur De Lys for Atlantic UK. The initial 'A' side of that single released in June 1965 'Heartaches' never sounded that much of a UK recording to me. Anyone knows for fact if this was a UK recording ? It also received a USA release on the flip of her Calla 45 from May 1966... Almost a year later. Apparently her UK Cameo-Parkway of 'I'll Do Anything' was released as soon as February 1966. Meaning that if that is the case then it was released one month before its USA Calla half counterpart. Half counterpart since both presses got totally different flip-sides. Both these UK and USA contemporary releases of 'I'll Do Anything' also do bear different Publishing Companies too. And the UK release got her fabulous 'But I Love Him' as 'B' side. A tune that sounds like a USA recording to me. Is that so ? Remaining unreleased Stateside. Oddly the Music Publishings don't match on both UK and USA releases of 'Heartaches' and 'I'll Do Anything'. Why is that ? Leaving no leads there without access to the Publishing books. Plus the promo UK Cameo-Parkway bears 'Block Buster' & 'Premier' while the stocker 'Mecolico'... All rather misleading for someone like me without better insight of that close tied UK / USA Doris connection. That hopefully some on here could explain for being such a "basic" classic from the first hour. So any help in this query or insights on these 3 great sides of her are most welcome.

What a dramatic singer ! When the music suited him (as us apparently) he was truly singing all so heart fully at his best. R.I.P. Sire Big Voice +

Although never my cup of tea as the Five Stairsteps should by many means remain unbeatable if ever IMO yet it's always exciting to finally unravel such who's who and whereabouts about such 'obscure' releases. Knowing it from an old tape that I use to play from beginning to end (like a vinyl compilations) to train the ear while anticipating the 'better' instant loved tunes I always felt these girls to be white and 'pop'. And so...

On the Sham-ettes second 45 for M-G-M on both sides the lead singer do match pretty good (to these ears at least) 'don't waste your time' on Gold Dust. So to me they could very well be one and the same group. By 1967 Sam and the Sham disbanded and so the deal they had with M-G-M got to a sudden halt. This could explain the girls quest for another small label to do a last release if ever they are the same girls. My 2 çents.

OK blank labels are referred to as test-presses. Initially these aim to check quality standards, pre-releases with logo labels but no printed credits and infos aim to consider further releases or not. In the Jamaica of the sixties and seventies the discos dee-jay reaction with the crowd enthusiasm or not dictated such further releases as much as air-play (that likely followed the discos one). In Jamaica the production of tunes was utterly prolific (for such a small island considering....) and so many were pressed on such 'blank' labels or basic 'pre-relases' pre-printed labels at first for that. Then later I guess more and more were pressed up purely as such for lazy, economic, and errors (numerous at these pressing plants) reasons but also at one time because it became a sort of 'hype'. Giving some customers the feeling to be part of the "chosen few" holding something more 'elusive' only given to mythical dee-jays. This phenomenon became more and more trendy by the late sixties. Some of those blanks got released with full-on labels but many didn't. Some with alternative flips, rare, rarer or not. Even few NY or Miam Jamaican based labels had some such 'blank' releases of their own... Finally there is the prolific label's issue who know the back-side effect of giving their all their new releases all with the same labels to dee-jays that can't seriously only play few tunes from a same label in a row.

Sorry but what are your questions specifically ? Is it about 'blank' or Pre-Release Jamaican music labels specifically or in general ? Or about that Leroy Smart record only ? But then what 'title' is it ?

It was clear. Whether or not others have used it first is irrelevant somehow. It's a written discussion for all to read. For me it's the use of such terms / words that makes it a 'sociological pattern' issue. Hence why I was targeting the words and terms not to make it another sociological study on sub-cultures as seen on the BBC Open University or what have you. Was not accusing you but just pointing out the words and terms. And I agree targeting such vast groups of individuals (young or old as white or black) as being all the same is the issue. Said it before here. But I don't care and don't even know what others might think if they don't say it. So I said 'believing to agree' somehow because I read your comments going both ways somehow. But now that you expressed it directly not going down that weird 'white people robbing poor black folks' route I get IT. But there are those about who say so because they truly believe so. That is a big rip-off claim twist from the real world. Yet some NS people are crooks. Still that white man robbing a poor black folk's job done on a record decades ago is a caricature. If some did that evidently toss them in hell. But I doubt that was often. Evidently for me the only 'soul heroes' are the artists themselves and all the people working all along with them. Never any of us, nor the famous dee-jays nor the biggest collectors. I despise those who boast like that and you're right they are about having done it all... While I haven't but it's not a complex for me. Such big mouths on any subjects are unbearable FWIW. Still I admire and respect some of the soulful people I've met. And there are some from every age, sex, education and whereabouts. But outside that or any scenes too. So I'm not going to answer to your 'me moaning' me and 'telly envy' and what ever you think I do since I do not nor care for any of that. But I say what I'm happy about (encouragement) and not. Having a discussion here raising some points I thought apparently you were making that others began to also but that you condensed.

Terms and words choices ; culture and economy are interlinked all through history. I'm afraid that those records were bought and not robbed per se and that white people victimizing some more black folks is... Huh ! Just not true. Are you really going to put guilt on every purchased records ? As for 'appropriation' what about borrowed or influenced from rather than appropriated ? A dance move and / or taking an "over easy" stance for a far away social cause ? Is all that morally 'punishable' ? I think not. Pathetic maybe. Even if that's your way of seeing it using those ideological 'filters' to me these terms are just too insidious and unhappy for one to live with love for those records if ever. For one to have some political or social awareness of the world we live in is one thing. To make any subculture an ideological battle ground is never a good thing. Imposed ideology follows and it's despicable. We're in for the music. Not a political struggle. What I've found at one time on top of the sounds that were my treat was an 'underground' night-life with people dedicated to that music with no dress code, age or origin discrimination nor socio-economic barriers. As opposed to other "marginal" scenes I encountered back then full off aggro for nothing and political side suspicion that I grew tired from. And racism if you want to go there (eg. whites robbing blacks) such is not the white man's privilege. ... Preferring to agree I guess as like you I love some of what still remain of that 'underground' (a 'discreet' not plotting cult of devotees to sounding materials outside of the authorities control scope) scene nowadays. That have taken too much overground float for too long again and that some seems to do everything they can to keep it that way. This is where the issue lies for me. That is consumerism at the service of the rotten egos.

And the other way around too. 😉 It's never as strongly mentioned or shouted about (the old versus the new continent) but anyway those who flee their motherland are not the ones we care for mostly. Well at least not musically. Or at least I'm not. And going out I don't hear them such records played out at the right venues. On the other end I'm not sure where this tread is going but if it's all the same and / or one shouldn't feel dislike but only "love" or careless it's surely ain't my 'scene'. My records, music and all around it is about passion. And all that goes against my passion of what I love about it I despise. And so we discuss it on here.