jocko

Modern and moderately funky tracks belong in the Modern or Funk room. End of Story! I cant quote from posts during day so I have lifted the words directly and inserted them here in bold. If you are not saying people who have differing views are wrong (or their views are invalid, same meaning from where I stand) then please explain and I will apologise for misquoting you. particularly your very strong End of Story statement. I was part of a scene where for the first 10 years (79-89) it was very common to play 70's record (aka Modern here I suggest), some slightly funky, (Billy Nichols, Curtis as early as end of Wigan) in one room along with standard 60's soul (aka Northern) therefore my view is that is perfectly acceptable and enjoyable when the right records are chosen. My reading is your End Of Story statement above suggests you dont think that is acceptable, fine you dont like it but that is the way the scene evolved and no matter how much you try and re-write history based on your experience pre 1976 can change that. Your choice is to participate or leave, as was mine when the scene evolved into something I didn't personnally like. Some of the tracks mentioned were tracks that had developed the way Northern/Motown SHOULD have developed. Again a direct lift, I was trying to get to what you really mean by this, this highlighting of the word SHOULD seems obvious I would suggest but I assumed you couldnt be that personally arrogant to expect a constantly evolving culture to fit our definitions. If you read my posting I am actually asking a question, apologies for the missing question mark but would suggest the intonation is clear otherwise. I am genuinely interested in what you mean by this. Whilst I understand Pete's not Mr Godin's biggest fan but I hope even he would see Dave Thorley's quotation from David Godin is one of his most pertinent and scarily even more true for todays times (both soul comments and political comments!) Last point, when the Cats/Torch/Mecca (pre NY Disco)Casino were playing the Northern soul we all danced to and collected, how many on here were going to the clubs in London, or Chris Hills venues to listen to Funk. Not many!!! We were all trying to bloody avoid it! And just in case you want to question my pre 1976 assumption above it was based on this statement, for clarity are you saying you want the scene to be like it was in these days, when I suspect you were a youngster? If so good for you, lots of local soul nights on 8-1 which I believe are great places for this, good luck to you, I just prefer a scene that progresses which is why I am now only a very occasional visitor. Now we have people who want to listen to funk at a Northern do. How many people at a funk do want to listen to northern? And now we have the crux of the matter, and the point that seems to have been lost, I like most others are not saying here that I do necessarily want to hear Funk as I think of it (heavy bass led records from people like Slave & Brass Construction) when I go to a Northern do (I would prefer to call it rare soul also but that is another days argument). However pretty sure thats not what people on here are calling funk, I am not sure other than Jason and James any 2 people are meaning the same when they discuss funk on this thread. Like all genres these days there are a million meanings, and I think the original meaning on this thread is soul records that are funky rather than what Jason highlights quite rightly as a non natural fit. Funky soul has in my opinion been part and parcel of this scene for ever (I only know for ever from 79 remember!) I think the saddest thing about this the people with the best views of the Northern scene on this thread have been 3 of our funky boys (Gino, James and Jason,) maybe thats because we are all too far up our own backsides worrying about the predominate beat or the cut of cloth most around when we were 17 to just listen to the music and judge with our ears and our feet. And I repeat not saying you have to like it, but despite your protestations Brian you are doing exactly what you and Pete protest about, by saying if it doesnt fit your definition it doesnt get in the gang! Most interesting was Mr Wright only one to suggest it is all about soul, sad thing for me is Northern scene now, or majority of it, have gone back to losing any connection with the wider soul music genre and any sort of progression is now a major uphill battle and as a result the music will suffer IMVHO!

Okay maybe a bit more in this thread than I first thought, maybe need to waste some of my working day tomorrow reading this a bit more, in meantime however, not sure I get above. What Northern scene are you talking about here Brian, I was pretty active on going out from 79-95 and what highlighted above in red was a huge part of my experience of the Northern scene, I assume your timespan was different so therefore are you saying that your experience is more valid than mines??? Are you seriously saying that Black American music should have developed in a way to suit our narrow tastes with the second part. I totally agree with Petes comments in other threads (maybe not quite so in this one) that if you only like 60's good on you, nobody should try and make you feel inferior for that, but the above basically says your experience is the only valid one!! Sorry mate, I spent many a good year with people, including unbelievably dedicated guys like Mr Thorley above, on a scene that we loved, you dont have the right to say its not valid. You have every right to say its not for you, or you dont like what these people made the scene, I certainly did around 95 when the hordes returned and turned it into the egotistical circus much of it is today. You say you respect others views but the above clearly doesn't.

Having read only half this thread (reading backwards and scanning some very quickly admittedly) this is the most pertinent post and assuming I am right in what I think I get in Mr Sunnys drift the most accurate!! This is one of the many debates that cant really be answered there are 47,000 views on what Northern is these days so to throw a 47,001st definition in doesnt really get us any further forward does it!!

I am pretty sure I have the 7 and 12 and home Gareth so will try and remember to play them both tonight.

Herb Ward - Strange Change surely the ultimate fingersnapper, followed closely by Kenny Gamble The Jokes On You although an equal amount of people seem to hate that as much as love it for some reason!

Theres also a Buddy Lamp 70's track on this I think, has anyone heard that, any more details of the label and any other releases?

Hallo Mr Allen, one of my favorite people from back in the allegedly "dark and dismal" 80's, hope you are doing as well as you can, take it easy and I will give you another big sloppy kiss on your forehead next time I see you if you dont behave! Look after yourself big man, hope to see you sometime Jock O'Connor.

Not in the slightest obscure, massive record all the way through the 80's (Are you just being modest Mr Hampsey with your 3 months comment) great record. And yes the George Jackson version is equally renowned ampng the soul fans on here surely!

Yes, but not the main act Showmen that you are thinking of probably. I will try and find more info and post up. I bought the Biily Stewart off Ady Pierce and there are a couple still on Gemm.

Jeez Pete, 2 seriously rare albums, particularly the Gloria Barnes, I have never actually seen one in the flesh. And more to the point not only seriously rare but seriously brilliant album, too rich for me but someone is going to get some seriously heavy duty stuff there!! Jock

Anyone got a copy of his No Girl for sale, havent really done the online searches for it so been lazy here and hoping to get it for a good price on here (remember I am a tight git! ) And slightly off topic anyone ever see the version by the Showmen these days, or even better have a sound clip of it. Not sure how rare this turned out to be, one of the many fine plays back in the day from the ever sauve Mr Dean Anderson!

HI Marc, might be interested, cant PM here at the moment, will contact you tonight (or PM me your email and I can contact you that way). Cheers Jock

Does the WD have Slave Girl on flip or is it double side CODWM?

Apologies just read this properly you dont want the Polydor one, DOH, sorry cant edit my comment at work!

I have this on Polydor, assume same record, if so will try tonight but having difficulty with my USB turntable still!

Of course not, just another person that does not particularly like soul music, preferring instead dance records of various genres I am assuming. However since you seem one of the nicest blokes on here I should feel guilty about saying that out loud. Like Pete Smith, you are at least honest in your preferences Simon and I should give you credit for that. My gin bottle is dry, so last word on this great subject I am off for a snooze and a limoncella, not sure in which order.

So what disco fans are you referring to now, give us a bit more insight into this group of people you are so dismissive off, are you saying there is a separate disco scene, where and what sort of records do they play. I assume you are familiar with the French Boogie scene (nicer name than disco but just disco music still the same) Are you actually saying that only Northern fans are overwhelmed. please, I think there is enough evidence otherwise I am sure your posts are mildly amusing to many others, but as have said before stick to the facts, rewriting history through humour is equally dangerous. And in case you are wondering I am a huge disco fan, so am obviously deeply hurt by your statements above. However dont think I mean the same as the majority on here when I talk about disco , in fact not sure I could totally define easily as you obviously can, can you enlighten me on what disco actually is?

All 4 are great disco records, as I assume you agree. Good examples and good points. Will put clips of these up after my dinner party where we are going to debate the history of post 60's music influence, or indeed lack of, on the greater world.....not !

I will assume your irony will be missed by most on here so will just be a bit obvious by saying 10 years too late, its obviously already here!!

I rest my case your honour! Unbelievable, why dont you write a thesis on why Afro-American culture stopped in 1969 because someone from Wales didnt like how the music changed. FFS David Irving has been jailed for less scurrilous points of view. If what you are saying is you dont like the changes fine, but stop trying to rewrite f*****g history. What next, Barbara Mills for first Black American president. I need a lie down

Oh shit, 4th time this week I have agreed with you, my street cred is fading, I need to get out more! Disco is just the continuing evolution of one of the greatest art forms produced in the 20th Century, which continues to be produced, albeit much less of it, to this day, Afro-American music, or Black music as it is now often referred to. It is probably one of the most exciting forms of the uptempo parts of this genre, when done correctly, and this is the important bit I suggest. It is an integral part of the soundtrack of our dance culture that America has so thankfully provided us. As usual on here people throw the John Travolta type comparison on which shows their ignorance of the genre (unless you have JT's superb grasp of irony) and more importantly the history of the music they pretend to love. I despair more and more on here when it is fairly obvious many do not have a clue what soul is or its evolution 2 quotes this week - all modern is not soul, its crud, both meant to be funny no doubt, but in reality their poor attempt at humour is just highlighting their ridiculous poor grasp of soul music. I agree with Pete S, I do not think you should like all forms of NS and its descendants, saying as Pete does its not for him due to the differing styles is fair enough, but to dismiss it as part of the Soul family as many others do is frankly ridiculous. Either learn a little more about our music or STF up. Please. Yes I have a raging hangover, but also just getting fed up at the way the majority on here want to take any connection with real soul music out of the Northern scene, its time for fightback and the beauty of real soul, which obviously many on here do not get but will not admit, should be celebrated not hidden due to comments like it was made on 01/01/70 so its not soul. Off for another gin. Jock O'Connor

I have a version of this by Freddie Waters that I mean to keep posting, much slower, not the original but definitely most soulful, will post up later tonight Cheers Jock

North By Northeast - Pain Of City Living it twas you was it not

Ahh sorry to bust your additional fame Mr Womble, but our very own Mark Bicknell (I think it was him anyway) reviewed this in print within the last few years (SUN?), I remember very well as sounded interesting and didnt think I had heard it, bought it blind for about £8, thought what a great tip, went to place it lovingly on the shelves only to find an almost unplayed one already there, had no memory of buying it or hearing! So great sound, well chuffed now ass I look forward to its 100 times appreciation and my future pension fund contribution, but before anyone asks I gave the spare away as it was such a cheapie! Doh

Just put one up in the Crossover Friday thread. Cheers Jock