jocko

Yes but it was made for people like you who were never on the scene until their later years. So job done. Your repeated mantra of Wigan was shit because of your one night there, shows why the scene of your days was full of Divs, and they continue to breed.

Read carefully Ian, I didn't say you had, I referred to others, and its clearly documented what others had said and evidence on this thread alone of others rewriting history. My whole post on that, and my frustration, is directed at your challenge on Byrnie’s definition of returnees. People seem to take that as some sort of insult, and some then rewrite history to get round it. So I am challenging your perception that any of the people you mentioned had any influence, and more importantly deserve credit for the 80s onwards, with some of the names trying desperately to discredit people and venues involved and rewrite history. Its my pet hate. This wasn’t a comment on the documentary, hence why I am saying its off topic. I have commented above, and admitted to being pleasantly surprised at some of the people who I normally expect to just talk about themselves. I didn’t really expect it to go any further. And still say I wouldn’t have wanted it to, other than in a part 2. And again I have never said any period was necessarily better, and totally agree, as I have said elsewhere, people’s era would and should define their glory years. However the 80’s onwards has always been a period specific people have tried to change and comment out. Its in the documentary with one of the names. So I think that’s worth challenging your theory that all these people have been super enthusiastic, its just not true. It’s a constant frustration why specific people try to change that and won’t accept it happened happily, and better in all honesty, without them. Its about credit where credits due.

Its got some interesting titles that on first glance make you think of long hair and smoking dodgy fags, but on closer inspection I wouldn't be surprised if it was primarily Black music? However I don't know 99% of them so its just a guess. Any further insight Mr S? And as for Tommy Dent being pop, I don't get that at all, he may be blue eyed but I would say thats a heavy piece of Black music. Judging a piece of music as soul or not purely based on its Northernability as some of the early posts do does make me chuckle.

F88k me, I am a soul snob and a crossover king, and I think Tommy Dent would have me gliding side to side over the dance floor any time. Sounds like the messy excitement sort of thing that would work at 3am. Mind so would the United Sounds, just slower and maybe a little back to front glide rather than side to side. Its not often I get the chance to agree completely with Steve G, so a childish high five down to his Ivory tower in Londinium, since he is completely correct.

Okay Mr D, I have gone from your biggest fan to back to wanting to give you a kicking (verbally obviously having seen the size of you )! Of course you are a returnee in definition, as was I before I scarpered quickly back to my armchair and consolation gin realising that life was no longer for me! This isn't about Levine now searching deep for records, hats off to him, or a bunch of people with vested interst warbling on the phone, its about physical involvement on a scene, during a specific period. You and the people above had no involvement in the scene that people were around in for the years being discussed, at least 3 of the names you mentioned have been off the scene far longer than being on it. Colin Curtis has even said on FB that he shouldn't be asked about Northern after 1977 and kudos to him for being honest. Why can't the rest of you get that. Its not in any way saying you have had no interest in music, its the input and more importantly the respect for a scene that people scarpered from, like the crew of the Titanic ,in my view partly due to a peoples revolution from inside and partly due to the fact it was too hard work, digging and discovering had changed and the concept had changed. And lets be honest, for some ofthe names mentioned, because there wasn't enough money to be made. All of these names mentioned had no interest and no involvement in the missing years, at least two of them were publicly stating the Northen of then was pish. You might still have been turning records over, although there is no evidence of that in said period, and you might have been doing great thing with MasterCuts etc, all of which I bought , but you were about as visible as HG Wells Griffin, and to my eyes as involved in the Northern scene as Gerrard was in the World Cup. None of this is meant as in insult, or derogotary, everyone makes choices, and quite frankly if I had been faced with your life choices at that time, pretty sure I would have followed you exactly, not sure I would have still been alive to type, but sure I would have had a great time. Its also not about disrespecting the contribution people made either, in most cases all have had some influence over my Northern Scene and indeed my life, for which I am thankful, and in yours and Curtis's case a massive influence outside the Northern scene in my music world. But what galls and gets people angry, and why you got so much stick when you first returned,is you don;t seem to get above. If you read there are others constantly rewriting history (Keele and Winsford the main venues in 1990, ffs, ) , the constant snipes at places like the 100 club, the constant talking about numbers, constant self promotion skipping over missing years etc etc and the unwillingness to give credit to what happened and with who. Its hugely frustrating. As someone else said, looking at the scene as whole, until the complete takeover of the Nostalgia scene its been an evolution, there have been periods of revolution, which the 80's was a period, no matter what people try and say, partly reaction to the changing times but also because a whole new crowd took over. If you don't get why people get annoyed at your statements like above, and more importantly the constant lies others make, then you are never going to get it. Its always played down by people who weren't there, or have a vested interest in changing the history. Why can't people accept that. We are getting so far off topic and so far back to where we were a few years ago, and as I said I shouldn't care but I do. And your statement is so wrong in so many ways. As I am sure I have misquoted before most History is only his story, and too many muppets think they are him. And a correct quote is respect should be a two way thing, and some people above are quite frankly so disrespectful I cannot believe they get away with it from people I think should know better.

F@@k just as due to various reasons I realise I need to downsize you lot get bored and flood the markets! B@@tards the lot of you.

It's only that latter bit that's been odd is it not.......

100% correct, rewriting to make today's watered down product conform, which it doesn't. A good reason why the real history needs to be written David!

Oh and to try and get back on topic, I though the documentary was okay, one of the more articulate, in dialogue and in filming, and people like Ian Levine and Colin Curtis actually came across well on this. Nothing new, but there is probably nothing new to say about that period. And obviously no new footage. The celebrity bit was laughable as usual, but to be fair these are obviously people that are being recommended by people in the know! And the tribute to Fran was genuine and lovely. A lovely woman who loved and lived that era. To be honest I am glad it didn't say anything about the later phase, most people on there, as was proven by Kev’s comments, just wouldn’t get it anyway so lets keep it separate. As that scene has borne the bastard child that is much of todays monstrosity. I am quite happy not to be associated with that. If its not big its not good would appear to be the theme. Lets just chuckle quietly, and quietly mockingly at those who don’t get it, as was the theme of the later years……..

I just typed a 400 word reply to Mr Robert's in response to his usual disrespectful and uninformed comments, but deleted it, thankfully. Waste of breath. You say it much better. Its like comparing Waitrose to Aldi's both have their uses and both have their market sector, only in the strange planet that holds the multitude of Northern scenes would the director of Poundshop pretend he is in same market as Waitrose. And thank you for choosing one of the very few pictures that features me, even if it only from behind

I suppose I was trying to understand if it was just a tempo thing, or indeed a quality thing. I think the quality thing is always easier to evaluate with hindsight, apart from a few howlers at the the time (Marty Thompson anyone) I would have said that the quality then was unbeatable, but as always when you look back you realise there were more than a few, much more than a few, howlers that don't stand the test of time. But the true quality hopefully lasts. I think thats the same for all eras I suspect. And whats in the moment is always, as it should be, the best. I don't think this current era will last as well as others however, except for those who weren't around much previously. But again only time will tell if I am just bitter or a prophet! And we now digress from Mr Manship's worst week ever, but still better than anyone else could achieve. Discuss.

SO what is the difference between today's "progressive" scene and the 80's?

It seemed to do all right back in the day, not in my top 1000 but its certainly not a bad record. And as for not dance floor friendly, the alternative view of that is due to the much poorer quaility of punter and promotoer in todays world, what is deemed to be dancefloor friendly records these day seem to need to be very one dimensional to suit the hard of thinking! Its all about perceptions really isn't.

I think Keb played it very briefly, and c/u, as I had it at home at the time he played, not sure if that was just in his flat or if he played it out. I had it courtesy of Colin Bee for £2.50 around 1980. NOt sure what made my buy that, but always remember buying that and Claudell McKell Experience is The Best Teacher, along with some boots I suspect, from Colin Bee. Must have read about them somewhere is the only thing I can think of. They both stayed on shelves unloved for nigh on 30 years never took to it myself and never thought it sounded right, so sold it recently for a huge profit, although not as huge as it could have been by the looks of it. Seems to have turned out to be quite scarce, if not rare!

[ I remember from our discussion at Christmas mate, but also your promotions are tireless, so as always credit where credits due. And we wont talk about reduction in salaries or Kegsy will get confused what forum we are in and be in like a flash, telling us its all in our minds, we are all much better together! And I don’t think that would be a good deal for you, sadly. My financial advice has always been if you have it spend it, twice, and sadly that’s coming home to roost. I can make sure your accounts add up, and even better show you how to do that in fancy automated ways, but how to make the money work better, or last longer still seems way beyond me. One thing I will say is don’t buy any Financial Services actual products for the next few years, till things settle. You can have that for free, just don’t sue me if its wrong! I appreciate you aren’t used to hearing the words you are right Roddy, so I wont say them, at least not completely. Your damning of my financial advice based on my financial management over the years is fair, but as for the rest my body is now a temple, and haven’t had a Guinness for nearly 3 months, since Cleggy in fact. And since I already have my onsite caravan for Cleggy next year my management skills are obviously worth paying for!

If you slotted the word legitimate in the original paragraph wouldn't you get away with it.

And they are off........

Well Peter, you know I am far too modest to say I am by far the best candidate, so feel free to do so on my behalf when you bump into Ian on one of your many superstar jaunts into that London town. And I have already booked same caravan for next year for Cleethorpes, so be nice to me.......

You are a miserable old bugger Steven, see why you moved to Aberdeen, fit right in with those grumpy gits. You need more fights with your neigbourhood picts to take all this frustration And its nothing like that at all, its like a marketing tool used to publicise and fund a very expensive film that happens to feature Northern Soul, and therefore the marketing team are thankfully clever enough to choose a relevant product, like people in film world do. Its funny how when Numero do this everyone has premature ejaculation of praise, but because its related to the film everyone comes out with their Father Time death robes declaring the end of Northern Soul time (while not having been to an allnighter for years). Based on other products lots of people collect these things, and lots of these people have no interest in DJing, so no, its nothing like what you say Steven. Its not for me, but then niether was the Motown one or the Numero one and surely that is a more relevant comparison than some desparate DJ, drooling over a spot to his 12 pals! And Mr Dewhirst, you are definitely the hardest working man in showbiz! I may tease you, but I do take my hat off to you, Pity you aren't making enough to take on an enthusiastic young (ish) apprentice.

Pass on my best wishes. Shared a few beers with him on a couple of occassions long time ago, lovely chap and great storys, and he loved winding Tim up which was always funny :-)

Did you have a Salvadors for sale? How did I miss that. How much did it go for? Still one of the greatest Northern records ever produced, regardless of where it was recorded, label colour, it gets the dangly bits standing to attention straight out from the intro. Or is that just me.....

The big metal lockings one are still the dogs b*llocks, until you try and lift them, and I suspect they would take up a whole families luggage allowance on a plane. But they look the business and you can get lots in and some CD's in the front so they win for me, especially as the one I have was free, aka borrowed from a mate, about 4 years ago! As an aside, I did my first DJing of a memory stick last weekend, and apart from the fact it included Calvin Harris and David Guetta, I think I could get used to 4000 tracks in my pocket! OVO, pah I stomp on it, OWHDO from now on.....

Eh shouldn't you be answering that question I told you all those years rubbing your balls red and then hitting them with a big bat would affect you long term!

If you are going to play with us big boys on here in the record collecting world you are going to have to realise that facts are secondary to shouting the loudest, and logic is where we write the things we make up........

It was £30 and obviously very in demand going so quickly. Obviously on the up this one, and I assume it would be opportune moment to mention I have one sitting unloved on the sales shelf.......