jocko

I have nothing more to say, but I am going to pretend I have and I am holding it back till other people say what else they have to say, just so I can post and get back to the top of the poster list, knocking Cliff below me, where he obviously belongs, its scary how quickly power and status becomes addicitive.

And to hijack thread, if anyone has the LP for a price cheaper than the very rare 45 (obviously, sorry Pete) I would be very interested PM's please.

I didnt know it was on 45, I thought it was LP only which may explain, or may just highlight my crap knowledge. I only hgad a vreyu brief look as I have actually had to work this morning but I think you have well underpriced the Bill Brandon, if its the tuitle I am thinking of, some would know more, and the Devons was very lowly priced but to be honest probably reflective of its real value. I was going to PM you with these but thought it might be a bit late.

Because that is how I would genuinely debate it in real life, just forget people do not know me on here as well, and you do shout virtually sometimes so one has to shout louder to be heard. Ironically its a small part of my life now, doesnt stop me caring, and anyone who knows me will say its just an excuse to verbal in an environment where no-one can tell me to shut up! Right really off now, if this doesn't get me on top posters for today, nothing will.

Cheers for your honest answer mate, most people think I am having a dig but I do think there is a real difference in atttitude if you were around in the 80's and I was genuinely interested if you had some Damascus like change after that. I think I accuse people of being blinkered musically because most are to be honest,it something very alien to me,, and I am trying to ignore now it now, you have obviously tried and not liked it, which is sort of fair enough. For me its not about 60's v 70's or newer stuff, its about the same records over and over, it doesn't compute with me and its nothing to do with the scene I inhabited from 79-95, hence my question above. However I also realise thats what lots want, and I genuinely do not have a problem with that now, I do get frustrated however when people do not see that is different to how it was for the majority of the scenes time, which is really what this is all about. I think its fu**ed up the sort of scene I was on, and generally its people who went to Wigan for a few years in 74ish now wanting everything to be the same as it was, for most of us that spent a large chunk of our lifes on an evolving scene that makes the current situation frustrating. But feet will tell and the progressive scene, for want of a better term, has enough of its own problems, mostly because of too many soul nights in my opinion, but thats a view from afar and there are least 3 or 4 all nighters now playing very upfront music so its not all bad, maybe just being stuck up here in the Northern wastes talking about it rather than doing it has addled my brain.

Did you ever go to Stafford mate, or Shotts, or Bradfords Queens Hall,etc. etc. etc. etc. none of them could be described as no-fun but most people there were deadly serious about their music. Sadly its an often wrong assumption that people serious about there music have to be serious on their night outs, I can name you many that prove that theory wrong, but Pete Lawson will do for starters. I really would be interested in where you did actually go, as you just don't seem to get a whole world that existed 79-95, but then again I don't expect you to actually answer anything. It would be of more interest if you did debate my points rather than now turn it personal, was that not what you scolded me for in your best school teacher manner, at least be consistent, for a change. Good night now.

Bizarrely I think we are making a very similar point but with a very different conclusion and differing logic, good luck to you mate, but whether you like it or not your scene has nothing at all to do with the Northern scene I was on, not a complaint or moan, just a fact. Your last line does show how little you know about things outside your own little world though, try Lifeline if you want busy, you never know you might like it. What venues did you go to between 81 and 95 that met the criteria you now have, its a genuine question, as I wasn't aware there were so many going on.

Do you have a clip you could put into refosoul here Dylan, its years since I have heard the 7" one. I have the LP rerecording which is actually pretty good but is blown away by the 7". What an amazing double sider, dont think I have ever seen a copy, was talking about this with Andy D recently and wondering if they all still reside in Japan.

Definitely my last word on this, the only genuine apology I probably owe is ImberMan, I didn't believe he did start this until after he said so, maybe I should read the odd post by him after all..........

Aah we have returned at identical times, it must be fate, No you weren't you were putting anyone down that didn't fit with your 76/77 definition and dared to widen that Northern genre, ignoring the fact it did evolve over the next 20 years that lots of us enjoyed and is possibly evolving again currently. Because you don't like it doesnt mean it didnt happen or its wrong. It won't be that hard to dig through this and quote what you said, at least stand by what you say. I didn't complain about being called anything, stick to the facts please, I just pointed out to James he was acting childish as I was winning the argument (yes I am competitive too), James is used to me winning however, he just didnt handle it well today, and as he knows I have been too nice to him lately so our love affair was due a dip. Glad to see your dislike of me now has brought you and James together, its nice to be nice. I really have had enough of this, either debate the facts and the points I made or lets leave it, I wont expect an invite for dinner soon, but mayone one day.....

Ahh see you have now gone the more conventional Soul Source way of ignoring the points made and throw in a threat instead, I should be in Brixton at do next week, listening to some of that civilisation threatening genre widening music you so abhor, feel free to come and sort me out, although you may have to join an ever growing queue. Alternatively I will carry on the heated debate with you on the roof terrace as it used to be normal to do about music and the scene, but obviously no more. Firstly then, in the sake of debate, I will apologise for taking the piss out of you, which is what it was not the mass defamation you insinuate above. In my defence, slightly, I assumed you would be used to, as I am, having the piss taken out you, as I am, for being rather opinionated, as I am. I obviously shouldn't carry on debate in same manner as I would round a pub table, as I obviously don't understand peoples deep sensitivity to being butt of humour, Further in my defence if you really don't see how you talk over people with your capitals all over the place, and that you almost always dismiss others peoples experiences in favour of your own, without qualifying it no matter what you think,which was my kind of serious point among that, then we read differently. Nevertheless it was mean to be humorous as opposed to deeply hurting as you seemed to find it and I suppose this thread has taught me, again, my smiley free humour obviously doesn't translate, or maybe it hits the bone....... And as this was my first post on this, not sure how you can say it was a response to people not agreeing with me. None of which changes the fact I made some salient points, in fact you could say cut to the crux of the matter, none of which you are now willing to debate or answer, hmmmmm. Dogmatic definitely, and perpetually proud of that, shouldn't everyone be when they believe a point is worth arguing, and they believe passionately in that point, and more so when I get fed up with opinions being thrown around as facts and facts been ignored, if you had been on here a bit longer you would know that is my pet hate, although normally I don't bother having a verbal ruck now as we always seem to end up here! Confrontational, probably, but not in the way you mean, I think its right to always confront mistruths and misrepresentations of peoples opinions that impact on my beliefs, again proud of that, but not personally confrontational, don't believe in it and I am a big sap anyway so never gets me anywhere, there is some inside information for you. And as for what is wrong with the scene, no, one thing you can't blame me for, what is wrong is people have stopped caring (me included to a certain extent) and given up on what is important, making daft excuses along the way, and therefore f**cking up the scene I felt part of. People like Cliff and others haven't, whether you like it or not, and they care passionately about a good scene, hence why I sometimes feel obliged to come out of my posting retirement and throw my sixpence worth in, most of which has been ignored so far. So in summary Patto probably says it best, I still stick with if you don't care leave it to people who do, rather than run them down with irrelevant arguments. On that note I am off to join Cliff in the media files, much nicer and less dangerous over there.

A quicky Kev, I really do have to earn the Queens shilling, oops just did, I meant have to do some work to justify earning it. I didn't say anything about tempos or oldies did I? I said new and exciting, other than the occasional Butch/Mr Dyson isn't everything an oldie of a sort. I certainly do not expect 8 hours of new music all night, not sure I could cope, all I am saying about quality is it nees to be fresh and exciting, that surely fits all tempos and genres, it does for me. As someone who spent most of the early days in record bars, I certainly don't need dancefloor gratification, but in all honesty it helps these days as I don't go out as often. Not really sure what bit of my point you are getting at there. I wasn't meaning about shouting about nights, that's more important than ever, I was more meaning driven by guys who don't travel anywhere else, put a night on so they can dj and eventually dj at 4 other monthly nights, I still think this has an impact on the progressive scene as it means the potential crowds have it on their doorstep, even though it is often a dilution of the real thing, IMO. I am not getting at soul nights in general here, if I lived closer sure I could find one a week that would satisfy me, just from afar I do think it impacts on nighters particularly as I say the ones that do not actually contribute to any wider scene. That was a bit tongue in cheek but does seriously ask the question is "it" all over........or maybe in reality asks the question what is "it" these days, which is why I thought it was relevant to this debate. I suspect "it" has changed for most of us, I still argue that does not mean the quality of music should suffer, which it often does. I don't think I said offended, and if you read lots of my posts you will see there is often tongue in cheek references, which given your sense of humour (which I seem to be alone in not getting I should say) I thought you would have realise. I am really gone now.

James you are regressing further into your childhood by the minute. I really do need to go and do some work but so I am not misrepresented by other points, I didn't say anything about it being bad or good specifically about playing Salvadors, I used it as an analogy of traditional vs progressive, and if you read it properly I probably complimented your use of it at Lifeline, a case of woods and trees here. My main point is your change in direction, away from these trendy dos to a more traditional based Northern scene, no matter what you say there is no other way your first response can be read and thats what Chorley is advocating. So either you are saying it to annoy CLiff or you have changed. Simple really. If calling me silly names is your only way of answering this, which is actually at the crux of the debate of why the scene has gone tits up when you think about it, then so be it.

[/quote name='James Trouble' date='01 October 2009 - 02:16 PM' timestamp='1254399382' post='1162500'] No point scoring, just a constructive discussion. Chorley has made some points that I and I suspect others would naturally disagree with, but he does back them up and make them quite well. I would naturally side with Cliff's argument but he's not really making it very well, is he? About pushing boundaries and moving things forward. He seems to be saying he thinks he knows better than the northern scene, as it is today, and he plays records that he likes and gets satisfaction from having lots of people dancing to them, and that's the reason he's doing it. Am I wrong?[/b]

I hope you dont mind I answer here rather than PM, don't want to be accused of being a coward, and don't want James to think I am ignoring his diversionary answers. I said it because you ramble, self explanatory I thought and generally I do not read your responses as I didn't on here, Your penchant to throw in crap jokes, ala Patrick Hernandez and much worse, and often just babble ala your grading response up there often just belittles any debate going on, so I ignore your posts normally. Sorry if that seems harsh but you did ask, and in all honesty maybe if more of the people who do mention this said it you, you wouldn't be surprised. Sorry, feel free to send me threats by PM, it seems to be the normal response for people hearing home truths they dont like,. and in case you do want to reflect, why dont you click on your last posts and read through them. I really do have to go and earn my dosh now!

Christ all mighty, I have never seen so many people trying so hard to score points and debating nothing to do with the actual points, particularly, as usual Mr Chorley Soul. The main point to me, ignoring Imbers ramblings as I always do, Cliff has made is the "scene" is far too one dimensional now, uptempo 60's only and it was never like this back in the day, and in effect this is killing both the attraction of the scene and the quality of music played. Yes he may have got dragged into a few rambling asides, (normally based on Chorley*** telling us how wonderful he is and how many different things he has done, what religion we should follow and his opinions should be treated as fact, despite not actually backing it up with experiences), but that is still the main point for me. And whatever anyone else wants to say, that is a fact, I was a regular on this scene from 78-95ish, and other than 60's fascism (off which I was a card paying member on and off, but that is a different thread) having a few splurges of power during this period that was how it is, how do I know, I was there. Therefore its fact. I do not think Cliff is advocating playing Bootsy Collins, John Coltrane or Idris Muhammad (pun intended), and he is certainly not advocating Warehouse style music lists (Queen anyone!) but records that fit into this wide banner of Northern Soul, and it is a wide banner based on records actually accepted, again surely there can be no argument to that. It only became so one dimensional mid 90's when the hordes started charging backwards towards the decks, memories of their long gone youth suddenly fresh, and the scene splintered, if not shattered, this is why I still think the Nostalgia scne has had a detrimental effect on my scene, however I wasn't really there then as it was of least interest to me due to the quality going by then and was at home with my music (well also in Houseland but that is also another story) I am always amazed at when people like Cliff argue for some quality of music they are shouted down as "Soul Police" or similar insults, why, are people offended that people actually care about the music rather than just the scene, is the easy way forward really the only way?? Second point that Chorley is making, in there somewhere, is he really doesn't care anymore, he just wants to go out and get pis**ed and relive the early Hampstead days, good on you mate but its nothing to do with the scene Cliff is talking about so why don't you stick to what you know, because you don't care about the progression within the scene why shouldn't others. Northern has never been just about a good night out, the fact we could have damned good night out with great music and great people was because people cared enough to put progressive stuff on and stick their neck out. The fact you don't care anymore makes your views irrelevant. Now James, you are just trying to point score against Cliff, still smarting from the time you took a virtual beating off him, please, you should be bigger than that, you are just living down to an awful lot of peoples expectations off you, I thought better of you, I really did. A few specific points, (a) Cliff didn't say he didn't enjoy others enjoying it, you are putting words in his mouth and trying to score points, I assume you have your short trousers on. Exactly what scene are you talking about when you describe this unit, not Stoke by any chance is it....... ( The scene you ridicule in your response , the young people not knowing anything about anything and moving on, is exactly the one you championed so many times before, the one you said was the future of NS, one that most resembles your Friday night in Chelmsford I believe, and the very one we had our first spat over as I told you were talking bolloks, the one championed by you and your mate from Portishead or whoever that I said wouldn't be here in 5 years (50% right so far, had higher hopes for you, but if your principles go as easy as they seem to be well.....). So why the change now, when some of us are maybe thinking you had something in your original views, are you a Salvadors all night man now, rather than just to get the party started. Do you now champion the traditional route you have fought so hard against up to now. Why would that be James, lets take a guess, Stoke again maybe...... Why don't you go back to doing what you do best rather than just trying to even scores on here lad? Final questions, as you tax payers could be paying me to type this, Barney and Casper (now gone interestingly) where did you actually go between 1981 and 1995, I am interested in which venues suited your narrow tastes in these days? Actually Chorley, I would be interested also in where you went then. It would make far easier to understand your points if I understood at what point you changed. And my final word and summary, there is no scene, it's a lot of ego driven local scenes and in many ways the only one that comes together is the progressive one, although that seems to be even less these days, too many dj's not enough music driven fans that enjoy the scene rather than vice versa, where is the new Keb and Guy to lead the next Soul Revolution (a name James I am assuming you will be changing given your responses above), in many ways the Nostalgia scene is just an irrelevant diversion, although a divisive one I still think, personally I don't care what decade that music comes from as long as its fresh and exciting, or maybe it is all over.........or maybe not, Butch's funky spots, anyone want to discuss? *** Apologies to all other members with Chorley in their name, used the abbreviated term to save my typing fingers, but maybe to avoid any confusion you should let ChorleySoul be the only one to have this name, sve you embarrasment when people think you are him

Okay thats the non soul part confirmed, off to Freebasing with Mods, cmon you know you want to...

I have confessed to having an irrational dislike of most things scouse Ken, and feel guilty daily about it, but not everything, I like you, I just haven't met many (any) nice resident scousers, but you are all good Ken so its not everyone. But nothing to do with that, I really genuinely dont think he can sing for toffee.

I would be interested in hearing how they influenced soul music, not saying they didn't but its certainly not something I have considered before , and as I said before, not them introducing soul stars, with their music is how I am taking the above. If they didnt change my musical world, then surely they didn't influence everything, I am also struggling to see their influence on certain other things, Pavrotti and a few others may certainly disagree I would have thought, but now I am being pedantic and dogmatic. I think your obviously a big fan and your devotion to them is clouding your judgement as much as my irrational dislike of them does mine...... They can't sing for toffee, especially the miserable MF McCartney whose nasal scouse tone makes him one of the worst sort of singers out there, IMO obviously, which is normally right in my world, but as someone who generally judges how much I like music based on the singers voice first, they are hardly going to be top of my pops. Which is really my point about them and soul fans, but taking it beyond that I certainly don't hear any potential Funk Brothers, John Coltranes or MG's in their playing, although will admit to have no musical talent so maybe its just my ignorance...... The mass hysteria that goes with them, normally by people bought into the image and hype, really doesn't help my thoughts. Actually there aren't that many about soul greats and most of them just fall of the page. Until you move thios into Freebasing you have my constant comment, it shouldn't be on a soul site, move it to Freebasing and I can happily ignore it and my palpitations will cease. I won't be smart and say that the Beatles would be No 1 in my list of all time top Y-Fronts, or will I ...... Mr Rounce I really hope that blue touch paper is close to singing your fingers right now!

I hate the B***tles irrationaly some would say, so given Tony's goading comment I thought I would join in. And even the word B******s makes me shiver. Ahh now I definitely didn't say they shouldn't, I was expecting that. Both Malc and Tony's response suggested they should which is a very different emphasis, bit like saying all Northern fans should like soul!! I am genuinely not sure they changed my musical world at all, I dont know enough about "popular music" to comment about that to be honest, and really dont care about it, thats not to say I dont like any of it, that would be idiotic I appreciate, just it doesnt enter my world for a number of reasons, and yes the argument old Berry and lots of soul music was made to be popular etc etc is relevant, but he and his music are part of a genre called soul, whether people want to get all arsey and PC about that or not, a genre that gets little respect on here sometimes, bizarrely, and therefore I quite like standing my corner on that, irrationally or not. It would be nice to see a thread about some soul music great getting even remotely the attention that threads about "popular music" or what is your top 5 Y-Front type threads do! I would certainly rather discuss, and be educated on, how Louis Armstrong changed the musical world which some would suggest was far more relevant than the Ruttles! But the key word is probably irrational, regarding my dislike of all things Beatle and the asusmption that everyone should like them! I do genuinely think they are Sh*t, that I stand by!

Seems a very well reasoned and well thought analysis that I am happy to stick my name against mate. Sure we arent the only sensible people on here that are Beatle haters. Quite an unusual occurrence Malc, I am putting it down to when you think about it the above is quite a reasonable statement for a soul fan! The Beatles and George Lemmons are one and the same Pete, you just havent realised it yet, A wise man once said that the biggest idiots in the world are those that have the most information but do not understand it or use it inappropriately so its all relative really isnt it. And its really a bit like beauty isnt it.......... The Beatles are sh*t for a number of musical reasons, give me the Stereophonics brand of pop anyday, at least he can sing. But that asides its a soul site, some of us are actually soul fans, although certainly not everyone, so as my question as to to Malc WTF should a soul fan like the Beatles music (appreciating them for exposing some soul artists is not the same as liking their music, so lets not trot out that old one.) Answers grounded in reality rather than your personal taste please. Off to the village now for some straw......... Oh and getting on topic the mash up is awful, get over to some House site and hear how a mash up should be done, if you like that sort of thing, which I generally do not.

/forums/topic/112166-ss-most-used-phrases/page__gopid__1158771& Mr Andrews (Steve E) and Mr Rimmer I have no doubt you do get it so can only assume you fancy starting a Friday afternoon ruck! Your album point Mr Rimmer is laughable and illaudable***, but I am not getting into a direct debate with you as last one copsme a pint at 100 club prices, aka price of a small house in Walsall, even though I am right nowadays. If its not a bootleg then its up for playing, if its played too much on whatever format its not up for playing, its time DJ;s stopeed hiding behind format and debated playing of fresh sounds, much more relevant and much more difficult to do. And yes I am having a sh*t Friday and its another 3 hours to my next intravenous Gin dose. *** I know it doesn't exist but its what this thread deserves, a fantasy word that you all get thi gist off. !

Does the Jean Plum have same song both sides or does it have both sides of the Hi issue?

I think that is from the pre-internet days and Rod Dearloves Detroit mag may have missed it out, or something similar. Until early 90's that was the general rumour. I must admit I waited for a long time before I got a decent Revilot copy, but again probably pre total immersion of internet like today. Fantastic record, used to shake the tea bar hatch door when played loud at Allanton, aka Shotts, when it filled a floor (my only floor filler before anyone else says it!!) PS I have a spare Atco copy if anyone wants to give me £100, surely something that good is worth that, even if is common as muck!!

Cmon mate, stop being a lazy MF, get that MP3 off and put in refosoul, you been around long enough to have seen sites policy on MP3's, its not that difficult is it? NB please read this as a speaking as a concerned user with nothing to do with the site disclaimer.