Mark Bicknell

Respect Dave, as always mate, the information from Andy Rix is first generation and from the source so i will be posting that up later, also we need to get Neil Rushton's input on this one as he seems to know the story behind this one.....Neil over to you? Regards - Mark Bicknell.

Dave, I'm not seeking approval from anyone mate certainly not you and i mean that in the nicest possible way, i simply asked the question without commiting the crime of god forbid breaking the unwritten rules of a select few if infact this record breaks those rules?, it turns out that there were infact at least three takes of the song originally recorded, the one sided promo version 'Original' is a different mix with possibly a different lead singer? the 1977 re - issue or whatever you wish to call it was also recorded in the 60's but is a Stereo mix, when Andy Rix allows me to post the email he sent me it will all be a little clearer...lol Yes Dave of course i know the answer when it comes to the playing of non originals and you know i don't do that, again i was simply trying to find out if the 45 in question is authentic in terms of it's origin rather than being pressed up by any Tom, Dick, Harry or Simon...lol as most of the so called re - issues were in the past, and on reflection perhaps seeking feedback, opinion and yes maybe approval, a great mix of a great song is the basis of my original post. Regards - Mark Bicknell.

Having listened to the 1977 re issue or whatever you want to call it, IMO there is no way that this record was recorded in 1977, the backing track is just not of that period, an email from Andy Rix who is not a member of 'Soul Source' pretty much confirms this and when he replies to my request to cut and paste his comments and observations i will do so. Regards - Mark Bicknell.

It would seem that most of us agree on this that it's a different mix from the original 66/67 'BreakThrough' issue and a bloody good one at that, not heard back from Mr Diamond with his comments, might not even get a reply....lol i think the comments raised about a disc dub from a tape of an exclusive record or one off is a very different issue? and does this go on? lol. I'm simply just trying to play by the rules if there are any? Regards - Mark Bicknell.

Thanks Sean for your well thought out and very constructive comments here, like i said i'm not trying to move the goal posts here just trying to i guess justify the inclusion of a different and what seems to be a legit re - record, different mix or whatever, many unissued recordings have found there way onto the scene in recent years be it directly from a master tape via the likes of Ady Croasdell and Kent Records for example or from Dubs taken from CD's etc. with or without the consent or knowledge of the source of the material, the 'Chris Clark' track taken form the Universal Anthology springs to mind and was out there pretty quickly when the CD was issued......why? it's a top track is the answer, yes you could simply play it directly from the CD rather than a disc dub but that's the choice i guess of the person and the Northern ethic or playing something that resembles a record, stuff like Al Williams - 'Try Them' and The Servicemen - 'I'll Stop Loving You', Eddie Holman - 'Hold Me In Your Arms' put out by Grapevine are just three examples here of outstanding unissued material that simply need playing off any format simply again because this music needs playing, it gives the scene a different dimension, more music to go at and enjoy and is a seperate issue to the original versus bootleg debate i think. I have been DJ'ing on this scene for about twenty six years from about 1980/81 and after being pulled up one night at Hinckley way back for playing Jimmy Mack - 'My World Is On Fire' on Soul Galore from a well known DJ who was due on just after me and who is still around today who basically said "Why are you playing that as I have it on Palmer"????? For me the penny dropped and from that day to this i have never played anything less than a record on it's first generation USA Original at a live venue, out of respect to the point raised by the DJ, being true to myself as a Rare Soul DJ, basically if i wanted to continue DJ'ing then it had to be done correctly from my own personal perspective and i choose to do it the most authentic way i know how, i guess the point here is that in the main most DJ's if they are totally honest would rather play original 45's it's the nature of the game.Yes it's about entertainment, filling the floor and doing the best you can, but in the Northern Soul DJ world it's a lot to do with reputaion, depth and quality of collection, time served and yes original records i'm sorry but i don't care what anyone says this fact plays a major part and i'm sorry but saying it don't matter is simply a poor excuse and a way to justify cutting corners....bugger i did'nt want to turn this into what i've turned it into...lol I'm not talking about being anti bootleg here as this conversation and debate will continue as long as the scene lasts, i guess it's a personal issue. And this is why i basically asked the question on the Charles Diamond 45? is it authentic? it would seem yes, is it legit? it would seem yes, so do i play it out? maybe yes, or do i wait until 'Ted' sells me his first generation 60's Orange BreakThrough copy which will be when hell freezes over....lol or do i simply stick with the purist attitude and ethic and play something else? Regards - Mark Bicknell.

Has Simon not posted both versions above Ted. Mark Bicknell.

Wow! forgot Ted that's a bit good mate, still the other mix holds it own....what you reckon musically a draw? both versions are the dogs bollocks i think...lol and different so perhaps not a bootleg against original debate more of two versions of a fantastic song. Mark Bicknell.

Thanks Simon for posting both versions, i don't have the tecnology to do that nor the original version....lol Regards - Mark Bicknell.

Ok. however, the original was cut around 1966 was it not? if it is a re record then they nailed it really well, some 11 years on if the re record was done in 1977, i'm gonna try and email Mr Diamond and see if he can give the full story, see what happens? Regards - Mark Bicknell.

Don't swear at me Ken...lol Mark Bicknell.

I guess that's my whole point Steve, in instances like this perhaps the original only rule can be wavered, was it a total re record? i thought it was just a different mix, as Pete S stated also a longer version. Thanks for your comments. Regards - Mark Bicknell.

Best we don't turn this thread into yet another 'Originals versus Boots' thing again, i was simply wishing to confirm my thoughts that this 45 is a legit re issue rather than an unofficial bootleg. Regards - Mark Bicknell.

Good points Sean, i guess some of us set ourselves up way back, old school and all that, must collect and play originals, still we all know in the cold light of day that this is not always the case, i too remember it being played way back possibly this version? sometimes this purist attitude in playing original authentic records can be a negative aspect of the DJ thing, so load your torpedoes as i might bang it in The Winsford spot, a top tune. Regards - Mark Bicknell.

So that's Ted's, Mick Smith who has the other couple of copies then?, looks like Charles Diamond only has the second issue? and if Ted has it i might just put mine back on the shelf and enjoy it at home but not at the gigs, would be against the grain for me like i said, it was just a question and deep down i know the answer, thanks. Regards - Mark Bicknell.

Good points there Baz, as Pete said the second issue sounds much fuller in sound than the original, love the tune to bits me and i may consider the odd spin out and about but not if we are gonna get shot down in flames....lol Mark Bicknell.

Cheers Pete, of course Mick Smith has it but i bet there are not many more out there, i knew it was an Orange original seen a scan of it, so the one i have is a legit re issue as i suspected then? Regards - Mark Bicknell.

Just soughting the boxes out for the Winsford Allnighter on Saturday and i'm so tempted to include Charles Diamond And The Inspirations - No One Else Can Take Your Place - Break Through B81582T - Can anyone confirm what the story is on this record? i picked it up several years ago for about £20.00 knowing of course it was not an authentic first generation copy as that is dog rare with maybe two or three reasonable condition originals out there? a record that has remained ultra rare and hard to find. Am i correct in thinking that the copy i have is a legit re issue dated 1977? put out by Joey Jefferson also am i correct that this is a slightly different mix? to the original and am i also correct that even the second issue goes for a few quid, bit of a dilema really as because of the lack of originals this fantastic record never hardly gets played and it's up there with the best of them, being from the 'when i DJ' i play authentic records camp and i'm not gonna start now or am i moving the goal posts here i just feel are there any circumstances where such tunes on a second issue should get the odd spin being that some attitudes have changed these days towards what format the tunes come via, i have played it on the show several times and stated it's the second press, i would be interested to know if there are any current DJ's who have an original of this record, i suspect Tim Brown, Kenny Burrell may have it but i'm not totally sure, is it best left to them to play it if the mood is right or do we give the 1977 copy a go? Regards - Mark Bicknell.

Records like this are the core of the Northern Soul scene, quality pure and simple, i have a Pink Demo as the bottom scan supplied here but have also had a coule of copies again Pink ones with the labels reversed still sold well for around £150.00 even back a few years ago now, found two of them next to each other at a record store on West 63rd Street, Chicago (not the Record Dugout either) for $4.00 each and yet the guy would not sell me The Fasinators - In Other Words for any amount of money....lol Regards - Mark Bicknell.

I'm with you on that one Mandy, that's the main reason i did not attend that Stafford reunion in Stoke???? like i said Guy and myself did go down to 'The Concorde' a couple of years ago and sat infront of The Royal British Legion Commitee but they were really not interested in having us back so looks like the venue will have to be remembered fondly i'm glad to see here, oh you can imagine what Jacqui said when i mentioned we do another gig....lol to rude to repeat here Mandy...lol Mark Bicknell.

I always thought the Gold ones were much harder to locate than the Red and White copies? having said that i'm on my second Gold copy, bought the first one for £18.00 way back sold it, then replaced with my now copy for £30.00 also a bit back now, i've seen more Red and White ones for sale in recent years than the Gold ones, all in all does it matter which copy you go for or hold in the collection, should be all about the quality of a record rather than lable or quantity around and available, always make me chuckle when a tune becomes popular and there are only a handful of copies out there, demand increases price then a 25 or 50 count turns up word gets out and either they slip out one by one at the inflated price or the market is flooded price drops and so does the appeal and interest, funny that don't you think? when as i say it should be about the quality of a record rather than the cudos of owning something which not too many people have, in my opinion when more copies turn up it just means collectors of the music have a more honest and fair chance of owning a copy? Example would it make any difference if say 100 copies of the Four Tracks - Like My Love For You - Mandigo surfaced which has to be a £1000.00 record these days, would it make it any less of a record if this happened? personally i don't think so. It would simply mean that more people who desire to collect original soul 45's would be able to obtain simply a great record rather than a trophy. Regards - Mark Bicknell.

Russ, PM ME mate, i have a red USA stock/issue that i might part with, never really play it that much so if the price is right then maybe we can work something out, not sure of the condition but i remember it plays well, not sure of the value but if a USA Demo is around £100.00???? then issues must be a little less or it might be as with 'Mel Williams' issues being harder than the Demo? not sure, anyhow we might be able to cut a deal, will trade for Poets - She Blew A Good Thing - Symbol Demo.....lol now that is hard to find? Regards - Mark Bicknell.

Me too at Winsford too Tony....lol Mark Bicknell.

I know let's have a revival...lol only joking best to enjoy the memories instead of reliving them.....lol never gonna happen but as a one off would be nice. Regards - Mark Bicknell.

Keith, one thing about this scene mate is when the chips are down people show support and respond, i had problems recently with funding for the radio show and after posting on here well the suport and response was awesome, i will be giving the website a shout for you on this coming Sunday's ahow mate as promised, hope it helps. I think most record dealers have lean times at some stage and possibly currently things are slowing down a little for everyone, keep at it. Regards - Mark Bicknell.

I'll certainly try Ted, might just be there myself mate. Mark Bicknell.