purist

Mick, Would that be the black stock copy with the dog at the top, or the dog on the side ? here's mine - fave 70's 45 kalyan - just let me love you fave 60's 45 willie kendrick -whats that on your finger fave ender 45 charles drain i'm gonna stay fave album only roy hamilton - reach out for me but these choices will change every half hour - there you go, less than half an hour and I've already changed, talk about choices - how about Choice Four - Hook it Up, or me saying there you go, how about freddie paris there she goes? just too many ace tunes, but that's what makes it a fun label to collect !

Has anyone got a stock copy, or seen anything other than the yellow demo copies ? purist - p.s. "thee" has two E's in it, a bit like some people at the weekend :-)

Rugby. never miss if I can help it.

Unless you are a "US labels Only" collector can I suggest you buy the UK issue? I've had quite a few US ones and they all played less than perfectly ( I'm being kind, they looked good but played between annoying & rubbish, and this is from someone who's not that fussy) yet every UK copy I've come across plays great. You pays yer money and takes yer choice, I'm not looking for an arguement, this is just my suggestion.

I don't get it, and never have. I've had this friendly arguement in endless record bars at Niters since these tunes were in their first years of play. Surely the Fourth Day version is the one to own? Everything about this record is way much better than E.L. but the final 40+ secs of the F.Day track are heartwrenchingly soulful ( you know the bit when the singer lets go a bit) Plus the lyrics fit much better, the overall feel of the record makes all other versions/takes of this backing sound like unfinished demo's to me. In my memory it was always the F.Day version that filled the floor back in the day. I can only figure that E.L.'s versions were deemed as " rare" and therefore more worthy, but recent internet sales don't seem to bear out this "rare" tag, or am I wrong ? I've always thought that if the E.L. versions had someone else's name on it then it would have never got beyond 3 spins and out. And before you start throwing stones I am a fully paid up member of the E.Laskey Appreciation Society and love almost all of his output, just definitely not this one. Sorry.

many thanks for that John. I'd love to hear it again, even half the track, or a dodgy live venue recording, just to remind myself. Am I about right date wise for this thread, or was it earlier?

I vaguely remember something that I think Richard played that I loved dancing to. Now over the years my memory has faded so can some less forgetful soul help me out? It was called something like " Space Age Lover" or "Automatic Lover" or " Space Age Automatic Lover" you get my drift. He may have credited it to Bill Brandon, but just as likely I'm wrong on that also. I bought Bill " Space Lady" in the hope that this was what it was, but It wasn't the right tune. I bought quite a few Bill Brandon/Sam dees tunes over the years in the vague hope they might get me closer to the answer, they didn't, but they were all good records so no harm done there. Please somebody, HELP !!!!! If you don't know the identity but remember the tune please shout up, so I know I haven't gone bonkers !

It can be a great way to draw attention to a new spin, even if everybody and his dog come up afterwards and tell you they know what it is, at least it's got folk talking about it, which isn't always that easy in a nite of super rare and obscure music. And in these days of more 'so called dj's' copying other dj's spins rather than using their own intuition, it virtually guarantees these guys and gals tracking down a copy and playing it in their very next set, effectively spreading the faith on that tune rather than keeping it hidden under a label. And yes in years gone by I admit I've sat for hours with a photocopy of a wdj label & the lettraset sheets, to create a masterpiece, or at least a decent looking cover up label. My fave wdj to use was a Golden World one, you can imagine the faces when folk came up to deck clock, usually a double take with neck whip at around 150 mph Cover up's are a huge part of our scene's history, it would be such a shame to lose them, or the practice of doing them. On the subject of artistic impersonation, Did anyone else ever buy a hand drawn labelled copy of some indemand 45 in the dark of an early years Niter? I bought two at least on different occasions. One I remember was a UK "Please Operator" made to look like a US, not so much a rip off, more a lesson on pre photocopy art - wish I'd kept them now, bet somebody would want to give me mucho dollars for the nostalgic artwork !

Have some great memories from the BH, all eras, even a few family weddings. I remember the nite when Pep first went with two rooms, and Carl fortnum playing a blinder of a set in the converted cupboard room, as the screwed together dance floor disintigrated before our eyes - think Paul Everton (&/or Brocky maybe ?) were responsible for constructing the floor that afternoon, finishing with only minutes to spare? Did the first dj have to miss their spot because it wasn't quite finished in time, or am I imagining that? Obviously too many uptempo numbers, perhaps a few more beat ballads would have made the floor last until the end of the nite? Saw and held the Kimtone labelled beauty that nite, dunno whose copy it was, yours Ted? or was it Carls or one of the Cavendish regulars? and maybe that was also the first nite I heard "You My Love" (a.k.a. Run Away Tami Lynn) through a big system, when would that have been, 80's? 90's? Dave did you come down the nite Mick Smith was on as guest? I still think to this day in 4 decades that I've put in listening and dancing, that his set that nite was in the top 3 of all time. We told him to cut loose and play all the things he didn't normally have the chance to play. It was such a shame as so few people were there to hear his brilliance. This was when Max, Ken & I had a go at running it, not 100% sure, but after Pep 'n' Helen but possibly before Tait, Martyn, Lin & Davie? I can only date it by remembering it as being the venue where Roger Banks first started playing Kiss My Love Goodbye, which would date it as....? a dozen years back maybe, dunno? The strange but wonderful Cavendish Club nite at the Wagon & Horses - I can tell you the story behind that if you like? When Jack Macdougal moved back to Scotland we kept the weekly soul club going by moving from the Wheatsheaf to the Wagon. Jack had created & overseen the Walsall based club, and in the process had set a record for the longest running weekly (non Niter) soul nite which never missed a week - can't remember now but maybe it was something like 7 1/2 years? - some ridiculously long time anyway, those of us who were regulars decided we didn't want to lose the club so kept it going for another few years. All told we never did miss a nite 52 thursdays a year, even when our regular thursday fell on xmas we still put it on. Typically you'd get a full house one week and 10 paying punters the next week, but it was where we met up to arrange lifts to that w'ends Niters etc - oh the simplicity of the scene before the interweb! So, on the nite in question, when we turned up at The Cavendish people were starting to arrive and were being told the nite wasn't going to happen, so I suggested to Pep that I could go ask if the Wagon would let him have the room for that evening. After much begging and pleading the landlord agreed, so Pep posted some unfortunate soul by the Cavendish door to tell everyone where the pub was and off we all set. (I'm not sure now what reason we were told the nite couldn't go ahead at the Cavendish, maybe it was the room was double booked, or was it that there was no equipment?) I kept my equipment in the pub most of the time so it was easy to set it up and the Cavendish nite went ahead with folk jammed in tight in the darkness, with equally as many upstairs in the lounge and bar rooms, even some out the back door onto the car park - even in those days we were ahead of the game, I'll bet the young 'un's today think they invented going outside to have a cool off and a smoke To me that nite was like when I first went into a jammed 'Octopus' as a kid, and if one person danced everybody else did because you were all wedged together, so you kinda got caught in the swaying motion - Hi Ho Bloody Silver Lining indeed !! Anyway back to the Wagon nite, I seem to remember being told by one old face that he'd tried to get downstairs but it was too full so he'd sat in the lounge all nite, but still got charged full money, " and so you should" I said, "You could still hear the brilliant music" Bet that didn't surprise anyone that he'd paid, what's the odds that the bar room regulars were charged that nite for occupying their usual seat in their own local ! The upshot of having that mega packed nite? - well the landlord expected us to be able to reproduce those numbers every thursday, which of course was impossible, so we lost our room, and the long running weekly club ended. Talk about no good deed going unpunished. I enjoy these threads as we all have different bits to contribute, different memories, which all together help paint the picture that is our scene's history.

Irrespective of which title, or which side of the 45, you gotta admit ol' Marvin's voice has got a quality about it that few could match. For me it's definitely one that fits into the "Impossible to play to death by overplaying" category, but my additional question is on the UK Kent pressing - are the only promo copies ones that bear the sticker of the promotion company, or are there any printed promo's? btw Rod, you makes oiy larf

There's another mix or version, Hitsville Chalky played it a couple of years back, and to be honest although I really like the released one, this one is better, from a northern soul perspective. This other version deserves more playing at venues, so if you see him dj'ing ask for it, you wont be disappointed...

Hi Craig, Behave Yourself was covered up as Christine Cooper, and like many flipsides that came into vogue many years after the topside was popular, it remained covered for quite a long time - well at few months anyway Cant tell you exactly when (I expect somebody with a set of old Black echoes can track it down, should they so wish, as I remember it being listed in several playlists I think) my guess would be when the more relaxed tempo, more soulful vocal sounds came to the fore - 1979-1985 ?? You rarely hear it played out these days, which is a shame as it's a blinding tune, great shout Craig ( always knew you had good taste ) From memory it was around the same time as Mel Britt " Just Sit & Cry" c/u, which was Jerry Tiffe on Scepter, reinvented as a new discovery by a certain dj about 20+ years later, cant remember his name I think it sounds much better under the cover up name than the real one, but that's possibly another thread... Flipside finding - One of my greatest joys ever was to sit with a newly arrived Soul Bowl 100 pack, carefully slice open one end and play through each record, first one side then the other, in the order they came out of the box, preferably without looking at the labels, finding the edge of the record by feel, being careful not to put the stylus down too far into the song. I'd then write the artist name and only the side I thought worth playing on a fresh cardboard sleeve and file them away. I'd stretch the process out to make it last as long as I could, because I couldn't afford to buy one very often. Funny thing is, donkeys years later when I play through them again I find my tastes have changed, and the side I wrote on the sleeve isn't the side I prefer now - and when you do find something you've owned for decades tucked away on a long forgotten flip it's like having free records - yippee !! The packs I'm talking about were the 100 records for a tenner, think that might have been eleven quid odd including a very slow parcel post? (couldn't wait for them to arrive) It's no wonder every time these packs come up in a record bar conversation that the same quote is heard - " I should have bought more of them packs "

For me the best ones always look like the music means something to them, as though they are at one with the vocals, the instruments, the lyrics, not just somebody incorporating gymnastics just for the sake of it. I think each decade has it's icons, as music styles have changed so has the dancing, but for me the overall best has to come from the most prolific generation, the 1970's, and back then Wolverhampton's Gethro (and his missus) epitomised northern soul dancing. He had an effortless grace, irrespective of the tempo. He never looked out of control or hurried, even when other seemed frantic as they attempted to keep up with those thousand mile an hour stompers so popular back then, he never did. One thing that always strikes me is that you can tell when folk started their dancing by the differences in the style they dance, for example people from around my way who were around in the first five years of the 70's tend to dance much more leaning back (appearing to almost sit on an invisible chair, can't think of a better way to describe it) with their knees slightly bent, than people who came along later did. Not all, but some, recent converts to the scene dance very upright or even worse, leaning forward as though they want to watch their own feet ( just looks wrong to me, sorry. I worry that they are about to topple over, face first into the dance floor. Or maybe they are just checking that their laces are tied ?) Just remembered another old school one, was a tendancy to turn their head to look left when shuffling right, and turn the head left when shuffling rightwards. Always looked cool that one, dancing one way while looking the other. Those cool looking little touches that set dancers apart seem to have almost disappeared these days, or am I just not noticing ? I never mind people not being able to dance these days, but I get miserable that folk can't even clap in the right place, and most don't even bother - have people got no sense of the tribal customs of our scene?

I was having problems with lifting all my old boxes of various sizes due to my illness (oh for those 1970's days when I used to run up the stairs to venues with a 600 count box in each hand, and yes of course you needed to take 1200 records to do a four hour soul nite!!) so I decided that the best thing to do was find something smaller for the odd occasions that I go out dj'ing these days. I knew I was going to HTFRec's in B'ham to buy a new turntable, so I searched through their site to see what boxes they had of a smaller capacity. One, a matt silver with shiney corners flight case style etc, looked quite narrow in depth but 3 rows, seemed to fit the bill as it quoted capacity of 150 (even my brain could work out they meant three rows of fifty) and I reckon on my best day I could lift that amount (or ask my son to, as he usually gets landed with the job these days) I took ages making my mind up over which deck, and even longer on which stylus to buy, so the box was almost an afterthought. When the salesman got it out for me to buy, along with all the other stuff I'd bought I thought it looked bigger than I'd imagined, but by then I just wanted to get all my purchases in the motor and get home. Several weeks went by before I decided to transfer some 45's into the box. I quite looked forward to the challenge of whittling down my 250 box, playing through, deciding which dancefloor disasters would get left behind. Knowing things like capacities are only ever approximations I thought what I'd do first was fill the new box with records from my 250 box and see how many I still had left, which would tell even a dummy like me thats how many I had to leave out when I'd sorted through. I knew it should have been 100 but you know some 45's are on thicker vinyl and many acetates are 3 times the size of those thin RCA wdj's. So I started to transfer them a handful at a time, from the old 2 row 250 box, to this 3 row 150. Pretty soon I knew something was off kilter. They all went in - with room to spare ! I went and got more records and continued filling it. Now some of my 45's are only in a cardboard sleeve and others are in the company sleeve inside the cardboard, and the odd few picture sleeves are in card and plastic, so they're not all the same thickness. The eventual count was 284 - some funny 150 count box this is !!! I thought about getting rid of the box, but I didn't, because I liked it. Now either my son, or one of my put upon friends get the job of lifting it into venues, with it straining at the seams with about 290 wedged in ( well you always think of one more that you absolutely need to take - well I do just as I'm about to leave home) I've got some smaller boxes and I even bought some of those cheapo HMV 50 count size, but for now I'll stick with my " 150 " , ..... and yes it has got rounded edges p.s. just looked, it's not on their site anymore, shame, I was thinking about buying another!

Best Bassline Intro into a Northern Dancer ? Sam Dees "Lonely For You Baby" SSS a.k.a. Dan Brantley C/U Stafford Wuff Wah !!

dont think they're the same backing (?!) but to my cloth ears they're similar - well I always have to stop and check which one it is coming out of the speakers Chantels - Indian Giver - Verve Gloria Grey - Its A Sweet World - Wbros anybody ??? prefer G.Grey myself

From memory White demo's and is it Blue Issues ? Chased it for years after Stafford. Got fed up of not seeing one for sale when I had the money in close to twenty years, and finally paid either 100 or 150 pounds for a nice super clean copy. To balance this out my mate Ken Onions paid either four quid or two quid for his copy - but that was possibly before it got played at Stafford ? I think it's a really tough find, probably falls into that category of "plenty about, but rarely comes out of folks collections unless the price goes high enough to tempt" Like many stafford tunes if it became better known you wouldn't be surprised to see folk paying a lot of money to get somebody to sell it them, but for now it's 'a great tune you rarely hear played out' (on the odd occasion I've heard it loud in a venue recently it still works as a floorfilling stomper, it hasn't dated as some sounds do) and so the knowledge tends to stay with the devotees of the TOTW sound, and those who bother to listen to refosoul, etc. Just out of interest I've seen this listed in write up's as both Les Chansonettes c/u & also as The Chantels c/u, .... hmm typing error? or a case of dj forgetting what he'd covered it up as when the mic is switched on, or even when more than one dj is playing it they tend to use different names ? Mind you I can't talk about dj's saying the wrong things, I always have a mental block and introduce Sam Williams as Al Williams and vice versa! and that's just the tip of that particular iceberg !

" Had umpteen copies over the years with either both sides bad, or just the "End Of Time" side bad and t'other side okay. Then went through a small bundle at a dealers the one time and played them all, and luckily came up with just one that plays brilliantly on "End" side, so yes they do exist. Think I saw someone else comment on either this forum or another similar one, that they too had found a perfect copy from the same dealer I found mine at. I think I checked every single copy and there wasn't another perfect player or I would have bought it. I suspect there's a few good copies about in people's collections that they have just forgotten about as it's been a long time since these tunes had much turntable action, at least I've not really heard it with any frequency since the mid 80's. Perhaps it's worth trying a wants post? Two great sides tho'.

Oooo you could get me in right trouble with this thread !!! First thing - can't believe Bishop's Wood hasn't had a mention. Granted I've not been to every one, but when I have, the music has been somewhere between vg+ and excellent, in terms of "interesting & quality" playlists ( i.e. leaving out the played to death oldies & handbag fodder) Second thing - If you take out the last few years there has been an almost unbroken line of succession of strong clubs within 20 miles of Wolves, playing a mix of current breaking tunes, unknown & lesser knowns, plus underplayed/interesting music, stretching back to the dawn of the scene. Tell me, were the playlists at venues like The Cats, Cavendish, Stafford, Wheatsheaf, Bilston Town Hall, Lea Manor (behind closed doors), to name but a few, full of played to death/wedding Motown & Handbag tunes? no, they blooming weren't ! Most clubs featured dj's from the very top drawer of the scene, either as regulars or guests, so local people who didn't do a great deal of travelling still got to hear all the big cover up's and regional sounds. So this idea of the West Midlands being an "Always and Only Oldies area" is a false memory, perpetrated by people who have a reason to do so, and largely weren't there for best part of twenty odd years in the middle while the rest of us were out enjoying hearing new exciting tunes and wearing thin the soles of our favourite dancing shoes, keeping the scene going locally and nationally. Third thing - Personally I think we got it really close to perfect in the area when we had a parallel system, with every friday nite giving the punters a choice of one 'Interesting' Rare Soul nite, and one Oldies nite ( I said Oldies, not handbag) This left the saturday nites free for a choice between going out of the area to a major Niter, or the odd few local Niters and soul nites of both types. The beauty of this system was that people travelled into the area and supported these clubs because it was worth it, as both types of nite were worthwhile, musically and atmosphere/crowd wise. The extra bodies meant promoters weren't always out of pocket, and meant the nites could be run on a more professional level. One problem now is that people are not political enough, and want their clubs to be all things to all men, with a foot in both camps, playing handbag and rarities/newies at the same club. It's my belief that this just makes largely unhappy punters, which is why so many clubs eventually fail. For every vocal complainer there's often another twenty, thirty or forty sitting around the tables looking glum, deciding "I'll give it one more try, then I'm not coming back here". Across The Board never meant 'let's play five hours of cheap handbag tunes and played out 'classics' and throw in two newies/rarities to justify the adverts", it was a term to describe the mixing of all styles of rare soul/northern soul/ modern soul, excluding anything hugely popular on the scene from 1979 or before. Instead, people should be shouting from the rooftops "Our club only plays proper Oldies" "Our club only plays Handbag" or "Our Club plays Interesting Quality Rare Soul & won't play Handbag", whatever. That way folk can rally to support the clubs playing their favourite style of music. I know I'm making generalisations here, but usually handbag fans get very irate when dj's play something from outside of their musical orbit and give the promoters & dj's grief. The only difference between those fans and the fans of Interesting/Connoiseurs/ATB Rare soul is that these rare people tend to complain less, they just quietly leave and don't come back. Either way, people want what they want, and are now too long in the tooth to put up with spending time not enjoying themselves. Fourth Thing - There is a way to have a healthy (non Oldies or Handbag) club scene in the area. There is room for four regular friday clubs and one special only every 3 months friday nite club, which truthfully need to be run by different people. It requires selfless people to organise it. The nites need to be run by people who understand the need to involve all the local collectors & dj's, and each weeks club needs to have its own flavour ( let's say one is a bit more late 60's crossover, one a bit more early 60's/r'n'b /popcorn, one a bit more 60's super rarities, one a bit more 70's for example) but with enough common ground so it feels like part of a whole. I think it was Des Parker who summed it up one time, he said if you get 25-30 local dj's and tell them if they support the club each month, they will get a chance to get up on the decks & share their tunes 1,2,3 or 4 times a year, depending on their status/records/ability etc, Lea Manor was a bit like this. If each of these 25-30 bring along 1 or 2 people you've got the basis of strong healthy clubs, that other non dj's. and people from further afield would want to attend. I'm not saying it's impossible to run local clubs with resident dj's, just that it gets more difficult each time a new venue starts. If you're a rare soul enthusiast who likes to get up on the decks and share some tunes (i.e. a potential dj) and you know one club has 72 spots open to the likes of you a year, as opposed to a club that only has one spot open for guests each month, because the other spots are full of residents, then assuming the quality of the music and all other factors are similar surely you're more likely to support the 72 one? Maybe you need one or two residents to ensure continuity? or 3 if it's a Niter? either way to make this idea work you need at least five, preferably six open spots, at least 45 mins long (better if it's an hour) so nites which run 8 til12 are never gonna offer enough. Is it really that hard to get a 1.30 or 2 o'clock club? Last Thing - Most of us want a good local club to support (maybe every week is too much for some people?) trouble is convincing the reluctant like dthedrug that what your club has to offer is worth the effort. Word of mouth is always the best convincer, but if I bump into him this saturday morning up Bilston Market which clubs would I tell Dave he really must come to every time they are on? Which clubs would you tell him he really shouldn't miss ? and finally. If we went back to that golden period of just one good oldies and one good non-oldies club every friday I know I'd want to breakout every so often & attend the good oldies club maybe four times a year, because although I believe in keeping moving forward, sticking to the original blueprint of northern soul, I still enjoy Classic Oldies, just not all the time and a 48 to 4 split in favour of interesting, underplayed, new, groundbreaking, different and just downright forgotten never was's seems about fair. oh and by the way, just because you weren't around when it was written is no excuse for not knowing that a Classic Oldie that's rare by quantity doesn't qualify as Rare Soul in the Black Country Northern Soul Definitions Bible, as kept by the Black Country Soul Moles, circa 1981. see I told you you were gonna get me in trouble ..... purist

also check Lee Jennings - Just Keep On Loving Me - Star Track another version is Bobby Bland's on Duke 464, same song, different but interesting think there's more versions ??? purist

simple answer to disputes over which is the best vocal - play the instrumental, which was the first version of this song I heard in a venue, and is bang on the money traditional northern soul. I miss that era, where maybe a third of the playlists were inst's. not exactly been flooded with new discovery inst's in the last two decades, have we ?

70 years ? kinda doubtful dontcha think, unless you've got a stock of spare parts or machines are any manufacturing companies still making cd players ? I thought that the cd format had gone the way of betamax ?

Get it on the Motown magic album, then you can cut it down to fit in a 7 inch size box, as its the last track on the side (you might find one of those cut down 7" knocking about, as we used to do it quite a lot years ago, especially this track, which plays better at plus a few revs imho)

pm'ed ya cheers

I remember that night at the Cleveland like it was yesterday Jack, you & Susan had only just moved down hadn't you ? Was it your first week of living down here ? happy days! The Wheatsheaf ( and all the other assorted clubs from that era) there's a story or two to tell, or not ! I wonder how many promoters of soul nites have ever had to burglarise second storey flats to get the disco gear out so their nite could go ahead - allegedly