jocko

Did you get sorted for this? If not let me know, I have an issue I would let go. Just need to dig it out and check condition and would come with price, it won't be expensive, unless your dad is paying :-)

Hi there did you get sorted for this. K have a US copy that I think is clean and is £75 let me know if you aren't sorted and I'll dig it out.

I'd also like to ask a Marvin question but need to think on that one!

How how about getting some insight into the Gordy quality control process that he was part of, I believe. Was it as brutal as it sounded. Who got last say the group disagreed or did Berry get final say always. and if you are really brave, ask the story behind the split with Motown? and cheesy but interesting, most talented artist they worked with, and most talented in house songwriter they envied.

Ooomph. Two kidneys hopefully on offer from some enterprising young oldies DJ trying to raise cash as we speak! I would say tell Josie what does she know, but since the answer is lots and her husband (or her hubbie when she was on here) was built like the side of a barn, maybe I won't say anything. Tell her I forgive her for being the genius she is, but surely this is one record we all agree on, OOOOOMPH

And Bearsy is a bairn so surely he counts in the young team, don't let that follicly challenged smooth bonce fool you......

Tell them to buy better records than Butch, Andy D, Mick H, Kitch, Marco, Joel, Ady C, etc etc etc etc. Next question.

I agree but dont think I was saying that. I was repeating a whole set of myths that put together had questioned its heritage pre internet and pre USA collectors opinions being available to us mere mortals, rather than just those UK dealers who used to monopolise the relationships, And re numbers again I repeat I am speculating and gossiping, I haven't tried to say I am doing anything else if you read closely, other than its not a single figure disc. I am posting some questions for the more informed, a couple of which you have very kindly answered with thanks, and for that I thank you kindly. Have you been working in New York this week by any chance.

It wouldn't make sense singling out any other record given the title of thread and the subject discussed would it? I am highlighting the myths that were out there on its existence pre internet and looking for you experts to bust them, you already have done two with copies in states pre LP discovery and some turning up not in stone mint. So looks like a goodie. I am totally speculating on the numbers, although proposing a couple of names who would know much better. Its definitely not single figures though, I knew more than that personally who bought it in 80's from the two dealers.

Where are you getting the 7 copies from? There is significant double figure quantities, if not into the 100 copies in UK collections alone I bet. Soul Bowl very rarely put 1 or 2 copy things on his front page. Although it would be nice if someone who knows Mr A well enough to ask did so, as I am currently gossiping and speculating, which is all good fun. Interesting about the beat copies as most copies here in the 80's were brand spanking new. And most that come into sale seem in good nick. Thats why I asked about copies coming up earlier as from what I can remember UK dealers hadn't seen them, not that always means much pre internet and pre knowledge buying days.

Just ordered, great tip David. Might be worth getting it put up as an article so it stands out more and probably hangs around longer?

Its a site thing I think, and more about your status as newbie rather than the record I think. Go into feedback and sure there will be something there. Raised my first chuckle of the day.

Which allows me to neatly say that the other side is much better, not as traditional and dare I say it harder on the ear and feet but the side I played out towards the end of my stewardship of the disc (and the end of my dj career coincidentally!) A hypothetical question, if this was found out to be a legit issue produced post the LP say mid to late 80's would people then stop valuing it so much, and indeed stop playing it? Indeed would people then play it off LP? Or as its legit would people still carry on regardless? So if you are going to answer that. remember I said legit so no boring boot or ovo discussions!

Sorry mate, I wasn't meaning you with the Gerards quote, my attempted humour at not knowing Mr Outsiders true identity! Just trying to be humourous and failing as always on the interweb!

We are getting silly now. its a DJ tool, a great one, in my opinion, that adds to the Northern scene, doesn't detract, and while DJ Tool maybe an apt moniker for some of the DJ's today, the attack on DJ's that seems be to Gerards assistants only motive and only reason against them is just daft. And the fact that people seem to think its so wrong for dj's to have ego's seems bonkers to me, the other argument is surely you would need some sort of ego to put yourself through the torture a DJ has to go through on today's scene especially. Ego, under control, isn't always bad, and despite what the OP says, no DJ covers something up to give himself credit for the actual record, or even to replace the artist, its a tool used to make him more marketable and worth travellling to see, something I suspect lots of people on todays scene don't do! As other people say, cover ups arent for ever, they work to the benefit of the scene, with little lasting harm to the artist in the majority, if not all cases, , so lets move on now. The ironic thing is in general there are very few on a nationwide basis now, due to knowledge internet etc. I love the little local ones with a DJ trying to be clever, its fun, and it adds to the sort of scene I used to be on. Now we all agree with me, can this be closed now Mike. Thanks PS if we want to open a poetry one, I would love to discuss unkown and unread poems, particulary African American ones from 1964 onwards. Freebasing poetry anyone? (sure Jack Kerouac probably did that before us, but we can pretend we invented it!).

I think I was one of the first ones to call into question this 45's heritage, based on conversations that may have been figments of my imaginations, late 80's, but was shouted down at time, not unusual for me on here I suppose My comment at the time was this was discussed as unreleased at time of LP and I thought the 45 only appeared later, originally mostly from Japan. I got mines from Soul Bowl at time, pretty sure it was on his front page focus for a while for £7.50, and I though he had his from Japan. It was called into question by some collectors at that time, although with hindsight it seemed to be the ones that hadn't snapped one up! Both John Anderson and Ady P are out and about now, in fact I think Ady might be on here, as it would be interesting to hear of their findings. Other one to ask is Mr "Gilly" Gilbert, as I thought I had a discussion back in the day on this and he had not heard of it or seen it in issued format until the 45 appeared, in what seemed like quantity but looks like its been a couple of handfuls. Pretty sure it was him that told me about it before me snapping it up, but that goes for about 1/3 of my collection! As always with this, its almost 30 years, the discussions were held in dark smoke filled rooms, I was over stimulated with excitment at the music, therefore everything needs to be caveated with lots of converstations from that day run into one now, leading to contrary confusion. So it would be good to hear from the 3 people mentioned their side, sure Mr Welding can ask John Anderson for some input and we can get close to the final story? It would also be interesting to know where the 45 first turned up, i.e. did anyone in the 70's see one?

No its not disrespectful, in todays market its likely to create a bigger buzz about a record being played and therefore more likely to get the artist exposure and a rerelease, for people on the Northern scene it will ensure far more people being ultimately aware of it and the artist. So ultimately its very respectful. For people not on the Northern scene its completely irrelevant. I answered my questions, why won't you answer yours? in addition is it not relevant to understand how do you "discover" records, isn't it very arrogant to assume credit for discovering an artists hard work? We can go on.

My misreading of that article, sure if you read it again you will see why, however now having read your earlier stuiff, I see I was mistaken. The bigger picture is much funnier than that. I am on a diet anyway, but maybe next time.

Your hands must be cut to shreds with all those straws surely, I said nothing of the kind about any wrong way, and you know it. I included many examples of how people pay respect, lots of them all "guilty" of using cover ups. What I said, just one last time, is I firmly believe the ultimate respect is to pay them, all artists like to be paid for their work, its an accreditation of someone's appreciation of their artistic merit and the only way they can continue to produce their art. There are lots of ways artists are paid for their art, but except for the very fortunate few its the only way for them to continue. So lots of good reviews will warm their hearts, lots of fans appreciating them will warm their hearts, you playing their records to 10 of your mates telling them how exclusive that record is, how great it is, and repeating their names 50 times over like some Karmic mantra, will do nothing for them. Trust me. It’s a fact. However, we digress and I am falling into your trap here, that is not relevant and has nothing, nada, nichts to do with cover ups and Northern soul. So lets move on. Okay didn't see this earlier, but starting to get a picture. So if you aren't on any scene, who are you discovering the records for? And why are you trying to keep details back while you find some more? Okay, let me guess, you discover them, feed it out via mediums like this, get the interest of people on a scene that you aren't on, and then sell them for much more than you paid for them. All the time screaming the artists name so you pay respect while getting paid. Lots. And using a scene and the artist for personal profit. So back to my original point your only interest is in making second hand 45's easier to find. Glad we got there in the end. Yes, I totally understand why you don't like cover ups. And I am biting my tongue about the potential insults based on above of an ex funk DJ bitter after being bullied by Keb and Trouble, while been left djing to 8 people. After all this isn't Fryers forum, and we do stand by our morals on here don't we!

I did articulate it, you chose to ignore it as irrelevant. Its not no matter how much you tell yourself that.

So bootlegs are okay as long as they credit artists? Really?

Of course you can form opinions, I am just trying to help you form a correct one. And no, its not a cop out, its a bit like most football fans on the terraces every week thinking they can manage the team for the manager but not seeing the guys train ever day or the dynamics of the group, a perfectly normal enjoyable occurence that I am very guilty of, doesnt make them any less misguided than you trying to direct a scene you have no involvement in or don't understand. Just as an outsider looking in these days I dispair at people trying to fix something that isn't broken, especially when they have no interest in it. You can see how I am confused by the argument surely. Surely the most important point here is it makes it likely, not whether it is more or less likely. Thats a moot point to the artist, they will glady take both I suspect. But if you really don't understand how a record getting plays on the Northern scene can lead to a reissue in todays market you really don't understand do you. Drop Ady Croasdel a line and sure he can help you get an informed opinion on that one (He works for Kent and is a DJ, massive moral paradox for him, but he seems to cope). No, its on the artists terms, I buy what they have produced and what is legally available. Out of interest do you? And no I haven't said that is only way, read above. But I bet its the way the artists like best. The fact you seem to think a pat on the back from you is all they want seems to suggest your view of your moral compass may be more important than the artists desire. Lets ask them, do you want money or just respect? What do you think they will answer. When you break it down, your argument is technically flawed, practically flawed, and actually morally flawed. I assume you are also concentrating your crusade on the pubs, clubs and shops that play new music unlicensed? Or is it only old Soul 45's you want to preserve? I am am genuinely now baffled by your motives.

There you go, bringing the moral thing in again. I explain above why its unconnected. Comparing a second hand vinyl practice with the production of a piece of new art is just so misguided, it just misses the point completely. And comparing lots of people on the Northern scene to Wall St Traders in morals, really, you have well and truly pushed me off any high ground I often get accused off, you have obviously been taking in by the Bullingdon boys on the political threads, they arent typical honest! This argument has been done a number of times, it doesnt change, and without being rude, you just don't get it. As I say most people I know pay all respect to artists they can by buying books, CD's, creating magazines, writing websites supporting pish weekenders because they have live acts on. What more can be done? That has not bearing on what they do with second hand 45's that have been lying in some darkened warehouse for 45 years. I am pretty sure I know what artists would prefer and the fact some idiots give artists hope by saying they are massive in UK, meaning being played once a week in a darkened hall, isnt showing respect, its generally trying to get second hand vinyl, cheap! Again without being rude, if you don't get why they aren't connected, you never will. It just is.

So if you are not on the scene why are you bothered by practises on it? In reality its got f**k all to do with you, and your argument and respect etc just doesn't stand up when talking about the second hand 45 market, which is what covers up are only connected with. To misquote the phrase no artists were hurt in the practice, this has never been more appropriate. It will occasionaly lead to a reissue as in Kent, so the only argument is actually positive. My comment about buying music is not balancing it up, quite the opposite, its saying I pay respect where it should be paid, and do not in way connect that with any second hand vinyl I buy. Its relevance is lots of people bump their gums about respect but actually buy no music where the artist or the right person gets paid, as they only buy second hand vinyl, so in reality their argument is to make second hand vinyl more available to them, nothing to do with respect to the artist at all. There is nothing to defend or mitigate. It just is. Being off the scene means you will never get it, so why try. What difference does it make to you? And don't quote the moral stuff, thats just hypocritical nonsense when talking about the second hand vinyl market, unless you pay a % of everything you sell buy to the right person. Really? Lets not go down that blind alley.

This is just another argument that proves there are lots of people on the Northern Soul scene that don't have the first clue about the Northern Soul scene.Monty Python would have a field day with this. Cover Ups are an integral essential, fun and correct part of the Northern scene, no argument is possible. If you don't like it F8**k over to the classical music scene or something similar. It might regenerate a scene that seems to be dying on its ass due to being "cleansed"! And before I get the respect, artists etc etc argument. i spend £000's a year I would say on music where the artist or the right person gets paid, between buying new music and as many legit compilations that come out as I can. Do all these arguing against cover ups do the same, or are you just trying to make the world of djing easier for yourself! Carl don't answer this, as you are obviously arguing from a different angle, although in all honesty still nothing to do with the Northern scene.