jocko

Not sure I agree Ady, but I sort of see where you are coming from as to whether it would appeal to a wide enough audience, like Chalkster I would be at the front of the cue. Waiting on this CD landing on my doorstep, looking forward to it immensely along with the new Jimmy Hughes one, top choices gentleman (how did you get Mr Hall to agree to anything?) Kudos to Mr Smith for mentioning this, I am amazed at how few people review Kent magic product on here, despite happily boasting about getting it for free!! A gentlemanly round of applause for Mr Smith and pint on me next time I see you!

Just ordered mines 2 minutes ago, I will be waiting by the door tomorrow morning!

DRAMATICS - IN THE RAIN - VOLT - And my all time favourite of theirs, great memories of Southport, sure I still have some great old pictures of then that I need to find RIP

DRAMATICS - FALL IN LOVE LADY LOVE - VOLT 7" - Bizarrely one I put up almost 2 years to the day, one of my favourites of theirs as it has some great memories attached to it.

Section 3.14 of 1985 Northern Soul act says only non original vinyl should have pitch changed! An officer near you is watching to enforce. That wins the most bizarre and totally unconnected excuse ever on here for excusing your behaviour, That looks particularly anti-scottish to me, us Scotch lads have always championed original speed!

Ohh I love it when you get all masterful, that posh exterior soon dissapears. Classic case here of wonder who I would believe...... Spike Lee will make a film about our wonderful Kent label one day Ady, thats how righteous we think it is

Surprised at N-Group, thought that was Keb in mid 80's sure Gary would be happy not to be credited with that one Used to hero worship Gary a bit in these days, in a young off my head sort of way, he was definitely plowing a lone furrow at times, particularly at Clifton Hall Rotherham. Other ones definitely to add Cassadons - 2 Sided Lover Jackie Beavers - Come Back My Love Twilights - You're The One Sophisticates - I Can't Stand It Ascots - Another Day, He picked up Chessman c/u of Richard did he not and carried on with it, as it still had loads of legs on it. not saying he was first on these, pretty sure he featured them all heavily at Rotherham and therefore probably introduced at Wigan, but would say in early 80's these sort of things defined his sound. Cmon Mr Anderson get a notebook along to old Trafford and ask him, better than watching the rubbish on the park surely! Got notes of this sort of stuff somewhere, but they are in boxes in vareious houses along the way! Top bloke and one of men responsible for changing the sound of the 80's "revival"!

They won't be from same session will they Simon, they will be later Ron Murphy stuff no? Jim O'Hara got a metros track along with the Deon Jackson first I think, can't remember which Metros, but were direct from Ron, isn't there a couple of different takes of WWWYL or am I thinking of another one?

Good shout Baz, have been meaning to put it up on Funk thread but thought the Funk boys might throw me out for getting it wrong!! That Jessie James looks like an issue and if it is thats a cracking bargain, fantastic flip side.

And what a great double sider that is as well, forgot I had that 45, must go and dig it out, assume all the 45's are same cuts as LP cuts? Probably in the 10 greatest 60's soul LP's, quality detroit dance through and through!

I suppose I could be accused of bias here as I count Elaine and Marco as great friends, and as a result I have been honoured to read a tiny bit of the script and have had a number of conversations with Elaine on this, however that actually allows me to say with 100% certainty that the one thing this film will have is integrity and it will certainly be done by someone with a love, burning passion and an intimate knowledge of the scene, which has to be a plus in any of this. Elaine has invested a long time and energy into this project, so can hardly be accused of not being committed or being in it just to cash in. It's certainly not just an investment vehicle like so much of the other things we discuss. I would say you are wrong in your assumptions, this film will be carefully researched, and as far as I understand there have been people helping with this side of things that have been around the scene for a long time, as has Elaine. However, I said it before the other film appeared on the horizon, we have to be careful on what we judge it against, expecting a documentary of exactly how it was, which is really what you have highlighted above, is just not sensible, it's a film and as such needs to follow that structure I would imagine, surely its more about how it represents and connects with our memories that is the key to success, and most importantly, as you say in the bit highlighted above, it tells a good story, it is a piece of drama after all. It will probably be similar to lots of our stories but expecting it to be exactly our story is just unrealistic and the success for me in some way will be how nostalgic it makes me feel. I suppose it depends on what you mean by doing it properly Joan, I believe there were discussions before (I haven't been able to play on here for weeks so missed most other debates, can you tell I am quiet at moment!) and the thrust of them is it wont be exactly like it was! Of course it won't, that's physically impossible unless Iain Levine's dreams come true and he really is Dr Who after all. Its telling the story of those times, not recreating them surely. I always use Paul's play as a yardstick for this, that wasn't just about Wigan for me, it was about a time of my life, possibly the greatest time, about emotions that felt they would never die, about being young and the tribulations that brought, about your Saturday night being the most important night of your life, and thinking you were going to live forever, followed by your first sense of loss, Wigan shutting, Yes Wigan was the central point to lots of this, but it told a great story about people too, the key to its deserved success. A bit melodramatic arguably, although technically that means it did its job, but I will hold my hands and say I blubbed my eyes out through that as it connected in a way that all great art should surely. It was a great piece of drama, absolutely world class to me, however I have no doubt that a large part of that interpretation was because of it being about "my life" (and 2000 other people obviously) and surely that is what we judge things like this against. I have no doubt Elaine has invested the same sort of thought, and dare I say again, integrity as Paul did and therefore yes fingers crossed it gets the success it deserves, it would be really nice to have one of our own telling our story surely!

Hmm I normally stay out of this argument even more as it is been done to death, but in recent times this view is seen as majority and I think that is not the history of the scene I know. I am not totally sure about the point you are making here, but I suspect you are holding this up as positive reasons why the retro Northern scene deserves to exist, I think it actually highlights very nicely why it was such a negative thing. These scenes, as does the current Northern retro scene, always seem to focus on a very limited point in history and pay an everlasting tribute to this time and its fashions, forgetting that these fashions were worn only by the most modern of that time, often any musical content is just an equal part, or in my opinion sometimes less important part, than the fashions and in reality people are far more into the scene than the music in isolation, and it almost always turns out to be just a fad, which in my opinion, although arguably I accept, is a parallel for the Northern retro scene. To many people, ironic as it may seem, the Northern scene was never about looking back, it was always about looking forward to next new sound and during all of the 80s and most of the 90s that was the scene completely 100%, and the attitude, of which there was lots, was directed towards keeping the scene like that, and dare I say it preserving its integrity. Even the fashions were the fashion of the day, particularly the early to late 80s, then followed by whatever people wore to go out. The scene you champion in reality only reflects a very small period of NS history, and parts of that period seems to reflect the worst in musical times for NS. I think what annoys many of us who werent around for lots of that, I only started going in 79, is that many try and portray now that is and was the only NS fashion, which is just historically incorrect and for many of us it washes away the fantastic scene of the 80s and 90s, in reality it is rewriting history, which as a historian seems a strange choice for you. In all honesty it is embarrassing for many of us as that is how people assume our scene was, when in reality nothing could be further from the truth, I do accept the over the top slagging may not be necessary, but sometimes raw emotion is evoked when something precious to people is patronised and bastardised. Since in reality the scene you champion and anything I was involved with are actually now only distant relatives, probably step relatives with only one birth connection, I genuinely do believe in the live and let live principle, however on recent times it has almost become sacrosanct to defend any alternative on here, leading to accusations of being up our own asses and such like, I think sometimes there needs to be a reality check, and in reality the scene you champion is far closer to those in the images you have here, but what you and others seem to forget that these were the kind of scenes many of us were rebelling against by being into Northern, and yes being nearly 50 and relatively comfortable in life, these rebellions may be not as relevant but what is important to me, in case its not obvious on this thread, is integrity, and presenting the Northern scene as purely a retro scene does no justice to the integrity that was so evident on the NS in my nearly 20 years of being a regular participant, and indeed led to my current apathy to anything called Northern. I genuinely do not get involved in the debate as I think it has been argued before and nowadays any progressive Northern scene is being strangled to death by people who consider themselves a part of it, with repeated new nights playing the same old newies that have been played for years, therefore the retro scene in reality is of little consequence to that scene. But to me the reintroduction of the retro scene seriously damaged the healthy progressive Northern scene, however that is long past, but I think your arguments to live and let live go 2 ways, surely you can see why many of us do not recognise your vision of the scene, and indeed why sometimes it grates to be told that you represent the history of the NS, when it is not our history. There is a very thin line between moaning and informed opinion! This isnt really to debate any further, its really to present the other side, which is generally ignored out there these days.

Gareth I have been struggling mentally all weeekend with your confession that you can listen to FG without wanting to murder anyone around you, but thinking your otherwise flawless taste should make me forgive you, but you have really crossed the line by unleashing this montrosity to the nation, a horror of all horrors! I really feel I must apologise to all pub singers for even remotely connecting them to Lemons scary lack of anything remotely recognisable as a human voice! Re the shooting comment not sure if that was a joke or not, but think that may not have been the best approach to get rid of him as some obviously music loving detroit policeman found to his cost!

A fiver was a lot of money back then though Andy, so yes I felt robbed, not helped by the rumour that you still actually have that fiver and many more I gave you back in the day in your piggy bank, gaining 0.02% interest. Jjust as well for you all your tips were red hot and have appreciated about 3000% in value, ever thought of taking up Investment Banking? Last bump, any more for any more, have a couple of PM's still to answer will do so later today.

I was going to leave this alone as you just refuse to debate the points and carry on spouting the same line; however you seem intent on ridiculing anyone who disagrees with you. I already answered the point about choices, why do you keep banging on about giving choices, it shouldnt be that hard to work out I totally agree in everyone been given a free choice, within societal limits. However, because people have the right to choose doesnt mean you have to condone their choices, its back to my original point in there is sometimes a choice with integrity and a choice without and I see little wrong on criticising those without integrity especially when it cheapens and dilutes something I care about. As I say if you do not think these things lack integrity or indeed you do not see the value of integrity, then great say that, that is your choice and cant be argued against as such, at least you would be presenting an argument. It wont stop me valuing and arguing for integrity in things I care about. As someone said, this lets leave all to their own attitude is why the Northern scene is now a parody of its former self, and its generally used by people as an excuse for their own behaviour, although I appreciate this could be seen a bit of a generalisation! Having passion about quality control over something you care about seems so obvious I cant believe you continue to argue against, by just ignoring these things that cheapen our world, people think thats the norm and soon perception is reality! And as for your last line about the A&R guys, not only does it make no sense, it is just so irrelevant to this debate, which is about the UK Northern scene, period, and how that is perceived. I can make a guess as to what you are alluding to, and any argument about artists rights, no matter how interesting, is not relevant to this discussion.

Aaaww I wanted to say that. Seriously I know its turning into a bit ofn obsession with me but does no-one else hear the Reeves & Mortimer pub singer similarity, especially at the end, and surely the story of how it was made backs up the boy can't sing for toffee (apologies if mention of the T word reduces the multitude of Man U fans to tears). I dread to ask in case the answer is positive but did he make any more records before he went on his Scarface style shootout?

I can't believe that I am going to say this out loud, I totally love this record in an irrational sort of Northern soul way, I do think that this was one of those had to be there records. Strutting my stuff to this on the dancefloor next to Big Kenny and Lennie (RIP) one week, to see Lennie with flippers another week, integrity and fun, it does work! It is a monumental piece of dance of music is what I keep telling myself, hiding from the obvious fact this was probably as much about Kebs persona as a DJ Memories, if only we could hold on to them for longer than 10 minutes these days!

DCBTM fantastic sound Franc, one that would grace the floors of all these uptempo venues springing up around the country for me, great price too.

Updated, amazed more at some that are left than those that have gone, will be adding some new ones today I think so may have one last batch at these before I maybe attempt the lottery that is Ebay!

Internationals - Beautiful Philosophy - D'ar

Bernard Smith - Man Without A People - Spectrum 7" Posted info: The side no matter what anyone says!!

Its not often you are wrong Joan (althought thats not what Tony says when you are not around) but this time honey................ Hope you are both well and be great to catch up sometime.

You are right , it is a choice, integrity is a choice, people choose to have no integrity, it doesn't make it right. The fact you choose not to differentiate between things with integrity and those without is your choice and you could argue suggests you lack it also, I do not know you well enough to comment. In the cases you mention it could be seen as people having no integrity, although I am yet to see any evidence of these examples other than people like you comparing apples with pears, and desperately trying to ridicule people with integrity. It seems to be a feature of many people on the scene nowadays, pretending to champion the underdog but actually choosing the dumbing down of a once great thing, which results in large chunks of the scene having no integrity, one of the reasons I have little to do with it. And before you quote me the fun bit, this scene had pure integrity all through the 80's, filled with characters who sure knew how to have fun, so lets leave that argument out. Would be nice to stick to facts for a change in some debates................

Poor soul record, f**cking fantastic Northern Soul record. Yes I do differentiate also, sometimes, it has the balls to make up for the weak vocals, unlike some of the other "pop" stompers previously mentioned!

Its about integrity mate, if you don't get the difference between Paul's play and Winstanleys tat and the other tat referred to on here then you are never going to get it. And no amounts of "self righteous" or "soul police" cover up insults are going to change that. All good art has integrity, ridicule all you like but that will never change, and neither will individuals lack of integrity, I really try and not get involved in this now but this is a pretty good summary of where large chunks of the scene are today. Very sad. Although every cloud has a silver lining, some of the humour on here on this one however has been great, and almost a retutn to the good old days.