Ian, I still hate it, but you defended it so well you should have gone into law, you been watching suits? For me I think the reason I hate it so much is down to it just being too 'up' and I like things a little on the blue side personally, soul and all other genre's have to by slightly bittersweet to appeal, Thats why I love Ron hall, hell I used to dismiss everything on Motown as just pop. in fairness to the original poster, its a little off putting to a casual user to be so negative about something thats obviously liked by many, so, sorry, but I still makes me cringe.