purist

not bothered which label Joker or Jokey, it's for playing so must be a decent player pm your offers, thanks

Perhaps I'm wrong, but wasn't this found in a quantity a couple of years back? I seem to remember one seller on ebay drip feeding them out one at a time, so 250 seems a tad high imho?

You might have a rare gem there ! Before the orange Tomorrow label appeared, promos made for some DJ's for some of Ian's recordings, appeared first as handwritten Emidiscs. I mean the actual labelled Emidiscs not just plain black discs, so technically that is probably a "pre-demo first time in any format, made for DJ use only" Emidisc you have there. (I remember amongst the ones I saw/owned there was also one called Swallow Your Pride) I'm sure Ian L can confirm/deny if this is correct, but as a collector of all his early recordings I'm fairly sure this is accurate ;-) I'll bet it's worth, err, maybe as much as a pound !!! but in scene history, priceless !

Pretty sure we've discussed this before. What do the initials P.B. on some bootlegs mean? As they all seem to relate to the Sousann era was this his nom de guerre? or simply the way the record producer identified a Private or Personal Batch?

Historically on our scene lots of DJ's have continued to mention the former cover up name and the dj who played it first or who covered it up, as in " Here is Richard's Jimmy Georgetowns cover up, better know today as The Shadows" and the only bit that sinks in as you are dancing away is the cover up name, because that's what you first knew it as, and maybe if you are so inclined " hasn't that been uncovered?", but let's be honest, you should just be too busy dancing to a fabulous tune (and one that deserves a few more revive spins) Maybe it's just me but I love keeping our history alive, by name checking the DJ and announcing them under their cover up names, which can of course cause confusion. True story - honestly- one time I announced " One of Guy Hennigan's all time great tunes, Casanova Bennett! and this lad came on stage and said " this is brilliant, sounds almost the same as a record I've got at home by Bobby Hutton"

One night I was at the old Keele Niters, early years (when would that have been? later 80's or early 90s?) and I picked up an acetate like this from a sellers sales box. I was overjoyed at the prospect of owning the tune, but it was tidy money (might have been 400 quid?) so I took time out to think about it as no one else seemed to be interested on that night (or maybe no one else had any money with them?) The seller was somebody I trusted and we spoke on the phone during the following week, as I'd decided to go ahead with the deal. The seller told me he had become very worried because the same person that he'd had this acetate from had subsequently approached him with a small number of other similarly labeled acetates of stupendous Northern tunes (including another copy of this Irma tune - possibly on different label, though whether it was different by colour or by design or writing I can't tell you) and there was a story going around that a quantity of acetates had been brought back from ?? (might have been Philadelphia?, can't exactly remember now) and these acetates were being cut in the UK in East Midlands somewhere, with great tunes being added to these genuine 60's acetates - not just recordings that could have been on Virtue but even some recordings that couldn't possibly end up on Virtue, maybe known tracks from Detroit etc) . In some cases these "additions" were put onto what was the blank flipside to some tune recorded at Virtue or where ever, maybe a ballad or something that had no interest to us N/S fans , in other cases the blank acetates hadn't been previously used at all on either side. This seller told me he was going to give back the whole lot to the guy because it wasn't worth his reputation to be selling these acetates that could be genuine but equally likely could be a rip off. He told me who the owner of these acetates was so I could follow it up if i wanted to. I knew him and liked him, but I decided because there was no way to verify their provenance I'd keep my money back - think most of that cash went on a Sam Williams on Tower? It's a long time ago now, and I don't want to name names as with time I could be confused. I'm posting this not to witch hunt but to help determine genuineness. Thinking back now, possibly part of what made me a little uncomfortable and stopped me jumping in with both feet was that it was a black and white label and I was familiar with the yellow Virtue labelled acetates. You have to remember we didn't know half of what we know now, back then, and as I asked about 'the record bar cognoscenti' told me it had to be a yellow label if it was a genuine mid 60's recording and that the white labels were things made at the end of 1969 onwards. Of course you had to wonder where this wisdom came from and the accuracy of it, but if something is said with enough conviction we tended to believe it, or maybe it was just me being gullible ! One last thing. As a kid there was a studio local to us that had a cutting lathe and many a N/S emidisc emerged from that place, but when I bumped into the chap who owned the place 20 odd years later I asked him what had happened to his machine he told me he'd sold it to some guys in the East Midlands, Leicester possibly. Could that machine be the source of these added to acetates? Personally I still have bad dreams about this, wondering if I left behind a proper acetate of an awesome tune. Hope this info helps and hasn't just muddied the waters.

I know this doesn't answer your specific question, but worth mentioning -I've seen several Big Wheel 45's on a white label, printed as per the green issue, but with no mention of promo, dj copy, radio station only, etc (same as the later Precisions 45's on Drew) Also some old photocopy scans made them look as though they were white but they were just green and came out pale. I think a wdj exists, but my memory is sketchy at best these days, maybe I saw one in a mag? Have you tried Popsike or the older fanzines? There are definitely wdj's of some 45's on the label, think I've still got Standing On Guard & Sandy Hollis in my boxes somewhere.

I don't like the use of the phrase " vanity project" to refer to bootlegs. originally Vanity Pressings were when the artist or someone associated with them, paid for a quantity to be pressed without the artist being signed to a proper label. Dora Hall is sometimes quoted as an example, supposedly her husband was a well off man who financed her recordings and the pressing of the actual records (although she did record for some actual labels as well) Often the garage band Northern 45's which appear to be rare items are examples of this self made, self pressed "vanity" projects. It had multiple benefits, it gave them something to sell at gigs, it gave them an aura of significance with radio stations and could also be used to attract official labels. (didn't the pressing of the Lost Soul's Secret of Mine get paid for by some band members parents? one of many examples we've heard of down the years) If it is the case that an artist upon discovering that his 60's 45 is fetching massive sums then represses it as a look-a-like it would be down to the wording of the contract of ownership of the recording whether it was a bootleg or legit second pressing, albeit 50 years after the first pressing., but vanity??? Look-a-like, a tribute to the beauty of the original, or an attempt to deceive?

Hi Neil, lovely item that acetate. Have you by any chance got a spare vinyl copy on Real Side that I could have? cheers, john pugh

It's not something that was made for one of these multitude of box sets that have flourished lately? Maybe one that didn't get finished? The reason for thinking this is that some of the ones I've seen look quite convincingly 60's original in the photos btw anyone know if the Revilot box set of 45's is ever going to come to the market?

any sound file so we can hear what it's like? I've not seen this 45 before, so have no idea if it's a ballad, dancer, etc

So yesterday I spent a ridiculous amount of time on utube, ploughing through as many videos as I could -not listening, just looking for this label design. Eventually I found it. I must have looked at thousands of labels. What I should have done was check on here firs,t because a fine fellow who shares much the same taste as me had cracked it. Stand up Phil T, I reckon I owe you a shandy next time I see you. Can I also apologise to all who to all who tried. My misleading memory of exactly what the label looked like - well I put it down to too many late nights ;-) p.s. if anyone has a Kavetts they would part with, please give me a shout

you are on the right track, but sadly not correct

sadly not it (great tune tho') Try thinking of a standard Calla label, then turn the record a quarter turn so that the red parts are at the sides and the white is top & bottom, if you get what i mean

sorry thats not it, but colours are correct

Old age comes to us all, hopefully, and with it comes brain fade.Several times in the last few years I've seen this record for sale and meant to buy it. I have no idea why I didn't write it on my wants list? This is what I can remember. The label is Red and White and Black, might be that there's two red areas and two white areas with black writing? maybe the red is at the sides and the white is top and bottom of the label, or vice versa, but they are kinda seperate areas, think of Canada, how they use their flag on various tourist items. I think on each side at 3 o'clock and 9 o'clock there's a design, not large, maybe its a leaf, or a bird, or just a squiggle. The artist is almost certainly a girl group with a typical The name like The Ronettes , no extra names, or somebody and the suchandsuch, just a group that stars with THE It's a rough edged mid 60's record, no silky sweet soul or polished performance, but not out and out R'n'B. Its northern, but not like a typical classic played in the middle 70's,. It's probably what I'd think of as a "60's Newies" sound. So I'm guessing Stafford era or not long after? In my head I'm expecting to pay 250, maybe 300, so its possibly a £400 record Help a poor doddering old fool, who is getting frustrated. Better still once we've worked out what it is, sell me one

I'll buy your young jessie (cant pm you for some reason?)

want one that plays well, not too fussed about the labels being clean etc. Please reply stating which label design & condition details, along with your price cheers, john

I dont remember now exactly where it came from but I got an orange one before 'the orange load' turned up (by several years I think) At the time I would buy anything that came from detroit, even stuff that wasn't soul but was on labels that featured soul tracks that I knew of. I'd gamble a lot because the records were so cheap compared to buying imports in the UK. I later queried the colour and was told by fellow detroit enthusiasts that they were pressed at the same time, just ran out of paper (one suggested that the orange was the first press and the green was from the later pressing, and that this 2nd pressing had produced poor copies and most were scrapped? but that could just be somebody expressing the point that nobody knows and its dangerous to be certain which came first, and there's no pressing stamps to date either copy) Sure there are fewer green label copies but that doesn't guarantee they were the first produced, more likely it points to a substandard pressing, which happens more often when reusing a pressing plate doesn't it? From memory one day I took it around Richard Domars house and put it next to a green one that he had and it looked like they were pressed from the same plate ( think info scratched in was the same on both?) I've never actually put my orange one next to one from the later load to check if they are identical. I've spent a small fortune on records down the years, but never once have I had the desire to own a green labelled copy. Strange isn't it, I'd probably buy any detroit n/s 45 original, but not this one, just because we are totally guessing as to which came first the chicken or the egg. if its really crucial I will dig it out, just might take a day or three to find it. hth One last thing - I asked Popcorn on two different occasions about this and whilst he was great on some subjects, recording sessions, tours, etc, label colour wasn't his thing, showing him my orange copy he said thats the right one, next time I asked, which was some years later, he wasn't sure. One time he said that they always used grey labels for local pressings, grey????? I wondered if he was thinking of Revilot but he said no. So does anyone have any grey Soul Hawks of Jimmy Soul Clark? collecting, don't you just love it, a mix between addiction, passion, investment and sherlock holmes ;-)

I'm probably telling you something you already know about this great lice of N/S, but just in case, this was released 3 times. First time as Linda Burns on Ty-Tex, then as by The Dolls on both Toy & Loma. All these releases happened between 65 and 66 ( I think? not definite about the Toy release?) so not much to choose between them date wise, although it's generally accepted that the Linda Burns is the original, and it's definitely the rarest by a country mile (some say it sounds better? a more northern version, but not sure i could ever tell any difference at all when i had it on all 3 labels?) On Discogs there's a Linda Burns for sale at £150, no idea who the seller is, or if the seller is on here? Cheapest format is usually Loma at about £60 for a near mint very nice clean no writing or stickers etc VG++ and Toy copies about the same or slightly less (dont think Ive ever seen a Toy WDJ?) hth btw have you seen the live versions on youtube, brilliant in their sparkly green dresses !

Looking for a playable copy of this 45, the side i want it for is Hello Stranger so if the other side doesnt play then that will be okay for me. At a push I'd take a Little Joe album (or compilation album if its legit) which has this version on it, just want it on vinyl so i can play it from time to time because Ive nearly worn out my copy of Yvonne Elliman ;-)

He could always have played " How " - perhaps then Jack Hargreaves would have let us have a go on his peace pipe (dunno why folk go on about Bunty James on How !, personally, and bringing it back to N/S, I much preferred Marian Davies, who as we all know was also a member of The Ladybirds (she was the blonde one ) who as well as singing backing on many UK recording sessions did a version of Goin Out Of My Head on the first Benny Hill show. That version broadcast in 1969 might have been my first exposure to uptempo pop stompers, I wonder if Russ was also watching and that's where his ideas came from 8minutes 18 seconds in> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nnnhIT71hcU

Glad it's not just me that remembers it, but I thought it sounded more like " Injun Music ", which I expected him to follow on saying " Consarn it and Dagnabbit, you folks had better get to dancin' " as he whipped out his six shooter

dunno if you got a good deal but think you might get a number of folk pm'ing you constantly now people know you've got a copy

I first heard J Gresham at the Mecca, I suspect between 73-6 ? anyway, Ive only seen it for sale twice on the scene (although it could have been the same copy?) plus one on ebay, in 40 odd years .It was wanted for the PIOOYM side @ Mecca, and TFIH side in the later years, but as Kegsy previously said, the answer to the original question has to be Baby Reconsider, by a Landslide ( unless were talking specific label variations, for example, wdj's or rarer issues, or local issues, then it's a whole different ballgame, for example a wdj of Landslide or In Orbit, both early years tunes that rarely turn up in dj format. There's got to be a few like that, those were just off the top of my head. The gold vinyl Professionals?)