purist

sorry, hadn't seen the previous thread. if neccessary i'm happy to have this thread removed ?

In my inbox was the following email purportedly from Ady. I first read it and thought how awful, then I got suspicious. Anyone know for sure?

In the 80's, as has been said, the scene was much further underground, but there was just sooo much of it. I was doing a Northern show on Beacon Radio which covered the middle chunk of England (almost Bristol to Manchester on a good nite, as well as some of Wales) even though it was meant to just cover the Midlands, and we'd get letters and requests from far and wide to prove the coverage. The reason i mention this is that we'd do a weekly round up of soul nites and Niters, and it got to the point where the list was so large I was asked to trim it so it would be too boring to the audience. Perhaps the biggest thing we forget is how many regular midweek nites there were. In the local area, Black Country to Birmingham, if you wanted to you could go out every nite of the week, and many mid week nites you had a choice within ten miles of several (I remember one month where I DJ'ed at 31 different clubs in the space of a 30 day month, and still never went more than 20-30 minutes from home) Now I'm not saying these were all fabulous ground breaking nites, but we always had somewhere to go. Two clubs that ought to be on any list of important 80's venues are - The Old Vic Wolverhampton ( also known as The Cavendish Suite) which ran for ??? a fair few years (albeit with a break, and slight changes to the promoting team) but could possibly have held the title for most important non Niter in the 80's, due to it's progressive resident DJ's who all knew how to blend new and classics, a who's who of the best and brightest DJ's and collectors and that all important huge crowd. On some occasions I remember it being so overfull even the bouncers looked worried ( at the time I think they were using the local chapter of Hells Angels?) as the queue around the dancefloor was 7 or 8 deep, and that's when the bar was also experiencing the same numbers ;-) The there's Walsall Soul Club. Started by ex pat Jack MacDougal, a man on a mission of soul. The reason this club must be mentioned is that it ran, and ran, and ran. Year in year out. Whats so different about that you might ask? well it was a Thursday nite, not monthly but weekly, and like all clubs had nites with low attendances but also had nites with ridiculous attendance (compared to the size of the venue) If Christmas fell on a thursday we'd still be there, such was the dedication and love of the club by it's regulars. When Jack moved back to Scotland the group of regulars he'd built up moved the club to a venue in Wolverhampton and kept it going. In the end it was a badge of pride as all concerned tried to pass Wigans weekly total. Again as with the Vic mentioned above, some of the best were invited to get behind the decks and some of those nites will live in my memory forever - Pat Brady playing his brand new TOTW monsters and some as yet untried newies he was planning on adding to his Stafford sets, and the time we persuaded (after much begging) Tim Ashibende to come down and treat us to his brand of Rare Soul, he really should have DJ'ed more down the years. The beauty of these mid week clubs was twofold, that they became gateways for youngsters, some from the Mod thing, others not so, to join the scene and move up to Niters far and wide, and secondly as a way of keeping us together. It's weird to think in this internet age that we'd go on a thursday nite to arrange who was going to which Niters on the weekend and who could give lifts, or arrange buses up to Perth for example. Jack MacD, the scene owes you a debt of gratitude, and not just the west mids branch. I think it's hard to define the 80's as simply a decade. Better imho to think of it as the period after WC, and before the bulk of the returnees came back late 90's early naughties, because most of the folk remained the same for that period and the attitudes remained the same, the purist pursuit of New Tunes whilst not forgetting the best of the rest. Was it the best of times? Well if we could stretch it to include the fag end of wigan when the best DJ's where starting on this mission and we were heading back underground I'd sign up for it being my favourite time, not neccesarily the best because surely when ever you start on the scene is the best time, but still....

In the right room this could " go ", so thanks for sharing. Impossible to price it tho', whatever somebody wants to pay for it. File it under "more than £30, but less than £600" I'd say, so I'll give you £31 for it ;-)

sorry if I made this as clear as mud Tony & co, I wasn't saying Keb had found them, or that he'd ever owned them, I was saying that Keb was going through Ian's collection with a view to helping (Bernie Golding ?possibly?) get it all sold off (by this point the collection had been gone through for traditional Northern by quite a few, think Tim told me that this was the second time he'd gone through it, the first time with JM, so we're talking about the remnants, although the number of records was still very significant, five figures (10,000+) maybe? - off on a tangent wasn't there some tale about these remnants ending up in a shop in London about 10-15 years back, in black bins bags??) - sorry back to the tale - and one sunday afternoon, presumably invited by Keb, Butch & Tim went down to look at the records. Unless I'm getting mixed up with some other monster rarity ( which is of course entirely possible) or I'm getting mixed up with a story Pat told me about getting both copies off Ian (not sure if this was direct from Ian or from Butch who'd pulled them out of Ian's collection) I'm beginning to think that perhaps with my memory as shakey as it is, that I'll refrain from commenting on any further threads. Maybe it's Alzheimers, I sat the other day thinking for half an hour solid and I couldn't bring to mind the name Martha Starr, no matter how hard I tried. If you can't remember the names on your top ten lifetime wants then I think it's time to give up

From my sketchy memory two copies were pulled out of Ian Levine's collection when it was being sold off, late 70's or turn of the decade? so it was Ian who had it first in the UK, although I've never heard him claim to have played either side in a club. Ian had asked ???, oh darn can't bring the name to mind, to sell them off and think they were put in a caravan or cottage in Wales. Think it was Keb that was going through them, and Big Tim & Butch were there to help/buy stuff, and that's how the first copies got out. Somebody with a better memory than mine should fill in the blanks. Did Butch keep one, and sell or trade Pat for the other, guess that's how it went? please fill in the gaps

Don't know if you are a rarity collector, but in case you are, look out for the vhtf, and presumably withdrawn stock copies which have the misprinted title - https://www.facebook.com/#!/photo.php?fbid=154986977893418&set=a.154986961226753.33678.100001463516070&type=3&theater hth

From memory doesn't the original have a raised capital X in the run out groove? (maybe it's the lazy capital S?) I thought it was always one of those records in pre-internet times that's nigh on impossible to find (you can have 3 or 4 copies of his Veep gem for every Sky-Disc original at least) and have seen it sell in a venue for 350-400 quid for a tidy looking copy. Maybe in these "you can find anything on the web" days more copies have been turned up, but my guess is maybe folk think they're buying originals when they're not, and you cant take it as correct when looking through popske etc that just because the seller says "original" that they are correct because visually they look identical, and i've looked through lots of the photos on popsike and non of the ones I looked at (which all fetched decent money)appear to have the raised capital letter, which imho makes them "second issues" at best, outright boots at worst? Or is it that this 45 is no longer fashionable? or all that well known with the younger "I started in the later 80's crowd", and hence suffering 'triple dip recession/you can buy any non current floorfiller for 25% of what it was at it's peak' ? Or perhaps it's just some of us old farts fought long and hard to get one into our collections and don't care how much guide books say 'cause we ain't gonna sell it at any price ;-) (if nobody else confirms which raised capital letter it is I'll go digging over the weekend) hth

I'm sad that so few think highly enough of the Albrighton Boys (n' girls) to give just two from 25 a mention (Gary H. & Butch) in 60 posts. In that pretty awful 90's/naughties period when Nostalgia threatened to completely drown the real soul scene, the Albrighton DJ's stood up to be counted, and continued breaking tunes (and attempting to break tunes that others later managed to win through with) and reviving former 3 spin wonders that most had never heard. Des Parker, Chris Anderton, Martyn Bradley, were the tip of a large iceberg and fit your critieria of "no longer regular DJ's on the 60's Niter scene". I'll always applaud one young lady who more than made her mark, Jodie, and she summed it up perfectly because she played what she believed in, not what was known, or what was "currently in", and all the DJ's collectively pushed the boundaries, in tempo, style, genre and era. I'll finish my rant with this - When major record sellers and DJ's came along to guest, often there was an element of unease on their part, because the reputation of the club was that they'd have to dig deep to compete (and much as I hate to admit it, it was that sense of raw competition between the regular DJ's that drove the club forward) But perhaps my proudest moment came when one total legend said " I honestly didn't know half the records played tonight, and they were all great"

Has anyone yet mentioned ' What More Can A Boy Ask For ? ' I agree with those who say that tunes like ' Suspicion ' / ' Reconsider ' etc could easily have been hits had the Motown machine chosen to promote them. Temptations ' Witchcraft ' is one I wish had made it to 45, so I could have one (can't afford the Temps Emporers of Soul cd set, so don't even have it to listen to in the house ;(

Records with drill holes denote "cut out" stock, either from a too large pressing run or stock which was sold on a sale-or-return basis being returned. Often the pressing run numbers were dictated by whatever "deal" was on at that time, meaning sometimes it was cheaper to have 2,000 run than 200 or 20,000 cheaper than 500 (when contracts dictated that the label would purchase a certain minimum number over a set period to qualify for top discounted price) and all the unsold stock had to go somewhere, and stores like F.W. Woolworths would have racks in them selling these drilled cut outs for a few cents each. The Salesmen themselves sometimes carried a drill, and when they visited customers rather than take back all the unsold stock they'd offer them back to the customer at a fraction of cost but they had to be drilled to stop them being sold at full retail price.This system worked well especially away from densely populated areas, or at a large distributor. These cut outs which were often sitting around unsold in wharehouses or distributors were amongst the early hits by UK bulk buyers like JA, and was why they were available at a price cheap enough to make it possible to pay the cost of bringing them back to the UK and selling them without bankrupting the importers. Some companies simply used marker pens to deface the labels, we often see two large X's, especially on promotion copies, and that was their version of making them unsaleable at full retail. Others, oddly enough, used a thin hot metal spike ( think of an electric soldering iron) to deface the 45's, and whilst they still had a small hole similar to the drill, you can get the melted vinyl appear on the flip in the form of a hardened blob, but most times this will flake off or gets picked off with a blade ( somebody told me that you could get the same "blob" when they'd drilled too many and the drill bit got too hot and blunt and effectively became the same as the hot spike, but the blob appeared on the one 45 that was the bottom of the pile they were drilling) If you accept that truly mint records have a premium added to their sale price, then accordingly a drill hole does prevent that record, even if it is otherwise mint, reaching top price, so whilst a hole doesn't as a matter of fact reduce the sale price of average vg+ or less records, it does for "mint" collectors. Incidentally they used to operate a similar system of defacing stock with books in the 60's/70's, where they'd tear off the paperback cover, which is how I became a reader of novels. Partly because they were so cheap but also you never knew what the books were about before you'd read them, kind of like an entertainment lottery because without the artwork you couldn't be prejudiced against the genre, and without the summary usually found on the back cover every book was a mystery ;-)

Sorted now thanks people, and thanks for all the offers !

Steve, I clearly remember being at The Orwell when Richard ( I think it was him) dropped this and blew my mind. Most great records have an effect on you the first time you hear them but I looked at Ken and Max who were sitting with me and I knew from their expressions that we were experiencing mutual joy. Not sure if it was Ken who kicked me under the table and mouthed "what the f#%& is this" or maybe it was Max, but in an instant I knew I'd love this tune forever. Sadly the quick pressing on 45 ruined it's chances to go on to become the monster northern/rare/crossover/across the scenes dancer it deserved to be (just like in the olden days I've found no matter what type of event you're dj'ing at from Rare to Nostalgia based, It's one of those records that when you play it in a venue most times somebody will ask you to sell it to them, so there's def. demand and it is an "instant" record - hear it from the first and you'll want it. I think £100 is a minimum for one in brilliant condition, because it still isn't that well known, and I accept that getting more than a hundred for any album is difficult, but tbh if I didn't own one I'd pay that for it, and I'm as tight as they come when buying records (as you well know ;-)https://www.facebook.com/#!/photo.php?fbid=475834280699&set=t.100001463516070&type=3&theater

Lookin for a WDJ of this. Not bothered if it's red vinyl, black vinyl etc, as long as the labels are in reasonable condition (I'll accept small stickers or small writing) and it plays no worse than VG ( the odd crackle is okay, think "okay to dj with") thanks for looking, we'll all get there sooner if we can help each other from time to time

I remember being knocked out by a tune, and put an ebay search (this was some years ago) but couldn't remember the title, just Marion Christopher. (unless it was some other Marion Christopher 45?) This is beautiful so if you find a spare I have a home for it

There's a TV show currently on Sky set in the 60's called Vegas. Previously I heard some obscure, and yes, rare soul/northern, for example The Vines Hey Hey Girls amongst the soundtrack, but this week I was singing along to a tune then realise what it was - it was The Precisions "You're Sweet" on D-Town. A personal favourite of mine years back, but like so many others we forget them if we don't dig 'em out of the box. Oddly enough there's no youtube or other interweb sound file I could find. Even JM lists it without a soundfile. (dunno why i'm shocked when I look for a tune and it's not on YT, but I always am shocked. One day I must get around to doing some myself and adding these missing gems)

An interesting cover version that Brad used to tell me would go if given spins - Can we include joint efforts? if so, my favourite version of this song ( dunno which version was first so cant say whether it's a cover?) the interplay between male and female leads with silky backing singing, ooh err missus One last cheating one. Seems so obvious once you've listened to this that this song should always have been made as a male/female duet ( with Bobby Taylor and Frank Wilson paws on it, I'm amazed it wasn't a radio turntable hit at the very least. Catch those brass lines underpinning Levi and Jean as they're unable to stop pulling on each others heart strings. Ah well, if they'd all been hits we'd have nothing to chase after 40 odd years later)

Back when we were kids, we'd always play both sides of our records. Just because some record exec decided which was his favourite side, didn't mean we had to agree, so amongst my group of friends we'd have our own favourites, and of course Motown tracks were heavily featured. Not sure exactly but about 25 years later I was looking to add something to my dj set from my own collection as a new purchase hadn't arrived in time, and in desperation I went through an old box I'd not bothered much with for years, and saw this Supremes 45 I remembered from my schooldays. I gave it a quick listen and it sounded a near perfect match to what I was playing, so that nite I tried it out at Albrighton. I was surprised by both the instant floor reaction and the number of people coming up afterwards asking what it was. I'd assumed everybody knew it. I played it all over in the following weeks and months, even at the 100 Club, same reactions. It picked up life and because of availability took off all over, wherever folk judged tunes with their ears and not their wallets. I think what's odd about is that if you know it's the Supremes then it definitely sounds like the Supremes, but when you hear it in a Northern Soul setting it sounds like a midtempo Northern track and not Motown

Has anyone said Soul Joe Clements "Ever, Ever" yet ? - one of my all time favourite northern records

With this in mind I bought 2 spare decks (one dj deck & one battery/mains portable) thinking ' between these two they will see me out', but my plan to leave them boxed up until they were needed didn't last - although I recently packed one back away into the loft so if all else fails as long as there's electricity I shall be fine, or whoever ends up with my records after I'm gone will be fine ( but it's fairly easy to turn a deck at approx the right speed with your finger :-) That said every deck i've ever bought, going right back to the 60's, has been purchased with a spare stylus, so I suppose that proves I'm a belt and braces type of man.

I've looked through but can't find an answer to this, so sorry if this topic has been done before. My query is what is the story behind the yellow Cadet labels, some seem to be the only way to own certain titles.but other tunes appear on both the standard blue Cadet and the Yellow. For example Ive seen both colour variations when it comes to Marlena Shaw's "Lets Wade in The Water", but only ever seen yellow copies of The Dells "It's Up To You". With some, like Marlena's 45, where both exist I've seen the yellow ones described as both originals and second issues, and even as Canadian, but there's not any evidence on the label to suggest they are not of US origin, or am I missing some vital clue? With the yellow 70's sounding tunes in some cases I've seen white demo's, but not for all of them. Any Chess/Cadet/Checker fans out there who wanna suggest a theory ?

One US seller said that he decided what figure to put on the value label on the packet. When i queried it he said "Just because you crazy english want to bid this record up to 200 dollars doesn't mean that's what it's worth. I paid 50 cents for that 45, so in my opinion it's worth 50 cents, so I'll declare 50 cents". I suppose he's correct, the price somebody pays doesn't in itself make an item worth that value, if you offered a starving man a loaf of bread or a copy of Eddie Parker etc., or you could offer me the pick of the current big ticket funk records and a mars bar, and I'd take the mars bar and I don't even like mars bars ;-) and surely this is proven when you ask ten collectors who all own a copy of, for example, The Precisions " Such Misery" how much they think it's worth I'll bet they don't all answer with the same exact price, so to put "value" on something is purely up to each individual, but I bet the authorities don't see it like that !

The show was called the Basement Soul Show. Ive found a picture on the net of pretty much all of us Dave, but cannot copy it over here due to my ineptitude. Its on a Mickey Nold page with a video of one show with Ted - were we ever that young in the 90's ?

We used to do a radio show on PCRL which was only possible due to mini discs, and the keeping of a secret. I cant remember the name of the show, but the idea was that a bunch of us Soulies all met up to make this show, and we would take it in turns to play a record and then discuss it, kinda along the lines of the old Emperor Rosko's Round Table. It was supposed to sound like we were all there together, and to be fair, it did. The truth was somewhat different. We would turn up to Mickey’s studio, usually in pairs, on different days to record "our bit", I would usually do my part with Dave Rimmer and the host of the show, Mickey Nold, would record us (and later edit it) in such a way as to make it sound legit. What helped the overall effect was that you'd occasionally get visitors dropping in, usually the local lads, the likes of Ted Massey or Johnny Weston, Dave Allen, etc, (all or any of the others who were supposed to be there) and it made for a great show when we heard it back. I happily remember recording odd comments as though I’d just heard some tune John Weston played, and giving it a stellar reaction, fortunately I could rely on John’s taste ;-) The show ran for quite a long time, and a heck of a lot of decent, and very rare tunes got played, that otherwise would never have been heard on the airwaves, both weekly and the occasional special show (Christmas & Niters ) My favourite experience was coming out of a Stafford Top Of The World Reunion Nite, sometime in the mid 90’s, think it was at the Garth Hotel just outside Stafford, and as we were leaving at the end and getting into the cars, somebody shouted that they’d got the "All-Niter" on the radio, and that I must be a time traveller because I was speaking live introducing records, and to cap it all the tunes I was playing were all Stafford tunes! We took the longest way back so we could listen as we went along, eventually ending up at the legendary Greasy Lil’s cafe on the A5. We sat in the cars listening & sobering up until the show ended, before heading in for a full english. I hadn’t the heart to admit to those in our company that it had been recorded on a wet wednesday the week before - it would have taken all the glamour out of it - all thanks to the mighty mini disc, and their master, Mr. Mickey Nold

Shame DJ Harry will have to give up his record room when this bedroom tax comes in...... (just jealous, I loved having a record room & miss it