Len

So what's the upshot of all this folks? I know we can look in the events separately, but would be good to have a few views here in one place. I'd actually guess that as there are more people coming out to play nowadays, all the above venues were at least 'ok' turnout wise / I think The 100 Club will now go on forever (Let's hope so) All the best, Len

Taking it back underground - nice one (I hope you have many years left first though btw) All the best, Len

I mean instead of putting on an event similar to another one not too far away, you may as well just go and enjoy other people's efforts - You'd get larger attendances at places then. All the best, Len

Apart from the 'selling' pressure, this can also be down to lack of imagination from a promoter - I've never seen the point of putting on an event that is exactly the same as another one. Len

We have a pool of D.Js that have become ‘household names’, and there is a reason for this - It’s because they are good at what they do. But there is a pressure on promotors to only use these names to get people through the door. This makes sense (to a point) I genuinely have a lot of respect for some of these ‘household names’. The ones I looked up to in my younger years have mostly turned out to be nice guys, and the thing these particular guys all have in common is that I know they are interested in what other D.Js play (No matter who they may be) A silly little thing this - I D.Jed for Cliff Steel at ‘SILKS’, and I was on after Kitch. I wanted to play ‘Larry (Chubby) Reynolds - Sweet Tooth’ which was influenced by Kitch himself playing it, so I asked if he minded me playing it, he turned and said….”You play exactly what you want to mate”…….I know that don’t look much ‘in the written word’ (It was probably the way he said it), but it made me feel comfortable D.Jing alongside these professionals (Kitch not giving it a second thought of course) My point - I have Boomerang at Thorne pencilled in my diary for 21st November - I haven’t a clue who is D.Jing, except for Aurthur Fenn (Unless Maria has sacked him) I am going with the confidence that whoever is booked I will approve of. So if I got a flyer just saying ‘Next Boomerang - 21st November’, that would be all the info I require. I remember an advert in Black Echoes years ago….’Next Blackburn - 3rd November’, and that was it. The promoter obviously had the confidence that his punters trusted him. I don't envy anyone trying to promote - It's always been a thankless task, but very much more so nowadays. All the best, Len

Play lists don't actually do it for me - As in influence my decision to go somewhere (I rarely read them) Who's D.Jing used to, but nowadays I put my trust in certain promoters, having the confidence that they are capable of choosing D.Js that I would like. In fact I wouldn't mind if the D.Js names weren't even advertised (Although I understand this does still make a big difference to others) Shame really, as this may give other capable (yet relatively unknown) D.Js more of a shot. Len

Customer base mate - Meaning the total people that have been through the doors over a period of time. What I mean is, you can't rely on your whole customer base attending every single event. So from those 600 people, if on average each person came to every 4 events, that would give you a steady number of 150 people each time. Didn't someone famously once say that Wigan had 100,000 members? I'd say a few may have had to replace their lost memberships once or twice to get to that number though! All the best, Len

Talking of ‘Hyperbole’ / ‘selling’…..I remember doing my ‘paper round’ at the Kent Records 25th Anniversary celebrations - I gave Val Challoner one of my flyers, and he explained that he couldn’t make it as he was going to Life-line to support his mate Kitch who was D.Jing that night. I said to him (all dead pan like)…….”Life-line’s been cancelled”……..”Has it?!”…….”Yeh, a terrible business, they’re all coming to Wellingborough now though”………Val then clocked the ‘glint in my eye’…….”Len, do you mind turning round and repeating what you just said to Andy Dyson?”………..”Yup, um, see you at Life-line mate!”…….I shouted as I made off sharpish! That kind of thing was just a laugh of course, but for instance, when people ‘massage’ the numbers in attendance to excess on their reviews, it just puts people off - They go the once, get disappointed, never to return. On top of which, they most probably pass on that negative to others. The only way to a successful night, is to have that repeat business so the attendance slowly builds and builds. You need a ‘customer base’ of 600 plus (depending on size of venue) because you can’t rely on everyone coming to every single event - This of course takes time (and effort) In reality though - until more people are happy to just be a ‘face in the crowd’ (instead of promoting) the problem of below average turn outs will continue….. N.B - My ‘Bullsh*t’ was always factual Len

No shot needed Phil - you are correct about only being able to reach certain people, but on Face Book it pops up 'People you may know' who are connected with friends you already have - So for promotional purposes I had no shame in asking everyone I could to be my 'fwend' - Most people kindly excepted my friends request, and I ended up having loads to send my invites to. Incidentally, I feel the same as you about social media, soon after giving up promoting I closed my Face Book account - I can see the benefits (keeping in touch with people), but some evenings I would spend two or three hours on there - yes, having a good laugh etc, but I was in my own world when that time should be spent with the people I am physically with (I don't miss it at all) Markw - Great post mate ......"Hyperbole (or 'bullshit', as has been described here) has always and will always be a part of the promotion of an event and why shouldn't it?"........ I actually used to enjoy all that tongue in cheek 'selling', and again had no shame in doing so - But I believed I had a good product to sell, and was confident that if I could persuade someone to attend once, they would return - I can't get my head round selling something that isn't what someone says it is though - They ain't gonna get repeat business are they? BTW - HAPPY BACK TO THE FUTURE DAY FOLKS! (My fave film) All the best, Len

'What about the music' indeed mate, unfortunately this alone doesn't do it anymore - The ''whoZ', the 'what' and the 'fashion' is what seems to be gathering the crowds generally nowadays (In answer to Phils' second post) Len

I'm afraid a lot is down to luck as well nowadays - How an event falls in relation to other events on that same night. That in itself could split a particular crowd in two (at least) ((Is that problem down to stubborn promoters though?)) I really feel for some promoters when they have done everything they can but end up stating something like......"Not a bad night considering how much else was on".......I could have carried on promoting myself knowing that some nights may have been 'down on numbers', but I simply don't have the 'fight' left in me - It actually feels good getting behind events that I care about (if only in a small way) It's got to help if everyone that attends an event acts as a 'team' ....Or am I just being romantic? Len

Hi Phil, You are correct, the 'pointless posts' that occurred on some events threads have now but disappeared thankfully - These were obviously done to bump a thread (Whenever a comment used to be posted, that particular event thread would 'bump' to the top on the front page) In theory it showed which events were getting the attention, but this was sussed, and the deliberate bumping ruined it - I would say this actually had the adverse effect in some cases. Ref Face Book - I thought sending invites out that way was a great idea until I joined Face Book and got so many they just became as effective as junk mail (as did my own invites) I'm not even sure flyers make that much difference nowadays - Same thing, so many about, I stopped picking them up years ago. I do take them home if someone has took the trouble of actually handing me one though (I used to do a lot of that) I don't promote anymore, but have done a lot until recently, so looking at how things are today, all I would say is the only thing anyone can do is get behind the events they enjoy, and spread the word! This may well include a GENUINE review on an events thread - I think this may 'tip the balance' for some events over just leaving it to a single promoter. A genuinely felt review from a punter is the most effective promotion any event can have - Preferably, someone who doesn't actually know the promoter (So there is no biased) In answer to your last question - Personally I don't seek out any new events, I am loyal to a few, and go to them when I can (recommending them to others for the reasons given above) The latest one I simply 'stumbled' across was Stubshaw WMC (I'd never heard of it) and this was only because Mick Lyons mentioned it to me during some P.M's we had - I think what made me decide to give it a go was Micks' history (I used to go to his Blackburn All-nighters) So maybe a promoters history also comes into it for some people when choosing where to go. Once a promoter has managed to get people to their event, obviously they need 'repeat business' to build (I enjoyed Stubshaw btw, so I keep going back) All the best, Len

'Cost' and 'worth' are very different things Len

It was a mate of mine that sold that - It's one of those record that I had on my wants list for so long, I ended up not wanting it! How weird is that?.....The 'Mystery' is something that should be cherished, sometimes finally getting a record spoils it in some way Len

If I stumble across another one - It's yours mate I bought my 94 year old granddad Bonsai tree seeds! - True! Len

The Tempests L.P - I had it spinning at the beginning of every Embankment Club Soul Night for all the years that it run - Whilst I got myself 'wound up' for the night Len

Still no regrets Chalky Len

Nice one mate - I don't sell much, but a couple of years ago I had to 'needs must' an' all that - My children needed feeding (and that is the truth of it) I ended up selling (as stated) The Servicemen, but with that, a hand full of records I have had on the shelf for years, literally collecting dust - 'Howard Guyton - I Watched You Slowly Slip Away' was one that springs to mind.....It's funny, I hadn't played any of them for years, but now that they are gone, it really hurts (only comfort being that they went to good homes)...Some records to people like us are like photos - You may not look at them much - but by god, they would be the first thing to grab if we had a house fire (along with the kids of course)...Oh yeh, and the wife!!! Len

Being ahead is a bind mate - You just got to roll with it Len

Sorry to go 'off topic' here (Maybe should have started a separate thread)......But is there anyone 'out there' that genuinely cares whether their records go to someone who really wanted said record (a good home) / or couldn't care less, as long as it's sold? Maybe this is the difference between record dealers, and collectors selling to each other - Call me soppy, but I care / take satisfaction if one of my records goes to someone that has been longing for the record in question. Len

Sold mine a couple of years ago to someone who really wanted it for £500.00 - No regrets! (It went to a caring home) .........But don't listen to me - I'm the worst 'record dealer' in the world (Buy high / sell low) Len

They’re one in the same really, but my definition - If I was to see A ‘Northern Soul’ event advertised, I would expect the music to be mostly records that most of the punters knew (and loved)……Whereas if I saw an event advertised as a ‘Rare Soul’ event, I would expect the music to be mostly rarely heard tunes, and hopefully those being good soul records - Some rare in the true sense of the word / some rarely heard. Great post Chris L - I may not entirely agree, but over the years there have been cases of ‘Non-descript Northern’ being played simply because it is rare - All in the name of being creative (Which I can forgive!) 498 answers left All the best, Len

The following link has a few relevant points to this thread. I don't think the Scene is actually being killed, like Coops said, it's growing - into something some people like / some people don't /forums/topic/284017-northern-soul-forever/#comment-1903797 Len

This is a fun read for anyone that missed it /forums/topic/234017-‘it-shouldn’t-happen-to-a-dj’/?page=1 Len

So why doesn't every f*cker do it then?.........Oh, hang on...... Have a good weekend folks wherever you go - I'm at my 7 year old Daughters Birthday Party.........and she didn't ask me to D.J Len