Agentsmith

the unequivical list from malc, if i can add a sentiment to that, it is that sadly the aftermath of the surviving members reunion, which initially was presented as a joyous occasion, descended into bitter sqabbles over the root of all evil...money. as a result the first gathering here, at the apollo manchester and abroad proved to be the only one where the, then, 7 surviving members would play together. i was dismayed to hear first hand from allan slutsky about what went on...remember this is the guy who spent almost a quarter of a century, persueing this musicians in the cause of giving the spotlight belatedly to them, and rightly so for all the hard work they had put in creating "THE SOUND" that we have all come to know and love and is also imbued in many of the iconic northern soul records we dance to each week. i have to say, like so many others, that i will always feel privilaged to have witnessed their talent first hand when they set foot on these shores for the first time in 40 years and rolled back the pages of musical history, and the beloved autographs and pictures will be treasured always.maybe if they had resisted the temptation to become part of berry gordy's dream, they would have carried on plying thier trade as exponents of jazz, carried on earning a buck or two and been none the wiser about the big outside world, they may have survived just a little longer...and perhaps they may not have carried the burden of injustice and unfairness, which turned out to be the card dealt to them....but they didnt...instead they gave us all a musical phenomenon that is ingrained in our greycells and pumps the blood and adrenalin to all parts of the body as we rush to the dancefloor to acknowledge the motown sound and beat. so, it dosnt really come down to officialdom in the long run does it?, the generalisation is. that they all pulled together at one time or another, and over two frantic decades they established an empire that has dwarfed everything else, they put down a marker that no other musical style has ever been able to match, they broke down racial barriers with their global appeal and they made us all dance like never before. amen to that! rob.h

my memory's probably goin but......,it dosn't look like the cats to me,....certainly not where the dancefloor area is concerned...you see, to the rear of the small dance floor ( that would be rammed with 40 people on it ) there was a raised stage ( no more than a foot off the ground ), this is where you would get your rock bands as the catacombs provided entertainment other than northern soul, which took place on wednesdays and saturdays. immediately above the stage was a concrete beam, again, about 6-9" thickness, protruding from the ceiling. this area was not cavern shaped although i cant remember weather the in-house speakers were at floor level, mounted or inset. the catacombs was probably, originally a factory unit as it was above a cobbled courtyard and the rest of the buildings in this block were, infact factories. it consisted of a lot of alcoves and nooks and crannies, the windows were painted out and adorned with roadworks lamps with red and yellow glass. there was a fire exit and stairwell to thr right of the stage. facing the dance floor was the dj booth which had saloon-swing doors to the side for entry and a serving hatch at the front through which you could make requests. the corridor by which you reached the dance floor lead back to the bar area and ultimately, the dressing room/toilets and entrance where you provided your membership and payed in, no kiosk just a table manned by the manager and doorstaff as i remember. so....the pictures are a puzzle...theyre obviously from way back and i dont doubt their 70's authenticity and, im sure the girl, centre, on the 3rd pic is helen who married pep, one of the djs at the cats....but stalagmites?......im sorry that just dosnt fit......I ONLY WISH NEIL RUSHTON IS VIEWING THESE BECAUSE HIS MATE GRAHAM HAWKINS HAD SOME COLOUR PICS AND HE TOOK THEM WITH THE BACKROUND OF A WHITEWASHED WALL WHICH, WOULD BE IN THE VACINITY OF THE DJ BOOTH. so, tell me ive lost my marbles after infamously banging my head on THAT BEAM because im disorientated with thes pics. incidentally, ive heard that a plaque to commemorate the site of the catacombs is being erected at some point soon, that will be very poignant indeed for all soulies who frequented a venue known as "one of the legendary four". rob.h

RITZ FINISHED IN 2005 DEFFO, REMEMBER JOHNY PEARSON IN GOLD JACKET....HE PLAYED "BREAKIN DOWN THE WALLS OF HEARTACHES" BY JOHNY JOHNSON. SHIFTY PLAYED MELLOW SOULS AT RAREST OF THE RARE....WATCHED ORIGINALS DO REHEARSALS..THEN PERFORM LATER....WHAT A GIG!!!....GINGER AND HIS 50TH BIRTHDAY CAKE THAT WENT ON A UK TOUR!....1ST TIME IN 2001 VISITING AFTER 25 YEARS, DAVE THORLEY WAS ON..TREMENDOUS!...DENIS TAYLOR LIVE WITH TERRY JONES & ANDY DAVIES DOUBLE DECKIN'...SAM AND DEAN DOIN' THE SAME..... THE RITZ...FOR ME PERSONALLY, THE BEST VENUE....EVER!!! ROB.H

cheers to the big 'o', im amazed lots of people still reading and showing interest in this thread. literally 1000's of pics all over the uk and many taken with high quality cameras. i havent had a look but i presume many are now posted on ss and the possibility of a book seems genuine, as i said before, its the type of book that none of us have that is a direct reference to all of us and not just a privilaged few. i hope you all keep this up because it is of significantly vast importance to catalogue the past for everyone in the present to acknowledge and for future generations of youngsters to be educated by. rob.h

i know that the northern scene is full of sherlock holmes types, hence more copies of reputed rareities turning up years after and margaret little has now been around/played since2002 so its not totally impossible but with reference to sams purchase: this copy came out of a ghetto via a down and out who acted as a contact for des and adey, so the story went,a guy who went round knocking on doors asking if anyone had any records and this copy turned up in an area that was considered no-go to whites. when i first saw it you could see the ringwear on the label as it had been stacked in a pile, the vinyl looked battered but it played brill. a while later mick nailed a copy....so by now there's definitely 3 in uk...one on ebay so 4......this is a prickly subject isnt it?....IS 9 A MYTH OR NOT...GUESS WE'LL HAVE TO SHRUG IT OFF AS SPECULATION IF SOULIES OR NON-SOULIES DONT WANT TO DISCLOSE THE TRUTH. no, it dosnt matter who owns them, its the proof that they exist that matters. this record, to me, has the aurra of a needle in the haystack about it but i have to accept that 4 are now known to all but another five have turned up like a fleet of number nine buses?. do the sherlock holmes's confirm this? has j.a. found any of them?, not tim brown?, not john manship?. or is it just that some people wish they had a copy so they want to invent some mischief to relieve their frustration?. rob.h

thats one off the fence then joan but what about the rest of em'?.....put your cards on the table.....its not gonna alter its rareity or value in any way whatsoever. rob.h

second that emotion chalks, first time sam played it out: ritz manchester.....RAMMED THE FLOOR AT THE COUNTRY'S BEST VENUE 2nd: lea manor's last all-nighter hester/wylie combination...andrew "mike" terry production, brilliant sax break. rob.h

IF THERE ARE SIX OTHERS.....PUT YOUR MONEY WHERE YOUR MOUTHS ARE AND LETS SEE EM'.....DONT BE AFRAID NOW.....ITS LIKE THE "UNDISCOVERED WIGAN FOOTAGE" AND ALL THOSE THOUSANDS OF PICCYS THAT PEOPLE BEGRUDGINGLY DONT WANT TO DIVULGE OR DISCUSS.......WHY EVEN MENTION THE FACT IF YOU ARE NOT PREPARED TO SHOW THEM... AM I RIGHT SOULSOURCERS????? WE KNOW SAM GOT HIS OFF DES & ADEY, MICK AQQUIRED HIS SHORTLY AFTERWARDS......APPOLOGIES TO THE OTHER GUY WITH REGARDS TO THERE BEING THREE BUT IF THIS IS NOT A "3RD FRANK WILSON DISCOVERED BY TWO HIP-HOP COLLECTORS IN CHICAGO" WIND-UP......MAKE YOURSELF KNOWN BECAUSE RIDICULE IS A WORD VERY EASILY FURNISHED ON THIS SCENE!. ROB.H

lots of info here now, thats good and i suggest you all keep diggin and keep all your artifacts to hand now as the wheels could well be moving shortly, especially with this previously undisclosed film ( fingers crossed ) as attempts are being made to contact the party concerned. ive been assured this film DEFINITELY does exist and is in prime condition but the matter of securing it for usage is in other hands, not mine and it has also been expressed to me that a book could definitely be in the offing. if there are any further developements, i'll add to this thread. rob.h

me all over mark, its obviously about the face fitting, there'sa lot of in each others pockets and up each others arses where djing is concerned....good job the scene's not unionised or djing would be white collar.....you know.....if you haven't got a brother, cousin or friend who's in it, you face dont fit....it dosnt matter how many tunes you've got. and another thing......we should i keep paying and supporting gigs month in month out and watch other people get spots with a wink of the eye or click of the finger and im totally blanked???. WE'RE TALKIN ABOUT VARIETY HERE, IN WHAT DJS PLAY....EVERY DJ HAS HIS OR HER IDEAS AND THIS IS WHAT PROVIDES VARIETY, SO THE MORE DJS GIVEN THE CHANCE TO PLAY FROM THEIR BOXES, THE BETTER...SO WHY SHOULD I HAVE TO KEEP FUNDING GIGS AND HAVE TO WATCH OTHERS GETTING SPOTS EASY AND IN SOME CASES, REGULARLY AND WHEN I ASK, IM TOLD "SORRY MATE, WE'RE BOOKED UP FOR MONTHS"......RIGHT......SO EVERY SINGLE GIG IN THE COUNTRY IS BOOKED UP SOLID THEN?.....YEAH RIGHT!....WHO'S LIVIN IN CLOUD CUCKOO LAND NOW THEN?? its like when you go for driving lessons, isnt it? you keep payin and payin and when you ask "when are you going to put me in for my test?", the instructor says "soon mate soon", in other words there are unscrupulous people who want to milk you as much as possible and promise you nothing. i wont support gigs in the west mids because djs and promotors alike are "cliquey", they're lovely and pally with their mates but if i broach the question its like having a tooth extracted....but they still want my hard earned money!, thats why i headed north and, thanks to terry davies, barry maleedy, ginger and kev & richard, ive had a chance to play MY tunes. right on mark, you deserve better mate and so do i rob.h

gotta agree with you chalks, and at the same time im not being derogatory to the original poster, but to a large extent what you refer to as underplays depends on how long you have been on the scene eg: GARNETT MIMMS.....i aqquired a copy 3 or 4 years ago but with the knowledge it was an oldie TO ME ... yes, its great to hear it played, cant argue with that...these type of "forgotten sounds" deserve their place. i find it highly frustrating as well that when and i say WHEN im offered the opportunity to dj i play something like that, no-one wants to know.....and its not because the big guns aren't playing it either....so i sell on....what happens next?....someone else gets hold of it and its pronounced as "getting big plays".....SO, ITS NOT GOOD ENOUGH WHEN I PLAY IT THEN??....soes that smack of hypocracy or not?. do you want another example of a "tune"....BARBARA BANKS - "RIVER OF TEARS" played at wigan and before, not expensive but not a cheapie either. somebody must have earwigged to neil jones about it at prestwich and neil is quick to pick up on things like this and i heard he was raving about it....BUT NOBODY MENTIONS IT WAS ME WHO WAS PLAYING IT...i can do that with a whole bunch of things BUT NOBODY HAS THE GOOD GRACE TO OFFER ME A SPOT ANYWHERE.....so im left kicking my heels. thats another story though isnt it?. anyway as chalky rightly says main rooms simply wont conform in such a progressive manner, and afterall, new people who are just coming onto the scene want to experience everything we were into first...to lay down roots so to speak....isnt that how we first did it?, then, eventually they will wander into the side rooms to see and hear what all the fuss is about. KINGS HALL, both rooms work really well and that, is the predominate factor, the very reason why we have these rooms to hear something different and believe it or not, some of these rooms get a great atmosphere, much in the same way as the main rooms. rob.h

yes johno, worth every penny of £400 circa 2007.....was that a bargain? and if so, how much now? rob.h

easy one that dave, on columbia and the most you could pay thats a ridiculous amount, is a tenner!...got a copy recently off ray peters for $4...he has loads of cheap things (speedlimit45rpm.com).best thing is, this is a wigan play from the early years when instrumentals were popular,...probably played by john vincent ("king of the instro's"). as for all train titles...well you're more knowledgeable than me but i'll go with your judgement!.

think you're right mate, we'll be havin chester riggon saying he's an ex-drifter next!!....sorry, i cant be havin pub singers it drags the scene through the gutter rob.h

sorry if my post was misunderstood but thats what i was referring to mick, and you can see the resemblance i want my baby back and job opening as both are similarly structured.......and hi dave, alls well here, hope you're fine......can anyone remember the levine tracks cut on pye records in 76...i remember colin giving me some tomorrow demo's of tyrone's and carol woods, evelyn thomas, doris jones etc and they're probably quite unusual to come across now......just thinkin, wasnt one of tyrone's releases called "running in and out of my life"? rob.h

did rufus do "under the moon"? that would've been something as well!, sounds like a once in a lifetime experience old pal. ill never forget takin alexander patten and his wife round tesco24 at 3 in the morning in prestwich.....b ut he didnt sing to the staff!! rob.h

b b bbby eck lad,...tha grey cells are wor wor workin well!, slapped wrists, i should've remembered that dddddozy old numpty....think i need a dose of what youre gettin.....ggggladis's soothin' hands. rob.h

precise? 70? or 72?. these "so called members" are ALL OVER THE PLACE!!...i live in telford and "one of them" was doin a gig at a PUB in oakengates LAST FRIDAY and he wasnt even the star billing!!!, the manager and the dj looked like the TWO RONS....GERRRTCHHHA!! note: this is the penitance you have to pay for living in a one horse county....not a decent soul night in sight! rob.h ( i am not a number...im a free man!)

havin a listen today to dave.l. brown's "northern side of philly soul cd. i noticed that the tyrone ashley track, " i want my baby back" has a striking resemblance to the del-larks, "job opening" in its arrangement. it was recorded slightly after job and surprise, surprise tyrone ashley is the lead vocalist but under his real name, sammy campbell. he also, just so happened to have cut solo on the same label, queen city and, although i forget the title, ive seen THAT for sale on here and on jm's auction. tyrone also worked for levine in the mid-70's around the same time as lj johnson and evelyn thomas and recorded for pye in this country. did he ever come over here then or since and thus, is he still alive?. i'd wager he would be a good draw with his repetoire at prestatyn etc. im probably barkin' so if he's hovis forget the thread but he'd certainly got the voice. rob.h

STEVE, stick me neck out occasionally so, youre probably right as with ian's second coming, he obviously revisited a lot of things he remembered from years before. i remember him playing it at the ritz and kings hall....had a listen to it this afternoon and it REALLY SHOULD be played!. sorry.....no good at cards either...I FOLD!! rob.h

COM'ON PEOPLE GOT TO BE A CHAIN OF JOKES HERE......ITS EITHER A DEAD CERT WINNER OR ITS FLOGGIN A DEAD HORSE......HOW ABOUT IF ITS CALLED "JUMPIN AT THE GO-GOWOOD FESTIVAL?" SOME BRIGHT SPARK OUT THER SHOULD HAVE A BETTER LINE THAN MINE, YES? ROB.H

oooh!, sharp intake of breath there!! you'll have dave.e riled up with remarks like that chris.....shame the bloody bbc weren't relegated, wouldn't you just love to see them coming cap in hand WHILST THE BOOT IS ON THE OTHER FOOT....RADIO SHOULD BE RUN BY THE PEOPLE...FOR THE PEOPLE. p.s. shame you aren't still at b&q.......some large step ladders, a few tins of red paint, middle of the night....HIGH PLAINS DRIFTER SCENARIO?......"welcome to hell".....good idea eh? rob.h

I'LL LOVE YOU TIL THE COWS COME HOME?...SHOULD THAT BE CLYDE MILKFATTER?!!

you learn something new every day dont you?...WOW!, how good is that website?...dont you just wish every other collectable label was detailed in that manner? love to see the cameo parkway catalogue presented like that. rob.h

ISNT IT IRONIC?......THE PROGRAMS WITH THE BEST RATINGS GET THE CHOP....BECAUSE IT DOES SOMETHING OTHER DULL, BLAND PROGRAMS DONT DO BY ATTRACTING LISTENERS FROM ALL OVER THE GLOBE, IT MAKES THEM FEEL UNCOMFORTABLE THAT "RETRO IS COOL",....IN OTHER WORDS ITS APPEAL PUTS POP PAP IN THE SHADE AND MAKES IT LOOK TOTALLY FALSE AND INEDIBLE, SOMETHING THEY JUST HATE TO ADMIT. SORRY IF IM PUTTING THIS IN BOLD, ITS MY METHOD OF TRANSMITTING TO EVERYBODY HOW MUCH IT MAKES MY BLOOD BOIL......HOW ABOUT WE ALL REFUSE TO PAY OUR LICENSE FEES AND PUT THESE ARROGANT BARSTEWARDS OUT OF BUSINESS? ROB.H