Rick Cooper

Chalky, I'm with Solidsoul on this. Issuing a record is made up of a number of different stages, manufacturing, trade ads,press release, radio promo copies and sending stock to distributors. The Carstairs went through enough of these to be more issued than unissued. I understood it didn't get to the shops as Chess was sold to GRT just after the promos had been sent out, so the record was cancelled and stock destroyed. When the pink copies were done I don't think Red Coach would have considered it to be the delayed first issue, more like a special pressing. Rick

Here is an old thread about re issues that includes a bit about The Carstairs As to the time between Ian Levine first playing it and the pink copies I'd put it at about 8 to 10 months. I got a white promo copy from Bob Cateano around 3 or 4 months after Ian played it and remember it being about 6 months before it was done on the pink label. I mentioned to Ian that I had my copy coming from the US and he was very keen to buy it if it was a stock copy, it wasn't but it had 25c (cents) written on the label. Somewhere I've got loads of Black Echoes and one day might dig them out and go through the ads. Personally I'd call the pink label a re-issue not the first issue, although technically it was. A first issue would be when the record came out and the following period when the record label still had hopes for it. In the US this could be months and could include issue on a second label for national distribution. A re-issue is done for some reason after the record appears to be finished. The pink Carstairs is definitely not a bootleg as it was 100% legit. I wonder if somewhere in the US an ex employee of Red Coach or the pressing company has a pink Chess distributed copy that escaped the crusher, the same as the London stock copy of D Banks. Now wouldn't that cause a fuss. Rick

Stu The Atlantic Oldies were one of the best US re-issue labels that I ordered for wholesaling to UK shops when I worked for Global Records and then Robinson's Records in Manchester. They would issue a big US hit two or three years after it charted, pairing two hits on one disc.They were kept on catalogue quite a long time but some got deleted or just didn't get pressed up when stocks ran out. I don't think you'll ever find copies with deletion drill holes. As Atlantic had the foresight to sign up prog rock, heavy metal, hippies and such like after soul declined in 68 they managed to stay in business. If they hadn't they probably would have gone the way of Chess, Stax etc. They also, famously, had a great way of making sure they retained the rights to any distributed labels so they could exploit hit records for ever. Probably the best sellers for Global were the Led Zeppelin singles which the UK company couldn't issue. I prefer the red label and at least you get the B side. The oldies series seemed to last a long time as I saw a silver label version in HMVs in the early noughties, and maybe still going? Rick

On Mastermind BBC 2 tonight (Friday 7th Nov) specialist subjects include Tamla Motown and Dusty Springfield. Could be interesting Rick

To go back to the start of this thread, saw a kingfisher today. No camera but no chance of a photo even if I had, just a neon blur skimming the surface of a tiny stream. Here are a few not very exciting pics from summer.

https://www.sirshambling.com/artists_2012/B/nancy_butts/index.php Nancy Butts info on Sir Shambling. Seems to say it was issued in the US when recorded, any comments? Great record, remember Richard Searling playing it on his Sunday radio program. Rick

Not sure about the explanation from Dave (reforee) as the record labels are printed long before the records are pressed. Unless the US was different when I had singles done in 1975, sheets of the logo and background colour were printed in large quantities. When a single was being readied some of the logo sheets were printed with the title/artist etc and cut to size. Two labels, and occasionally three, did sometimes get stuck together when the record was pressed, the top one just held at the very edge. I used to remove the top label from any I came across and still have loads, but unfortunately nothing of any value. The Billy Davis single with no info could have happened when a sheet of logo prints slipped through without having the rest of the info printed. I'm not sure how many labels each logo sheet had on but probably only six, not enough for the fault to be easily noticed. Agree with Dave K about the inflated price for a record that was quite common in the 70's but I suppose that was a long time ago Rick

I've been trying to get some blue Stateside sleeves, but no one, including Covers33 above, do them anymore. Has EMI put a stop to them. Anyone know? Rick

Previous thread has it as 1967. Think it was from a BBC prog.

Some of it is from the Soul Source favourite - Plebs Club in Harrogate Sorry, not Harrogate but Halifax, thanks Rick S (post 11)

Yeh ,that's where it seems more like married people as that would be one of the seven deadly sins. But in the US deep South of the early 60s inter racial relationships could be a sin in the eyes of a lot of the population. I don't suppose it matters too much now but it would be interesting to know if it was interpreted that way in the US when the song first came out. Maybe RobK would know. Rick

Great song and Roy Hamilton gets my vote. Perhaps it's obvious and every one knows it , but is the song about an inter-racial couple and not one or both of them being married. If it is, the people who are going to find them could be the girl's parents or ,even worse , a lynch mob. For a married couple the line would be "he's gonna find us". They have to hide in the shadows because it would be dangerous to be seen together by anyone in the town not just a husband or wife. Also they can't talk if they meet downtown because a white girl couldn't be seen talking to a black boy. At the time the song was written a number of films such as To Kill a Mockingbird and In the Still of Night dealt with the subject, so it was being talked about. I don't know if Dan Penn has been asked about this but maybe someone has read interviews with him. Or possibly I'm talking rubbish and should just listen to the music. Rick

Last time I bothered looking at the sellers boxes at a soul night 75% were re-issues , legit or not, 20% average oldies and the rest over priced originals. Next time I go out could the promoters make sure there is only mint originals at 1978 prices. At least on ebay I can filter stuff out. Auction Only gets rid of most of the boots and then I search for labels or artists I want. Finding any thing I want at a good price I take a look and also check sellers other items. This is fairly quick and avoids the masses of boots. Also it's a lot easier than driving round the country , scouring lists and haggling at all-nighters which was the way to get good records 40 years ago. Most of the criticism of ebay record selling applies to almost every other sort of collectible. I look for old woodworking tools and books but there is loads of the same common things that never sell . Occasionally rare tools come up which go for good money. For the very wealthy collector there is a firm of auctioneers that always gets the ultra-rare items, in best condition, markets them across the world and gets eye- watering prices (some planes fetch 10 to 15 thousand). Now who does that remind me of. Rick

Nick Fantastic find, well done. Darrell Banks is the obvious mega rarity ,but what is in the rest of the large collection mentioned at the start of this thread. A nice run of mint mid 60 s London releases would add up to a fair few pounds. Maybe once everyone has calmed down you could let us know what else you found. Rick

No one has mentioned getting any thing decent from a Global Records soul pack, which isn't surprising as they were rubbish. Ed Balbier was never one to give anything away so made sure the packs that were sold contained nothing of value. One of my first jobs when I started at Global in 73 was to open all the soul packs and take out anything of value. I think I found some copies of Maxine Brown -One in a Million but that was all. The packs were made up by laying out a large table with piles of the stock and then picking two copies from each pile. The titles would change as some ran out but anyone buying a few packs would get a lot of duplicates. As most were sold to traders this didn't matter too much. Quite a few buyers used the records as prizes at fun fairs. Once I remember making up a pack which had a Soul Survivors single on Crimson in it. I was getting one of these when I noticed the next record on this pile was Lee Andrews Never the Less ,also on Crimson. Someone in the US had not sorted the titles very well and mixed a few up. I don't know if any Lee Andrews got into the previous packs but one copy went home that day. Not many collectors ever bought Global packs but the late Chris Savoury ordered one . I used to subscribe to his magazines and met him a few times but didn't know him very well. However in his order he asked if I could pick some good stuff for him. Balbier opened all the post and read that. I parceled up a standard pack and made sure nothing special got in. As the days post was going out the door Balbier pulled his parcel back and opened it with me there to check it. Did he think I was that stupid. As well as selling packs Balbier once bought thousands of ten record packs in the US. These were shipped pack to Manchester and I had to open everyone and sort them into titles. A pattern soon emerged. Every pack had a copy of Pickin' Wild Mountain Berries by Peggy Scott and Jo Jo Benson.There was also quite a few other SSS Int titles but not one Sam Dees. It took about two weeks to sort all the packs and all I found was one copy of Honest to Goodness by Herb Ward. Many people have said what they got from Soul Bowl's packs. The decent titles they put in were deliberate not a slip up. John knew every record and what it was worth so if by putting in a few Wade Flemmons in he could shift rubbish it made sense. Global bought a lot of Soul Bowls overstocks and I would pick these up from his storage premises just outside King's Lynn. They cost about a penny each and I filled the van up until it was overloaded. There was no northern titles, not one , nothing. We sold a lot of this stuff to the Netherlands Suriname scene and the rest went in soul packs. I used to get a mixed box of 100 records from a place in New York , JAS records,every few months in the mid 70s. I got a couple of Freddie Chaves and Mighty Joe Youngs but not much else. The other records were probably quite good but all I wanted then was 100% northern so chucked out some stuff that may be worth a bit now.Where's time travel when you need it. Rick

Chris Yes, that's what I thought (and said)but messing with the pitch on the other side "Dark and Lonely" may just get Belgian couples swaying . Do you have any thoughts on the missing publishers names? Do other small 45 re-issues always have the publisher listed? Rick

Could it have been a re-press for Belgium or Netherlands from early 70's? I don't remember demand for this one from Europe but Major Lance had a bit of a following in Belgium. The publishers details are missed off the issue copy above, is that relevant? Rick

Don't know if it was ever played at the Wheel but doubt it. I remember it as an almost but not quite record from around 1974/75 but then vanished until played again in the last few years. Rick

At Global and later Robinson's Records in Manchester I ordered a few titles in the Brunswick oldies series for wholesaling to UK shops. The best seller was Higher and Higher and Have You Seen Her. Most of the series was early Jackie Wilson US hits. Brunswick didn't push them much and never seemed to issue new oldies, but I suppose they didn't have many hits after the mid 70s. They used to go out of stock for months and months. They would come from a one stop in the US as it wasn't worth going straight to Brunswick. As everyone says above the Northern titles were for UK consumption. I should think Selectadisc or whoever, asked for an exclusive on the titles. Brunswick probably "agreed" to this but must have lost count and pressed a few thousand extra which is why some turn up in the US. I once found a 200 count box of Porgy and the Monarchs- My Heart Cries For You on the Musicor re-issue in a record warehouse in the US so it seems some UK titles had extra stock not sent over here. The only other way they could be in the US would be for Selectadisc to send back unsold stock, but this is very unlikely as it would cost too much and the chances of Brunswick taking back stock are a million to one. I never tried ordering the northern Brunswick stuff as once Selectadisc had them there was no demand for more copies. Rick

The start of Roy Hamilton -Heartache (Hurry On By) where the backing singers start first then Roy comes in quietly but with real feeling. Also one that always gets me - intro to Edward Hamilton -I'm Gonna Love You, fantastic drum roll then, crash, and away they go. Rick

Apart from Ad-Libs and Stemmons Express all seem really dire and best forgotten so why do some still get played today. Just because you've paid a load for a first issue UK demo of Peggy March you don't have to play in your DJ spot. Listen to it at hone,in a darkened room, with headphones on then file it away, forever. Same goes for Charlie Gracie. Rick

Uncle Willie was a dance in Chicago which was probably a bit out of date when R&B time was recorded. The Chess TV documentary on TV last Saturday had a good clip of dancers in the US dancing in lines, girls in one line and the guys facing them. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tH7LRnyCLoc

Ian Let's Cop a Groove could have just about been worth booting for the instrumental flip as they were big then but ,as you say ,their were some really crazy titles pressed back then. I suspect House of Sounds or someone in Philadelphia was getting wants lists from the UK and pressing anything they had a copy of, or contact with a label owner. Ed Balbier at Global imported some real turkeys at the time, all poor sound quality and thin vinyl. Rick

Ian Sounds like a typical House of Sounds/John LaMont bootleg especially with the Philly connection, but I don't remember it being around.I don't think Selectadisc were selling it so probably not a Simon Soussan disc. Rick