jocko

How many LP's has he done, any details of them? Can't find anything on interweb, thought I had one but not at home at moment so can't check

I didn't hijack any thread, I answered a direct question with a full and frank response, and again I won't not give my opinion, just because you don't like it. I take exception to that being suggested. And how people dress was only part of it, and I explained why in the context of the response it was relevant. I didn't use the term dress up at all, for you or anyone, so don't put words in my mouth. The comment on dress was a very small part of my response, interesting you ignore the rest. Again, just because you don't like the response doesn't mean people shouldn't be allowed to express opinions. Its a forum, where people are going to debate. I repeat why don't you tell me where my opinions are flawed rather than just trying to suppress my giving my opinion. If you don't like things being repeated then internet forums are definitely not for you, every forum effectively has cycles of topics. Some more so than others, maybe because they are important to people and I think I have articulated clearly why they might be important in this case. As I say, its a two way thing if people want to give opinions.

Jeez, smart asses are like buses, none for ages then two arrive at same time! Mr P, thanks for that, so now not only is it no longer the only fact I have given on here, it was the shortest lived myth I ever created. Thanks a bunch. Oi Lewis, that Irish do was a 9-2 Wednesday night do, so hardly an allnighter, even at this age! So was that advert wrong and am I remembering another night, as I don't remember a side room, although that might explain why I never knew anyone if there was another room that I wasn't in. I believe Mr Kellet and Mr Molloy were at the one I was at, but seen neither, although since I didn't know you or Gaz then I probably wouldn't have noticed you, although the thought of not being able to notice Gaz at any point seems unlikely... Bloody hell, this memory game is not easy!

Actually I haven't even looked at the video, have no interest in doing so. I was answering a direct question which I think I could fairly assume was aimed at me as I had just recently contributed to an article where I led on the very subject of nostalgia. And I clearly articulated my logic. As I say, I have very little interest in what you do, say or how you act anymore, as no matter how you try and convince yourself its absolutely nothing in common with the scene as I knew it. But you prove my point, with your unintentional (in the sense I mean I assume) ironic, move on/off comment. Who should and why. People who dare to have an opinion based on their experience that you don't like because it doesn't meet your needs. Really? Tolerance is a two way thing. Feel free to show me the error of my ways in my experience and my opinions, I am happy to be corrected in anything I have said if you can, by facts. But I won't "move on" with my opinions just because you don't like them. Whether you like it or not, there are huge swathes of people who don't share your vision of any Northern scene, mostly now moving on, sadly as I suspect the nostalgia scene will have a shelf life as limited as the original attendance for most, but not all obviously. And evidence seems to already bear this out. Maybe from the embers some embryo of a scene will be born. Sadly I don't care about that either, I just don't want my history rewritten, or worse written out.

I wore them once late 1979, I think, not only did I turn up to Clouds to find the 3 "mates" that had told me where to buy them and what type to buy had turned up in their new pegs saying bags were for Divs, I got chased along Rose Street in Edinburgh next morning by the Punks, (Bruces records anyone) I was on my own as off to play football for the school. I then got sent home from school football game as was still wearing them (noone had told me to take normal trousers too) and teacher obviously knew all about the all nighters as got a 4 week ban from footie and a lecture about the bad boys and their bad habits at all nighters. I listened to his advice, left school 2 weeks later, got a job and a new pair of trousers and kept going to all nighters. I then wore them once more, late 80's to Allanton as fancy dress, they were still my old waist 26's I wore, my waist was now 32. I looked like I was garroted by end of night. I hired my fancy dress after that.

Off course you would, anyone who has been off the scene for 25 years would. Jeez, thats going to include me in 12 years, where is that cliff.........

I thought it was just Brainstorm? Someone once said, I think, this also covered as Leon Ware, I can't remember this but then I didn't realise so many of these were played in 79, given the stick they were getting when I started in 80 I thought they were all pretty new. Stop being a bloody drama queen Pete, get it up, lots of good music even for you on there, and the rest you can put on silent. JD Moore is Marvel Love, one of the last records I tried shuffling to, before knocking a table of drinks over....

I like to think I answered that in my write up about Shotts, as it is an important point for me to be understood on nostalgian and on how/why some people think some nostalgia is acceptable and others is not, and indeed should nostalgia be guarded against at all times. I openly said I would not go to another re-union after the Stafford one as good as the first half of that night was. However scruples sometimes get taken over by social need, so we are definitely all a bit guilty these days. Lets be honest, we are at an age when our memories are as cool as we are going to get so comfort needs to be seeked! Therefore, I think the key first point is I do not think anyone has said there is anything wrong with being a fan of Wigan, I have openly stated my small time there was the best time of my life in some ways. I would challenge you to show where people are saying that. Definitely people, myself included, get fed up when some people hold Wigan as the only evidence of the scene, but that does not mean they are no longer a fan, surely. I think the key point for this is the current nostalgia scene driver is not purely about being fans of Wigan, its about recreating the happenings exactly both in music and fashion, of a very small defined period, and it’s a music and fashion that was mostly gone before I even started going. I was on the scene nearly 20 years relatively regularly for many of those years and for at least half of them involved on a weekly basis. Most people around me still are, and therefore for far longer. My experience of the scene was that it was anything but a nostalgia scene, as bizarre as that sounds for a scene based on old music, but sure you understand the point, and I don't like my scene and my experience being defined by people who weren't there, and in effect attempting to re-write history. In reality as someone so far off the scene now, it shouldn't matter, but it does. Just like the scene did when on it. I get your point re people still wearing mod gear etc, there is definitely an argument with that, and particularly the slavish detail to uniform, that’s why I have always thought the real mods were guys wearing current stuff, maybe retro styled, but with future thoughts, designers etc. But I would think the same point about both scenes and the nostalgia scenes and their differentatiors is the mindset. If you think people on nostalgia scene have same mindset as I did on scene or would have on scene, you are missing the point. And that’s the rub nowadays, I resent the nostalgia scene for turning my beloved Northern scene into the British Legion replacement my Mum and Dad would have populated at that age, and even until recently, far more than what people wear. I don’t like the uniform idea as it matches the mindset for me, and I don't like the idea it makes us a laughing stock to outside world, regardless of how other scenes also are. That’s irrelevant, I got into Northern as it was different, and the cliché of it being an escape was so true, of many things, but mostly of being normal and it was cool, Yes I know any middle aged scene is hardly going to be cool, but the music always will be, and the true all nighter scene will always hold some thrill. One of the saddest things I find now is I only ever read about how many good dancers were at Nostalgia scenes, and how much fun it is to dance together, rarely about the music. That’s not my scene. It shouldn't matter but it does. In all honesty, until recently I stopped thinking about nostalgia world and its idiosyncracies as it has f**k all to do with my world, but then lately there is almost a reversal on here with nostalgia scene trying to dictate how the scene should think, DJs should be robots, effectively rewrite history on what happened and when, how snobby rare soul people are, deciding a records quality depending on which scene its played on, then contradicting that with we are all one scene nonsense, are we f**K, chinstrokers etc etc, and in all honesty it does tickle sometimes, most of these people don't have a F****ng clue what it would be like to be on the scene I loved, so why comment? It’s not just a one way thing now when you look at it the dissing. And the fact people dancing 8-12 in a hall somewhere in East Midlands to the same records they danced to in 74-75 think they understand the Northern scene in its totality makes me sad! It shouldn't matter, but it does. Although the other bit of me agrees, leave them to it, it would be great if we could have a partitioned soul source! It shouldn’t matter I know, but it does. You did ask.

Okay, then I am taking it as my first play facts supercede Rod and Dave's and unless they get their minds restored sometime soon, I suspect there is no-one around to contradict me. Could be my first ever fact on all this......

Ann Sexton is on tip of my tongue, that was still getting played at Stafford was it not? Clifton Hall was really the b*llocks, another educating venue for me. I have it down as mostly modern but actually Pat's list sums up lots of it. I grew up lots, it was probably my college after my Wigan schooling, and travelled alone lots, it just never seemed like there was any other choice! F**k me I think I am catching nostalgia disease this last few weeks, heeelpppp.

Earl Jackson is Lonzine Cannon on Phillips, fantastic record. I loved Pat at Clifton Hall, loved Clifton Hall but often think I don't give Pat enough credit for his role in late Wigan to Stafford days, he really was turning sounds out and was really at top of the tree in those days.

Its not a c/u mate, its on Jovial, pretty sure I still have it, but cannot for life of me remember how it goes, another similar song keeps popping in my head and can't think what that is!!

Mind I have just read these adverts again, it talks about a Manchester Tiffs on Sunday 21/03, preceded by an all dayer on 17/03 which would make it a Wednesday and times are 9pm-2am so sounds like a Wed Night party! Bloody hell, just shows never believe what you read. So I am going for the 21/03 being the do I am talking about, (it was cold) so question is now had Stafford started by 21/03/82 and if so had Dave W dj'd?

Was Robs LP not much later, and didn't have Suspicion did it? I use to play Kim Weston and one other off this, before leaving it somewhere, so cannot totally remember the tracks, but didn't think it had any of the early big tracks Great LP though,

Hmm, not sure, only one that mentions Dave is the all dayer, so now wondering if the Jazz Funk do was an all nighter later but my memory banks has it as a Bank Holiday sunday all nighter, as I remember being unusually tired at the all nighter and needing a sleep, which as you know is unusual for me. However it looks like Rod and I failing to muster a whole brain cell between us may resign this to one of those unanswered questions. Pretty sure it was Manchester Tiffs though, was that near Arndale Centre?

As I say, that all Nighter may have just been before I went to Stafford rather than it being before Stafford, I certainly didn't go to early Staffords when Clifton Hall was still on. Date for this would be around early 82 I think, it was heavily advertised in Echoes as SAS if you still have them from that date. Do you remember the All Nighter I mean? It was one of 2 or 3 Richard and Bernie had in central Manchester, they were also doing Jazz Funk dos. It would have definitely been post Wigan so likely 82 as I was travelling alone then. I did speak to Dave early on, and remember him raving about some stuff but it was also the time of the great new stuff that I had on a tape from you guys (Spoilers always being my memory off that tape), not the Motown stuff so thats why I think it was mostly Motown new stuff that night, however I also sometimes think my name is Billy and today is Wednesday so not sure my memory is most trustworthy any more. Reason I remember Suspicion from that night was I came home in my mind convinced it was a record a mate had that I knew I could get cheap, which I did, and was I dissapointed to get Carlena Weaver Jealousy home to find it couldn't be more different. Dave played an hour of new stuff to a very empty dance floor, although Richard did same with less new stuff so I think it reflected the small unstimulated crowd more than the music

PS F****ng great record, and personally I don't think reissues of stuff like this impact, or should impact, on plays at the right venues. In fact I would even go as far as to say it helps. But I appreciate this is a view from an armchair so may be miles out. When is it coming out on CD is the more important question for me

Mr P, a number of Allantoniun Alumni are currently searching for the smiley looking over their sunglasses toi include on here, and behind our screens pointing to our eyes with our fingers, in that well known Glasgow Gangsta stylee, to show you we have our eye on you....... I was going to say glad to see Fruitmarket had some young trendy** Scots dj's playing alongside the same old names from Engerland, but may now have to consider my approval on hold. ** And just in case anyone is guffawing loudly at Mr Kent (aka Ewan) or Mr Peacock being seen as young and trendy in their passing middle aged days, I was more meaning the crowd they play to on a regular basis, well done boys, someone at least did their homework.

I seem to remember being at a Richard Searling?Bernie Golding Soul Appreciation Society (SAS) all nighter in trendy Manchester venue and Dave W laying loads of these for the first time. This would have been before Stafford I would have thought, or maybe before I first went to Stafford, it was fairly sparsely attended, and I remember a crowd of Scottish Jazz Funk guys, (there as SAS all dayer same place next day) being most active on dance floor, but in a mocking way? Anyone else remember that. I assume Rodney would be best placed but assume he is busy getting his Trotter enterprise record shop set up? I do remember travelling solo and not knowing another person in there.

WHat result, they werent't playing. Must have been a misprint on TV and papers......

I concur with Charlie, bloody lovely. It would like nice on my wall Mr K, but decimal place in wrong place for my pocket currently. WHat a cracking rarity, sort of stuff collecting is just made for.

The label that has the most information I have ever seen on 45 label. Would be interested for Robb to give some insight.

And since I am singing its praises elsewhere, lets bump this. I bought the colour version as it looks great, only flicked through it but I have an appointment with my sofa in my record room in the near future to read through this. I suspect it will be one of those page turners where I don't surface till I finish. If you haven't bought it, why not? Stuff like this needs recognised for all the work put into it. Well done Mr Wendell Windle

However just to be clear Mark W's book is available direct and easy from the UK and is better. So go and buy it now, everyone, research like that needs proper recognition so step away from google and get onto Blurb y'all.

Not in my experience as they are only allowed to charge UK postage on UK Amazon. I buy 2/3 books a week direct from States on Amazon, I generally just contact them in advance and agree postage, its not cheap, but most of them add the extra in UK site price to cover, and lots don't bother.