Len

It's about being professional - I have always asked my guest D.Js what their fee is before the event. They should get paid that pre-agreed fee no matter what. DJs are more than fair on this (As Dave pointed out, most times their fees don't even cover their expenses) I used to have all the DJs wages ready in envelopes before the event, obviously hoping for a decent turnout, that in turn replaced that money I had financed. Over the years there have been many occasions where a guest D.J has just been happy to do it, which is nice of course, but I have always insisted on paying them (It's only right) On one occasion I gave Cliff Steel £80.00 (A figure I had to come up with as he wasn't too bothered), and he immediately gave me £40.00 back saying it was too much - Even though Cliff lived local to this night, I thought that decent of him. More recently, I also had to insist on Chalky excepting a fee for D.Jing in 'Lens Den', same with Mick 'n' Mo, and so many others come to think of it. The point is, D.Jing and Promoting are completely separate things - A promoter should never think their risk is also the D.Js' risk. All the best, Len

Arrr I see - Remind me never to become a record dealer Len

I thought 'The Volumes - Ain't Gonna Give You Up' was £400.00, not £1,725.00! Great record regardless. Len

TUNE! 'Far out man'. I have this for some insane reason! All the best, Len

In addition - It's not necessarily 'going wrong' if the dance floor does empty / thin out every so often - That's actually healthy in my book (As discussed) All the best, Len

He he. Yup, I've had similar - Len's rare sh*t was the phrase... Well I'll see some of you at the next 'Sh*t All-nighter' - Can't wait! Len

........"I ain't going there again".......

……”Instead of going to ‘A N Oldies’ event this weekend, let’s try one of them there Upfront events, I’m always hearing we should at least give them a go as they just want to share more great sounds with us”……….”Ok, let’s do it!”……….. ………..”Well this is pretty good isn’t it? This record’s amazing I wonder what it is”……….”Go and ask”………”Ok, I will”………… ………….. …………..”And?”…………..”He wouldn’t tell me, and on top of that, he’s covered the label up so I couldn’t look to see what it was!”………. Have a good weekend wherever you go folks All the best, Len

Where's Andys' post Dave? (I haven't seen it) I personally don't think anyone has abandoned Life-line, but if some have (or any venue for that matter) a promoter should ask himself why? (Looking inwards, not outwards), speak to people, and address any feed-back they think necessary / helpful....It's hard for some people to give constructive criticism / their opinions if they're not sure how it will be received. As always too many venues is a big factor - That in itself tells me that 4 All-nighters (of this type / size) a year is the most you could ever expect to be well enough attended. But yes Dave, it's not The Apocalypse - It's a positive that people care I'll get the funk out of here now Len

Hi Chalky, ‘Re-branding’ is done for good reason (I’ve done it many times) ‘Same coffee / different jar’ most definitely creates fresh interest (New ideas follow that for some reason) I’m not saying changing the name is crucial though (there’s a lot more to a ‘brand’ than just a name) One suggestion for your consideration - You could put on a heavily promoted ‘Life-line Final Night’ to celebrate what the team and everyone who has supported it over the years have been a part of. Never forget, it was during a very difficult time for the Rare Soul Scene (The 100 Club also struggled for a while during this period) If you have the motivation to re-think things and move forward, well that’s great - and good luck! Oh, if by chance ‘Afterlife-line’ (You’re welcome to use that btw) goes from strength to strength the moment you personally have announced you are stepping back from D.Jing - Try not to focus on it! he he x ‘ave a rest first All the best, Len P.s - Feel free to call my promoters help-line, we meet every month - Lot’s do struggle with the initial rejection, but talking really helps. Our next P.A (Promoters Anonymous) meeting is next Tuesday at the church hall

Great mix of all-sorts last night at The Attic musically (and people!) It looks like we have managed to 'hammer home' our message that The Attic is a place where everyone respects each others taste in music (no matter how bad that may be!) / and there is no room for snobbery - Dave, I played 'The Snake' (Yes, seriously)......Here's the 'heads up' mate - 'The Snake' has now gone full circle in a 'retro kinda way', so is actually now 'cutting edge' (Pssst, keep it to yourself) Great to read Grumpy Soul was a success on this same Sat night - Hopefully be at the next one. All the best, Len

So what's the upshot of all this folks? I know we can look in the events separately, but would be good to have a few views here in one place. I'd actually guess that as there are more people coming out to play nowadays, all the above venues were at least 'ok' turnout wise / I think The 100 Club will now go on forever (Let's hope so) All the best, Len

Taking it back underground - nice one (I hope you have many years left first though btw) All the best, Len

I mean instead of putting on an event similar to another one not too far away, you may as well just go and enjoy other people's efforts - You'd get larger attendances at places then. All the best, Len

Apart from the 'selling' pressure, this can also be down to lack of imagination from a promoter - I've never seen the point of putting on an event that is exactly the same as another one. Len

We have a pool of D.Js that have become ‘household names’, and there is a reason for this - It’s because they are good at what they do. But there is a pressure on promotors to only use these names to get people through the door. This makes sense (to a point) I genuinely have a lot of respect for some of these ‘household names’. The ones I looked up to in my younger years have mostly turned out to be nice guys, and the thing these particular guys all have in common is that I know they are interested in what other D.Js play (No matter who they may be) A silly little thing this - I D.Jed for Cliff Steel at ‘SILKS’, and I was on after Kitch. I wanted to play ‘Larry (Chubby) Reynolds - Sweet Tooth’ which was influenced by Kitch himself playing it, so I asked if he minded me playing it, he turned and said….”You play exactly what you want to mate”…….I know that don’t look much ‘in the written word’ (It was probably the way he said it), but it made me feel comfortable D.Jing alongside these professionals (Kitch not giving it a second thought of course) My point - I have Boomerang at Thorne pencilled in my diary for 21st November - I haven’t a clue who is D.Jing, except for Aurthur Fenn (Unless Maria has sacked him) I am going with the confidence that whoever is booked I will approve of. So if I got a flyer just saying ‘Next Boomerang - 21st November’, that would be all the info I require. I remember an advert in Black Echoes years ago….’Next Blackburn - 3rd November’, and that was it. The promoter obviously had the confidence that his punters trusted him. I don't envy anyone trying to promote - It's always been a thankless task, but very much more so nowadays. All the best, Len

Play lists don't actually do it for me - As in influence my decision to go somewhere (I rarely read them) Who's D.Jing used to, but nowadays I put my trust in certain promoters, having the confidence that they are capable of choosing D.Js that I would like. In fact I wouldn't mind if the D.Js names weren't even advertised (Although I understand this does still make a big difference to others) Shame really, as this may give other capable (yet relatively unknown) D.Js more of a shot. Len

Customer base mate - Meaning the total people that have been through the doors over a period of time. What I mean is, you can't rely on your whole customer base attending every single event. So from those 600 people, if on average each person came to every 4 events, that would give you a steady number of 150 people each time. Didn't someone famously once say that Wigan had 100,000 members? I'd say a few may have had to replace their lost memberships once or twice to get to that number though! All the best, Len

Talking of ‘Hyperbole’ / ‘selling’…..I remember doing my ‘paper round’ at the Kent Records 25th Anniversary celebrations - I gave Val Challoner one of my flyers, and he explained that he couldn’t make it as he was going to Life-line to support his mate Kitch who was D.Jing that night. I said to him (all dead pan like)…….”Life-line’s been cancelled”……..”Has it?!”…….”Yeh, a terrible business, they’re all coming to Wellingborough now though”………Val then clocked the ‘glint in my eye’…….”Len, do you mind turning round and repeating what you just said to Andy Dyson?”………..”Yup, um, see you at Life-line mate!”…….I shouted as I made off sharpish! That kind of thing was just a laugh of course, but for instance, when people ‘massage’ the numbers in attendance to excess on their reviews, it just puts people off - They go the once, get disappointed, never to return. On top of which, they most probably pass on that negative to others. The only way to a successful night, is to have that repeat business so the attendance slowly builds and builds. You need a ‘customer base’ of 600 plus (depending on size of venue) because you can’t rely on everyone coming to every single event - This of course takes time (and effort) In reality though - until more people are happy to just be a ‘face in the crowd’ (instead of promoting) the problem of below average turn outs will continue….. N.B - My ‘Bullsh*t’ was always factual Len

No shot needed Phil - you are correct about only being able to reach certain people, but on Face Book it pops up 'People you may know' who are connected with friends you already have - So for promotional purposes I had no shame in asking everyone I could to be my 'fwend' - Most people kindly excepted my friends request, and I ended up having loads to send my invites to. Incidentally, I feel the same as you about social media, soon after giving up promoting I closed my Face Book account - I can see the benefits (keeping in touch with people), but some evenings I would spend two or three hours on there - yes, having a good laugh etc, but I was in my own world when that time should be spent with the people I am physically with (I don't miss it at all) Markw - Great post mate ......"Hyperbole (or 'bullshit', as has been described here) has always and will always be a part of the promotion of an event and why shouldn't it?"........ I actually used to enjoy all that tongue in cheek 'selling', and again had no shame in doing so - But I believed I had a good product to sell, and was confident that if I could persuade someone to attend once, they would return - I can't get my head round selling something that isn't what someone says it is though - They ain't gonna get repeat business are they? BTW - HAPPY BACK TO THE FUTURE DAY FOLKS! (My fave film) All the best, Len

'What about the music' indeed mate, unfortunately this alone doesn't do it anymore - The ''whoZ', the 'what' and the 'fashion' is what seems to be gathering the crowds generally nowadays (In answer to Phils' second post) Len

I'm afraid a lot is down to luck as well nowadays - How an event falls in relation to other events on that same night. That in itself could split a particular crowd in two (at least) ((Is that problem down to stubborn promoters though?)) I really feel for some promoters when they have done everything they can but end up stating something like......"Not a bad night considering how much else was on".......I could have carried on promoting myself knowing that some nights may have been 'down on numbers', but I simply don't have the 'fight' left in me - It actually feels good getting behind events that I care about (if only in a small way) It's got to help if everyone that attends an event acts as a 'team' ....Or am I just being romantic? Len

Hi Phil, You are correct, the 'pointless posts' that occurred on some events threads have now but disappeared thankfully - These were obviously done to bump a thread (Whenever a comment used to be posted, that particular event thread would 'bump' to the top on the front page) In theory it showed which events were getting the attention, but this was sussed, and the deliberate bumping ruined it - I would say this actually had the adverse effect in some cases. Ref Face Book - I thought sending invites out that way was a great idea until I joined Face Book and got so many they just became as effective as junk mail (as did my own invites) I'm not even sure flyers make that much difference nowadays - Same thing, so many about, I stopped picking them up years ago. I do take them home if someone has took the trouble of actually handing me one though (I used to do a lot of that) I don't promote anymore, but have done a lot until recently, so looking at how things are today, all I would say is the only thing anyone can do is get behind the events they enjoy, and spread the word! This may well include a GENUINE review on an events thread - I think this may 'tip the balance' for some events over just leaving it to a single promoter. A genuinely felt review from a punter is the most effective promotion any event can have - Preferably, someone who doesn't actually know the promoter (So there is no biased) In answer to your last question - Personally I don't seek out any new events, I am loyal to a few, and go to them when I can (recommending them to others for the reasons given above) The latest one I simply 'stumbled' across was Stubshaw WMC (I'd never heard of it) and this was only because Mick Lyons mentioned it to me during some P.M's we had - I think what made me decide to give it a go was Micks' history (I used to go to his Blackburn All-nighters) So maybe a promoters history also comes into it for some people when choosing where to go. Once a promoter has managed to get people to their event, obviously they need 'repeat business' to build (I enjoyed Stubshaw btw, so I keep going back) All the best, Len

'Cost' and 'worth' are very different things Len

It was a mate of mine that sold that - It's one of those record that I had on my wants list for so long, I ended up not wanting it! How weird is that?.....The 'Mystery' is something that should be cherished, sometimes finally getting a record spoils it in some way Len