jocko

I spoke to Arthur about this recently funny enough, but as usual I was inebriated and forget the details. I seem to remember going to one all dayer (around 80 I would have though) where it was mixture of upfront sounds (60's/70's) and one soul night where it was pretty much all new release stuff which I though was post Wigan and therefore post 81, however think Arthur queried my dates, and he should know, being the clear brained and intelligent bloke he is...... over to you Arthur, Steve G did Blackbeat not feature something about this? I really think you need to get this reprinted young man, in glossy cover, it would blow people away by just how good (and funny) it was, think I might start an online petition for the reprints of Blackbeat!!

No I think it was more me not reading it correctly when I review it, so sorry about confusing it. I totally agree with you re the negative part and the off list part and I have said as much to James, I still think that it raised interesting points about Manifesto and soul journalism generally that could and should be taken as constructive criticism but I suppose on hindsight you and Matt are right, based on past evidence, that it would just drop down into slanging.

And last thing, Steve Plumb has an excellent article which probably is the classical definition, although as John says it has shifted for many from this, but I think sums it up First crossover record played Buddy Ace - Pleasing You (Stafford) And 2 of the best examples showing it has plenty balls when it needs to Chuck Overton - Is It Possible Thomas East - Follow The Rainbow (possibly my favorite record within the genre) but just to confound things I have a 2009 recorded CD only track that I am going to post on thread tonight I think fits perfectly. Ok off now to do some work!

You have obviously never been to Soul Essence or the Orwell, (more than 10 miles past Watford which I suspect rules certain people out) where lots of people dance to said music, which many of us dont find dreary in the slightest, particularly as it is generally played alongside music of all tempos and all genres which in many ways is the true spirit of crossover. Me, dreary ballad music this weekend, Lifeline following weekend both equally satisfying and both part of this rich tapestry I love which was the way for most until the tempo terrorists arrived, taking us back to 1974...........

I think that sums it up pretty well John, and probably sums up my thinking now, I probably think more about the kind of venues that play stuff like that now, Orwell, Monumental and I agree its mostly slower 60's or 70's, but I would say it very rarely moves away from soul music which is why I like it, And for the righteous ones who say they just like soul, do you mean all soul or just 60's???? John this reminds me I have a couple of crossover CD's that I never sent to you from swap, have various excuses but none stand up in court of law, will send these off to you tomorrow.

Confused here Paul, James started this thread and I think his point was all about editorial control, albeit dressed up dramatically as you would expect from a young Londoner. However surely the point he is making is valid, but as usual we go over the same IL points, I assume you are referring to the control on here however, if so do you not think it is fairer to the site to be less obtuse?. The problem is exactly as I guessed people are being blinded by the fact it is James and not actually debating the issue, if there is one, as usual there is more about IL and JT than about Manifesto! Its why debate on here is almost becoming pointless. And regards James hatred, I am on record here and have said to James I don't think he should involve the site in this, but why does no-one mention Ian Levine's behaviour threats and comments re Cyanide etc, it seems again people are blinded by personalities rather than facing the facts.

I agree about forums sometimes coming over negative, but the other side of that is they allow debate that otherwise may not be heard. Debate isnt and shouldnt only be about positivity, when used to highlight negative things and debated properly, they are great mediums, and it is generally the quality of the debate that is the problem with forums as far as I can see. I appreciate direct criticism is hard to take but when in the public eye I am afaid this is the risk you take, I did think about not using your name directly but I felt otherwise it just looked like me moaning. The scene isnt all positive in my eyes at all, 95% is piss poor and below the standard I want from my Northern scene and having spent a large chunk of the last 30 years being around it I think I am allowed an opinion. I think the magazine could be a far more positive input to the scene than it is to be honest, hence my comments. I think the Northern stuff in is a trifle embarrassing to be honest, it generally covers a part of the scene I am not really interested in. It very rarely covers anything to do with the progressive side, apart from Sam, and him and Tims squabbling has now just got boring, I dont agree with all of Paul Ss views but I think most can see where he is coming from with the jobs for the boys quotes. But to be honest I am not that concerned with that side, the one thing I like about the magazine, and probably the reason you are not going to get much positivity from Northern only people on here, is the coverage it gives to new artists. I think this is its strength as this is where it can bring new soul to a wider audience and make a difference to the artists, by looking at new released stuff new also the new CDs, the coverage of which is woefully short. If you read my initial response I actually say its a positive resource. I have sent Mike 2 emails about the magazine, one about one of your interviews where I felt you sold the artist short and one about the lack of coverage of new release CDs. Neither were answered, I also sent numerous emails about back issues and subs which were all ignored, my subs were only sorted out when Ian D gave details of an outside company. And I think that is a key point here, I am presenting my points as a subscriber which surely allows me to do so, and am doing so to stop me and many others I suspect, not subscribing in future. This is just bollocks; I would say I was a pretty regular attendee on the Northern scene from 1978 to 1995, where was he then, although I suppose you could say that about lots of people. If you truly think his CD is the future of the scene then yes you should give up, you just confirm my view we come from scenes as far apart as I am from the Rock and Roll scene you quote. Also I didnt take issue with Levines input, I took issue with the magazine providing masses of free advertising, with what looked like no editorial control, to his latest product , which I think was Jamess original point. As usual people keep ignoring the point and argue their own points. Its this weakening of the magazine standards that I think is putting its existence in trouble, and I am probably one of the more likely on here to actually buy the CD but wont because of Levines recent behaviour, which everyone seems to be ignoring again, as evidenced by Jaynes response. I actually didnt say anything about the spelling etc of the interviews, I made a general comment about the quality within the magazine, I do not hold you responsible for that at all, this was a comment on the standards within the magazine generally, I was suggesting they get a proof reader, so I think you are taking that too personally. I dont expect perfection, in many ways its the flawed bits that are interesting, however spelling and grammar in a magazine is essential to me and should be the responsibility of the editor, surely in todays technologically driven world its not that difficult to get right. I was however commenting on the quality of the interviews, as I do think these have gradually got poorer, and in all honesty it often comes over as if you have not done enough research and therefore the conversations can come over as quite lightweight. I appreciate your comments on time above, I wasnt sure if you did this professionally and if not I appreciate I am being harsh, but the other side of this is this is music and artists I love, you are getting an opportunity most would give their right arm for, I think they deserve more respect. As for me doing it, I would love to, it has been one of my dreams for many years as many people will attest to, but here is the rub, I know I probably dont have time, and probably not the skills either, so therefore I dont as I do not feel I could do the job it deserves. Maybe something you need to consider if you really no longer have the appetite. I really do take my hat off to you doing this as amateur and fitting in the job as well, I would be sorrier to see you stop than I would to continue but surely you can see that objective criticism I am giving is good for you and can only help you improve, assuming you want to. And I suppose this brings us back to the lads club criticism of the mag, forums are great places for picking up knowledge when required, a simple request on here, or probably EMS, would probably give you all the research you need for most artists within minutes, maybe if you did use that and were more visible people wouldnt feel the mag is such a closed shop Just to prove I am not just picking on you, I would also say I am slightly disappointed in Sean Liveseys new column. I would hope Mr Livesey, given his training, would expect some feedback, but although I think his column shows promise at moment it has too little direction and is in danger of just replicating Sean Chapmans column for the modern scene. I am sure Sean L could go much more in depth (as could Sean C but in all honesty I very rarely read his column now) but as he is new I appreciate he is probably finding his feet. Surely pointing this out now is not insulting him, I would hope as a journalist he would see it as something to consider. If all journalists threw their dummy out of the pram every time somebody disagreed with them we would be crunching our way around Fleet Street! And to prove some positive things, I like Fishs column, fairly unique in its coverage and I buy something every month because of that, I like Sams record reviews, often flawed, but hugely enthusiastic and always has me looking for sound clips. And Ian Ds recent articles have been refreshing in that they have been on something different, maybe Ian could serialise his book in the mag! My comments really are made with the interest of the magazine, I love printed words over the internet any day and would love nothing more than to see this magazine prosper as it is unique in the market place, I suspect SS is not its target audience and maybe that is another thing that needs to be done, is some marketing, I think you would be surprised that there are as many people who want to help as there are to see it flounder. Ian I totally respect this, but I suppose the point I am making is if it becomes too amateurish it wont survive, harsh but true. I appreciate there have been difficult times for mag in recent years but I spoke before with you about the complete lack of response to any emails, which I know you have sorted on many occasions, but things like this just I think take away all the good points, In all honesty I assumed Mike made a living out of it which is why I have been a little harsh, if he is doing it as amateur then yes, hats off, I think a monthly magazine has been beyond people with far greater resources than this so that in itself is a great achievement. Maybe it is time to widen the net for contributors, as I say the coverage of CDs released, new and old material, is really quite poor, other than Fishs column, but some of the bigger stuff could do with full reviews for me as I assume Mike gets the products. I am sure there would be a lot of people who buy the stuff happy to write about it, it really is a fantastic tool to promote artists product, both old and new which at the end of the day, while really being of little interest to many on here, is one of the few ways we can actually give back to the people who have given us so much. And more to the point I am still willing to buy some back issues if you can sort it out for me...... You answer your own questions on here Martin, you cant address the problems if there is no medium to communicate, hence using this forum. And as for SR not selling on here, not sure I have ever seen it advertised, I have never seen any issues of it to be honest, and as long as you do not have any quotes in it saying that the 80s were all oldies, as Sam attributed to you in most recent Manifesto, I would take a copy of each back issue you have. PM me.

I think James is making a very good point re Manifesto's recent editorial policy that is probably going to be lost because people will only see it as part of their personal feud, I did read it and share his thoughts, I also think the editorial policy and standard of Steve Handbury's (who does look on here so its not a snide comment) interviews are sometimes quite woeful, not to mention the quality of proofreading needing upped dramatically, Now people can talk about James and Ian or people can take his point and discuss Manifestos current position, because speaking to people recently the mag is alienating a lot of readers and I would suspect in danger of losing their current status. I know Ian D has done a lot to help with this, and should say since Ian put a link to outside company doing subs mines has worked perfectly, but at the end of the day if they don't get the content right no amount of good admin is going to help them. And yes I know we could write to Manifesto, I still have 3 unanswered emails re back issues so don't have a lot of faith in that route, so Mike if you are out there, it would be a shame to see a potentially good resource go the way of others.

Do you want to show me where I am criticising any member, did I say anything was wrong with your approach? I was making jocular reference to your style of having lots of threads on the go, including one I seem to remember asking for perfect Motown record or something, I made a similar jocular reference to you before and you laughed, nowt as strange as folk on here right enough. Back on topic also can someone tell me when a Motown record is a Northern record and when it is not, which might help explain why lots of dos now advertise Northern AND Motown.....

I have nothing as important as Ion. although I do have a scar on my shin from playing football after an all-nighter with Ion and a motley crue. I do also have a Ben E King - Can't Break The News on Greek atlantic which is pretty neat, any idea of a value folks? As well as some common Atlantic stuff, Aretha, Arthur Conley etc.

I should have said in among having a laugh at my childish wit I was being serious about agreeing. Some of the greatest music ever came out of that stable, possibly tarnished by being heard too much, but that doesn't make it bad music. I have always said, which crosses with another thread I think (no doubt one of Webbys scattergun approach to threading!), but the Isley Brothers This Old Heart Of Mine, is the Magnetics of Motown to me, its supremely majestic, the guys sing the whole song without taking a breath and never lose the beat, totally fantastic sound. Just don't play it out every do and off course I feel the need to say FW wouldn't even be in the top 500 Motown sounds, thats how good Motown is.........

I totally buy your theory, which is just as well given the forum you have put it in...........

Butch, Kitch, Marco Santucci and a few others all play rare Northern Soul, they also play fresh Northern soul, lots rare and some not so rare but mostly quality, some would say they are as good as it can get when on form, they never seem to get mentioned on here, certainly not in as revered tones as radio two and TV "stars" seem to in connection with the music, its a funny old world isn't it........ Re Steve Davis I think he may be on here, he is definitely on EMS, I think you may be surprised at the records he has that would be called Northern, some pretty big ticket numbers some of which he may be currently selling, I think his role in Voices was as co-director, possibly even co-owner of mag and record list, not sure about now. Great taste as most gingers do have....

Although FTROML is a fantastic record its totally blown away by MWL, absolutely totally one of the all time top Northern plays for me, Great memories of a great time full of great music.

Sean does that mean you have a spare Phil La Of this also, may be interested in adding to your pension fund as Pickfords managed to drop mines from a great height when my 45's were in storeage and its in about 5 pieces, so probably time to replace. Let me know, as always agree with your comments on She's Gone

I am incredibly proud (yes proud, you tempo terrorists out there)to say I have played about 3/4 of these records on list so far in spots over year, mostly last hour at Allanton, when we had as many people as interested in the music as the beat! Think there is a media thread out there somewhere specialising in these somewhere, worth reviving some time. Only problem for me is where people mistake any big voice with a good soul singer and the genre becomes a bit blurry for me, but appreciate particularly with the Big City stuff the line is definitely blurred. Tony Colton is one to add that I like to think I had some part in it making, after Dean Anderson obviously, but that is one that not sure has stood the test of time.

It is a y2k release, not sure of exact date, but was a 90's unissued LP as far as I know, a couple of other nice things on it too if I remember rightly, pretty sure She's Gone is on refosoul too. Gareth/Dylan have PM'd you both.

Its the original vinyl but a re-issue of a CD track per below, what a dilemma you are going to have. Oh its also a pretty fantastic tune which is very played out in the Modern World, allegedly!! https://www.amazon.co.uk/Right-Here-Along-Ali-Ollie-Woodson/dp/B00005QC4C/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1248899005&sr=1-1

I also have a plain white label but it has Don't Stop Me Now on other side and pretty sure it has Underworld scratched on the runout, found it in a local shop years ago that used to get all the new releases as demo, always thought it was genuine, anyone else seen one, must be worth the most surely!!!

Jeez who actually has got an Eddie Parker IYMG on Miko then, it must be so rare, Andy Dyson I think, anyone got a soundfile to load when things are back to normal, I have only heard the original a couple of times, and love the re-recording but the Miko one is almost perfection. To keep this on topic, before I get a row, anyone got a Hotel Sheets LP to sell, pretty please!

Pretty sure it was a main room spin for him 80/81 Rod, as I never really used to go into M's much. One of the many great things he was spinning at the time to be honest. And very interesting to hear it out almost everwhere I have been lately, another one that no doubt every man and his sheep will be chasing now......

Read the thread again, no-one was talking about playing Flashback off carver, although that would be preferable to playing a non soul record, it was the other tracks of the CD that have had no or little exposure, and more importantly are soul tracks, I always prefer playing soul tracks, and I dont actually have any carvers anywhere so maybe you want to do a little more research And WTF is comment about 30 of my mates, want to explain that as I have no idea what you are on about, where did I say anything about that? You have completely lost me here mate, want to explain it? And re the taping Butch's set, do a little more homework before you throw insults sonny, you really have very little idea. I was going to say I dont dj so I can only do my home play list, but tomorrow is the exception, I'll send you it, probably mostly under £50 I will warn you. I repeat the premise of my statement, you stated its better to play a non soul record because its rare and hard to find did you not? I am a soul fan and despite the attempt of some on here to ridicule that these days, I like to keep my soul scene to soul records, old fashioned I know but thats the kind of man I am!

When she stopped singing! Sure this should be borderline Freebasing, you just trying to get on the top posters list by creeping in here?

So its a lot better to play a non soul record because its rare and hard to find than an unreleased f***ing fantastic soul record thats had little or no exposure because its on a CD. That sums up why 95% of todays Northern scene is lost up its own ass. Glad to see its not just us Brits who have lost our way on this wacko scene! Another unbelievable statement, pass the Gin bucket darling.

Don't have time to answer this properly yet, but can say meanwhile what Bob says, times 2. And yes the clip you put up proves my point perfecttly, thanks for that. As a little aside to your point it would appear there was a doctor and a few useless friends with Michael Jackson when he died, does that mean they are all great dancers................ PS If the Dolly Parton fan club come googling by surely thats the clincher for Freebasing, cmon Mods you know you want to!! PPS Bicks, do you want to debate Lee Fields, Stan Mosely and Norman Connors new CD's over in Freebasing, could do with a chat.