purist

I'm fairly sure I recognise some of the people in this photo?

Have sent you an email for the Bobbie Smith record. Gotta go out, will be back in a couple of hours and will sort payment then. If you still have my card details on file use them, cheers john

I saw it written by Pep (I think) that it was played at the Catacombs before Wigan opened. I think the album was released in 1972, the Cats closed in 74, so highly likely, although that was the era of 100 mph stompers. I think it truly became the Monster it is now at the original Bretby Country Club, when was that, earlier 90's ? about 25 years ago maybe?

what sort of money does this go for? I might be tempted

pm'ed you

As this tune seems to be having yet another resurgence I thought it was worth mentioning for those who don't know, that it got a legitimate UK 45 release in 2002 on BGP, a label that runs under the Ace umbrella I think. Don't know if you can still buy it through Ace, but it's on Discogs for a paltry sum, less than £8 + post. Look under the Linda Lyndell "What a man" flipside if you have trouble locating it HTH

btw is there any relevance to the different yellow labels, personally I prefer the more mustard one to the more lemon one. Does anybody know, does it relate to different pressing plants or ????

btw is there any relevance to the different yellow labels, personally I prefer the more mustard one to the more lemon one. Does anybody know, does it relate to different pressing plants or ????

I bought all my Loma's back in the 70's when like minded others did also, as I tried to find anything vaguely Northern (and/or Danceable), so maybe this has since been found, but back then I think the only WDJ's of Loma 2086 had the same track on both sides (You Don't Know Nothing About Love) so if you wanted the brilliant " Mean It Baby " you had to buy the issue. I remember thinking what a pain in the a*se it was because I'd got all the others on WDJ's (after that I gave up and bought some more issues) I cannot think off the top of my head of any other 45 on the label where this happened?

I bought all my Loma's back in the 70's when like minded others did also, as I tried to find anything vaguely Northern (and/or Danceable), so maybe this has since been found, but back then I think the only WDJ's of Loma 2086 had the same track on both sides (You Don't Know Nothing About Love) so if you wanted the brilliant " Mean It Baby " you had to buy the issue. I remember thinking what a pain in the a*se it was because I'd got all the others on WDJ's (after that I gave up and bought some more issues) I cannot think off the top of my head of any other 45 on the label where this happened?

Ive never heard of any boot having a legit Bestway stamp. Is it Italic=ish writing the word Bestway? if so can't believe its not correct. Bob Brady= Baltimore. Bestway was only in New Jersey, couple of hours away, think all the BB stuff was mastered at Bestway. https://www.discogs.com/Bob-Brady-The-Con-Chords-Everybodys-Goin-To-The-Love-In/master/441248

isn't this a case of having to own it on both labels, so you can admire the ric-tic styrene wdj, but play the gordy wdj because the vinyl will stand up to more abusive dj decks?

not bothered which label Joker or Jokey, it's for playing so must be a decent player pm your offers, thanks

Perhaps I'm wrong, but wasn't this found in a quantity a couple of years back? I seem to remember one seller on ebay drip feeding them out one at a time, so 250 seems a tad high imho?

You might have a rare gem there ! Before the orange Tomorrow label appeared, promos made for some DJ's for some of Ian's recordings, appeared first as handwritten Emidiscs. I mean the actual labelled Emidiscs not just plain black discs, so technically that is probably a "pre-demo first time in any format, made for DJ use only" Emidisc you have there. (I remember amongst the ones I saw/owned there was also one called Swallow Your Pride) I'm sure Ian L can confirm/deny if this is correct, but as a collector of all his early recordings I'm fairly sure this is accurate ;-) I'll bet it's worth, err, maybe as much as a pound !!! but in scene history, priceless !

Pretty sure we've discussed this before. What do the initials P.B. on some bootlegs mean? As they all seem to relate to the Sousann era was this his nom de guerre? or simply the way the record producer identified a Private or Personal Batch?

Historically on our scene lots of DJ's have continued to mention the former cover up name and the dj who played it first or who covered it up, as in " Here is Richard's Jimmy Georgetowns cover up, better know today as The Shadows" and the only bit that sinks in as you are dancing away is the cover up name, because that's what you first knew it as, and maybe if you are so inclined " hasn't that been uncovered?", but let's be honest, you should just be too busy dancing to a fabulous tune (and one that deserves a few more revive spins) Maybe it's just me but I love keeping our history alive, by name checking the DJ and announcing them under their cover up names, which can of course cause confusion. True story - honestly- one time I announced " One of Guy Hennigan's all time great tunes, Casanova Bennett! and this lad came on stage and said " this is brilliant, sounds almost the same as a record I've got at home by Bobby Hutton"

One night I was at the old Keele Niters, early years (when would that have been? later 80's or early 90s?) and I picked up an acetate like this from a sellers sales box. I was overjoyed at the prospect of owning the tune, but it was tidy money (might have been 400 quid?) so I took time out to think about it as no one else seemed to be interested on that night (or maybe no one else had any money with them?) The seller was somebody I trusted and we spoke on the phone during the following week, as I'd decided to go ahead with the deal. The seller told me he had become very worried because the same person that he'd had this acetate from had subsequently approached him with a small number of other similarly labeled acetates of stupendous Northern tunes (including another copy of this Irma tune - possibly on different label, though whether it was different by colour or by design or writing I can't tell you) and there was a story going around that a quantity of acetates had been brought back from ?? (might have been Philadelphia?, can't exactly remember now) and these acetates were being cut in the UK in East Midlands somewhere, with great tunes being added to these genuine 60's acetates - not just recordings that could have been on Virtue but even some recordings that couldn't possibly end up on Virtue, maybe known tracks from Detroit etc) . In some cases these "additions" were put onto what was the blank flipside to some tune recorded at Virtue or where ever, maybe a ballad or something that had no interest to us N/S fans , in other cases the blank acetates hadn't been previously used at all on either side. This seller told me he was going to give back the whole lot to the guy because it wasn't worth his reputation to be selling these acetates that could be genuine but equally likely could be a rip off. He told me who the owner of these acetates was so I could follow it up if i wanted to. I knew him and liked him, but I decided because there was no way to verify their provenance I'd keep my money back - think most of that cash went on a Sam Williams on Tower? It's a long time ago now, and I don't want to name names as with time I could be confused. I'm posting this not to witch hunt but to help determine genuineness. Thinking back now, possibly part of what made me a little uncomfortable and stopped me jumping in with both feet was that it was a black and white label and I was familiar with the yellow Virtue labelled acetates. You have to remember we didn't know half of what we know now, back then, and as I asked about 'the record bar cognoscenti' told me it had to be a yellow label if it was a genuine mid 60's recording and that the white labels were things made at the end of 1969 onwards. Of course you had to wonder where this wisdom came from and the accuracy of it, but if something is said with enough conviction we tended to believe it, or maybe it was just me being gullible ! One last thing. As a kid there was a studio local to us that had a cutting lathe and many a N/S emidisc emerged from that place, but when I bumped into the chap who owned the place 20 odd years later I asked him what had happened to his machine he told me he'd sold it to some guys in the East Midlands, Leicester possibly. Could that machine be the source of these added to acetates? Personally I still have bad dreams about this, wondering if I left behind a proper acetate of an awesome tune. Hope this info helps and hasn't just muddied the waters.

I know this doesn't answer your specific question, but worth mentioning -I've seen several Big Wheel 45's on a white label, printed as per the green issue, but with no mention of promo, dj copy, radio station only, etc (same as the later Precisions 45's on Drew) Also some old photocopy scans made them look as though they were white but they were just green and came out pale. I think a wdj exists, but my memory is sketchy at best these days, maybe I saw one in a mag? Have you tried Popsike or the older fanzines? There are definitely wdj's of some 45's on the label, think I've still got Standing On Guard & Sandy Hollis in my boxes somewhere.

I don't like the use of the phrase " vanity project" to refer to bootlegs. originally Vanity Pressings were when the artist or someone associated with them, paid for a quantity to be pressed without the artist being signed to a proper label. Dora Hall is sometimes quoted as an example, supposedly her husband was a well off man who financed her recordings and the pressing of the actual records (although she did record for some actual labels as well) Often the garage band Northern 45's which appear to be rare items are examples of this self made, self pressed "vanity" projects. It had multiple benefits, it gave them something to sell at gigs, it gave them an aura of significance with radio stations and could also be used to attract official labels. (didn't the pressing of the Lost Soul's Secret of Mine get paid for by some band members parents? one of many examples we've heard of down the years) If it is the case that an artist upon discovering that his 60's 45 is fetching massive sums then represses it as a look-a-like it would be down to the wording of the contract of ownership of the recording whether it was a bootleg or legit second pressing, albeit 50 years after the first pressing., but vanity??? Look-a-like, a tribute to the beauty of the original, or an attempt to deceive?

Hi Neil, lovely item that acetate. Have you by any chance got a spare vinyl copy on Real Side that I could have? cheers, john pugh

It's not something that was made for one of these multitude of box sets that have flourished lately? Maybe one that didn't get finished? The reason for thinking this is that some of the ones I've seen look quite convincingly 60's original in the photos btw anyone know if the Revilot box set of 45's is ever going to come to the market?

any sound file so we can hear what it's like? I've not seen this 45 before, so have no idea if it's a ballad, dancer, etc

So yesterday I spent a ridiculous amount of time on utube, ploughing through as many videos as I could -not listening, just looking for this label design. Eventually I found it. I must have looked at thousands of labels. What I should have done was check on here firs,t because a fine fellow who shares much the same taste as me had cracked it. Stand up Phil T, I reckon I owe you a shandy next time I see you. Can I also apologise to all who to all who tried. My misleading memory of exactly what the label looked like - well I put it down to too many late nights ;-) p.s. if anyone has a Kavetts they would part with, please give me a shout

you are on the right track, but sadly not correct