jocko

Most US vocal house has 4/4 beat and many have great vocals. is this the new Northern? 5000 word thesis required on this I think!

[quote name='Ian Dewhirst' date='Jun 19 08, 11:44 PM' post='796180' But I have to tell you that I've found enough DYNAMITE Northern/Modern stuff via blog-digging over the last 12 months to make me wonder how come the stuff is not being played. You know that I'm digging around 'cos I post the occasional thing elsewhere and I'm finding STACKS of 'em. Some known, some not. If I was allowed to download stuff to SS (I'm not a fan of Refro thingy) I'd happily stick 20 killers up here right now. I'm STUNNED by what's out there and equally stunned by what's not being played.

I think Lifeline all nighter is as close as you can get, Butch and Andy D being so ahead of the rest its scary, although they are well supported by Mick H Cliff Steele and the other guys, Its as close to perfect as you can get, despite their still being a multitude of the something different brigade putting something on same night as it, I absolutely laugh at those on here that have said recently the smaller nights can do it better than these guys. Ian mate you got to remember you have missed out on almost 30 years of scene evolution, things have changed. 80's and 90's something different was the norm, not only was it expected it was demanded by all present, deadwood had drifted off and basically smaller scene purer ethics. Its only the last 10 years its fallen apart with 1million dj's and 999k soul nights, all allegedly doing something different but really all seem to be just following ground that has been well and truly trodden, they are comparing themselves with the worst oldies nights rather than things like Lifeline, or else they would surely realise they shouldn't compete!

Okay define soul in that context and compare it with a straight ahead Northern record and 60's R&B record so I can understand your context.

I am glad I read this backwards or would have had a go at you for earlier statements I don't think many people now have a problem with this Pete, you have argued this view well, I particularly agree with the preaching bit, although like most people when I hear a record I love for the first time, I can be a bit over the top in sharing. I think the view on what is "Northern" also depends on when you came along, I started big time in 79, so 70's records were the norm to me, but not to a lot of the busload going home who would throw things at me for dancing to "newies" (I also dont remember the term Modern Soul from then), not really sure they differentiated about 70's etc. As to what is a Modern Soul record, its different things to different people, and really if you do know about post 60's stuff, you will expect different kinds of modern depending on DJ/Venue. I do agree with Steve G (again) it seems daft calling 70's records etc Modern, but no dafter in reality than calling the wide selection of music we call Northern. Each to their own, I just expect a majority of Soul music whereever I go and I will choose the venue depending on what era I want to hear, arguably a good position. Only last comment is all the "born again" Northerners, many who ironically are now discovering 70's, are now doing to these what they did to 60's oldies and turning them into the records that make you wake up in a cold sweat at the thought of hearing it again.............maybe that will stop them being called Modern!!

Bazz that is one of the most ridiculous comments on here yet (and that is saying something). Denise LaSalle has no soul!!!, And you are judging it on its a 70's backing against a 60's forget the f**ck*g voice behind it. That just shows a gross misunderstanding of soul music (and we are not talking Northern here, you said soul) and to quote your phrase you obviously just don't get it. I have no issue with people just liking Northern on a 60's basis, but why people with this taste only then preach on what is soul and what is not is just ridiculous. Go and listen to a Denise LaSalle ballad or a Soul Children 70's LP and tell me they are not soul F**k sake, its times like this you realise just how many Northern fans don't actually like soul. Thank F**k I am young enough to have come along when I did (late 70's), thanks to Searling, Salter, Hampsey Mannion Paul "Trouble" Anderson etc etc I am proud to be a soul fan who also happens to like soulful Northern. Another gin waiter, forget the tonic.

Can we now close this with my favourite philosophical statement "You either get it or you don't, those who don't carry on in your own plastic world" Camus 1974. Although when we have promoters on here saying it doesn't matter maybe my idealistic state of play really doesn't exist, thank god for the gin numbing it all away.

Your research is immense Bob, just amazing. I would never have thought these Hogs were even remotely related to the Stang ones (even though it is remote). Brilliant mate, off to listen to some of your radio shows now. Cheers for the information Jock

HI there mate, is this a vinyl LP you are selling. Is there a CD release also?

I think its amazing how many share this view nowadays, totally agree. Does this mean we can ban this discussion in future and anyone starting it gets sent to Coventry for a week. Still think the real answer is if you have to ask you should have your vinyl, original or otherwise, confiscated!!

An interesting extension to this debate for me would be to ask (a) Is there anyone out there promoting a soul night who doesn't DJ at it. (B ) There have been at least 20 new nights advertised in last few months (i) Are the promoters djing at this new do? (ii) Do they dj anywhere else? (iii) Exactly what is the something different they are bringing to the table? Just something to cheer up a quiet night.

[quote name='little-stevie' date='Jun 16 08, 12:37 AM' post='792645' Its like history in reverse... All the indians are dead and there are 300 genral custers shooting at each other .. Time for bed

Sorry Mark but surely stuff like this doesn't have a place today, its absolutely awful, lowest common denominator for this and one that assumes the punters have no quality control surely. I am glad I am retired when I hear things like this, just makes a mockery of the scene (or multitude of scenes should that be) IMVHO, sorry,

If you actually take the time to read all the words, then you will see I was there at the time, unlike many in this argument I didn't dissapear for 20 years after that time, during that time my tastes developed, I got to understand the genre better, and my understanding leads me to believe this not working now has nothing to do with an age thing. Its because its very poor imitation of the real thing and a soulless record with little actual merit, other than a pleasant memory. Let me know if I need to explain any of the above to you in more detail!

Yes, Buy the fantastic CD The Masqueraders Unmasked on Grapevine and it tells the story, go on buy it, play it to death (at home only obviously) and put some money in the groups pockets.

Dave this is just getting silly beyond belief, whats the script here? So you see a covers band billed at Wolverhampton legion singing Northern soul top hits (and I believe they are out there), you are going to say oh no won't bother going to the all-nighter, will go to see the band instead, they might sound just as good. Are you really saying you would do that.

I can't believe this, last year when there was talk of a film with Northern as part of storyline being made there was an outcry on here saying how it wouldn't capture the real image and how it was ridiculous all these non scene people were taking the p**s out of the scene, majority were mad and up in arms against it. Bizarrely sure at least a couple of these people are now on here defending a f*****g musical with a covers band playing. Everyone and their dog now seems to thing such a bast***isation is now okay. I just don't get it, it defies logic and stinks of complete hypocrisy and double standards. I said at the time, I love the theatre and fairly regularly attend but the original play of this was one of the most important pieces of Theatre ever to me, not just cause it captured the feeling and the time and the people just right, which it did, but it was a piece of Theatre about me, my mates and our lives. That was special. And Mel I don't think its fair to say there cliches in original plays, they were truths of that time and that group of people, maybe not your truth but certainly was for people of my time Joe should be right in that it shouldn't matter as we will all be just ignoring it, but obviously an awful lot of "genuine" soul fans on here think the new play has something worthy, just unbelievable. No matter how much you all say live and let live, I don't believe you can really mean it in this case, this is just wrong. What next Julie Andrews sings Aretha special?

How much is the Poncello one worth nowadays, and no sorry not selling mines either so apologies but it does keep the thread up top and I am genuinely interested in the value, not sure why but you know how it is.......l.

Not sure how legitimate these Russian download sites are, and therefore not sure how much of that dosh will actually get to artist, which would be a shame for music still available. As said not sure, so maybe wrong, but since I still like the tangible thing such as CD wouldn't be for me, cheers.

Some reasonable priced copies on amazon.co and .com, let the rush begin! I have already purchased it blind as have no sound card, hope it's no disappointment or will be back here for another good moan, help keep up my reputation as a grumpy git I suppose!

Superb Rich, you would love it. PM an email if you want some sound files as sure I recored some other tracks from it.

Wouldn't have thought so Rob given he was pretty full on with Temps at that time, don't think it sounds too like him to be honest. This side does sound good now, long time since I listened to this side. But flip it over for It Just Ain't Right, which is by far the strongest side for me. Sure this was an old tip from Gilly from Burton (on of the many top quality records he has tipped) although he can't remember it now. I have had this for many years and you really don't see it very often. (Now wait for millions of people correcting me, should say I don't look that hard so my not having seen it may not mean much!). Whatever a top double sider.

Cheers Steve, I am without sound on PC at moment but will grab a listen when fixed.

Aww mines' is second issue, what a bummer, if that sort of thing matters, which of course I will now pretend it doesn't!! Fantastic record whatever, an old someone from London tip, that can't remember, would sound great played out I would imagine.

I would say the plethora of new nights kicking up around all over would suggest the guys running these obviously think it is better to run lots of small nights rather than support the already going on events. Saturday was a good example with Burnley on there was at least one relatively local do, allegedly playing something different, on same night as Burnley, sounds a bit crazy to me. At what point did I mention large or National venues, I said it would be good if people into progressive side of Northern all went to the same venue, history tells us that does not normally require a huge venue. I don't think even Kev Roberts would try and sell Kings Hall as a progressive venue so I see no relevance to my point. He does what he does, and arguably does it well, it has no relevance to the sort of people I consider progressive however. The sort of DJ's I mentioned, Butch, Andy D, Mick H, and also people like Arthur Fenn, Steve G (who interestingly was the one who said he preferred current situation) & Cliff Steele, guys like that with collections big enough to rotate, or who chase things that are new, different and top quality, often rare - although never at the cost of quality with these guys. Following behind that you have guys like Karl Heard, the DDA guys (and girl!), out there doing it now, not living on their reputation, always looking for something new and worth hearing out. If you genuinely think there are guys out there at their local do's can do better than these guys, I would love to hear about it. My whole point was a regular do featuring all these guys in one do is how it should be for MY ideal scenario, if you read on I was also saying I realised it was unlikely if not impossible these days. I fail to see how you can argue this point, if you really are into something different. I love to share my music, I always have done. However I do it via CD (formerly tapes) and talking about great records, nowadays even the odd MP3 of my records, I certainly don't really think about starting my own night and DJ'ing at it just because I have some nice records (even though I do say so myself). I read these playlists of nights "with something different", and often they are great records but ones that are owned by the majority of collectors with reasonable sized collections, and often have been played out reasonably regularly in years 1985-2000, that isn't being that different to me. I have no real vested interest here , I am just an old armchair critic, and to be honest as time goes on I see that the local dos do serve a purpose these days as people travel less, and yes its nice to hear some nice records and only have a £2 cab ride home. However they are not and should not be the centre of a progressive scene, arguably they are killing it. I can see why people prefer them but to say the majority are anything other than a comfy British Legion type place for ageing Northern fans is just wrong, IMVHO.