Dave Moore

Hokidoki.

Hi Joe, If it's 'complete' with the title strips how does 20 squidleys sound. Alternatively I have just found a Demo copy of Honey and The Bees - Why Do You Hurt The One You Love - Arctic and so have an issue up for trade?

I'd appreciate it if someone could help me complete the set of these. I need nice clean copies of the following: Jr Walker - Shotgun Martha and The Vandellas - Heatwave Supremes - Where Did Our Love Go (Cover only if necessary) Supremes - A Bit Of Liverpool (Cover only in necessary) Marvin Gaye - Moods of Marvin Gaye Supremes - Supremes Sing Holland Dozier Holland Also...if anyone has any jukebox title strips for ANY of the Motown Mini LPs I'd be interested. Also, Also....still looking for a copy of The Miracles - Going To A Go Go on the TOPSS cardboard pic disc if anyone has one. Any help appreciated but please don't send me a link to Ebay.

I think we have a lot in common in these respects despite our differing outlooks Paul. Problem for the specialist shops is that there aren't enough of us to warrant them staying in business. They can't carry the diversity of products. E.G. I went last Saturday to the last indie vinyl shop in Burnley. I went there to support the store owner who I've known for 30 years on and off. I asked him for some vinyl cleaning fluid and a vinyl duster. I could have bought these online much easier but like you I'd prefer to support the indie. His reply..." We don't stock this stuff anymore Dave, we do have the wipes if that's any use though". I've no doubt that the next time I pop in there there'll be an "Everything Must Go" sale sign in the window. Times this by the 1000 shops in the country still managing top trade and it's over. Same as the listening booths, same as the bargain bin LPs, same as the nice 4 track EPs with luverly covers, same as decimilisation, same as short pants at school, same as playing conkers.......we are the remnants of a previous age and in business if you can't break the mould when needed you're finished. You're also, like me, fortunate to be in a position where you can actually afford to have a conscience. Many people haven't got that luxury and would scoff at the moral argument. The way of the world eh Mate? It's all 'fooked up' and needs a good revamp.

I agree that the future is up in the air. That the rules have changed and that business as a whole, especially small business, is going to find it difficult to grow and and many will go to the wall. My point is that the product dealt with here has emotional attachments for many and sometimes it clouds the judgement and fuzzes a completely objective view. I also agree that many large corporations have abandoned any pretence of morality (Blackwater and Halliburton come to mind imediately), but the bottom line is business has to compete and operate in the environment as it is and not as we'd like it to be. The analogy of sweatshops is drowned out by the mass of UK consumers on any given Saturday who inundate Primark for their products. That's real life. Whether I agree with it makes no difference to the fact that it's there and the recent success of the likes of Aldi and Lidl European wide is testament to the fact that people would rather sweep morality under the carpet for a cheap pair of jeans. I've had a few emails over the past 3 weeks asking me to drop the price of There's That Beat! magazine due to the exchange rate. I'd love to, but it's not feasible. The unit cost is more than the cover price! The more mags I sell, the more money I lose! Until of course I can attain the numbers that reduce the cost per unit. In a small niche market that will never happen. Therefore, it's a labor of love like Neil stated about Joe Boy. The thing is...I knew this when I started and so all is cool. If I was to try and turn it into a commercial venture it wouldn't be the same product. I would have to reduce costs so much that it would bear no relation to what we wanted. So...we take the hit every issue simply because we enjoy what we do. No rose tinted glasses, no stamping of feet for lack of support, no criticism of other similar products, no business plan that relies on external forces. Just a couple of guys who recognise that the music industry in general is now fragmenting itself so much that eventually the danger is that it's a series of 'fans' pumping out the good stuff at a meagre profit or loss whilst the big 5 and a handful of artists clean up. Sad but that's how I see it.

Andy forgot to tell you the whole story.He preferred to 'not mess about with Ebay etc and would rather just pay 20 quid for one". Meanwhile the one I sourced for him on Gemm sold. (Probably to someone on here!). What is it they say...snooze you loose. Bet they're like buses....three will come along in short succession. Apologies for ambigous post though, bit of a mix up there.

Sorry Paul, I disagree. You're viewing it in isolation. You HAVE to look at the situation purely from a business perspective. It's the ONLY perspective that will do any good. It will enable the industry to a search out new ways of thinking. New ways of delivering it's products to the end user. The environment in which the industry finds itself is what it is. It won't change, therefore the industries that are effected by it HAVE TO. The alternative is to leave the industry as you WILL go under. I notice in this thread that no one has offered up an alternative to the practices which have now proved to be ineffective. So, what are the alternatives? The old guard have gone. Where's the new breed? I'll guarantee someone will rise from these ashes, they always do. I used Branson as an example earlier. Do you think it was coincidence that he unloaded Virgin when he did? Long before the warning bells of many others were even twitching never mind ringing. The financial climate for what are termed "luxury gods" will only get colder as the months progress and many other industries are going to feel the sting. The strong will survive but the companies who have not prepared, (not just their balance sheets but their ethos and mindset), will perish. In a niche market that sting will be even more acute. Better to sell 1000 units for $1.00 than 100 at $5.00. Devalues the commodity? Sure, but it also ensures that the next product along gets a shake of the stick too by ensuring the provider is still in business. The simple yardstick is the consumer themselves. I can sell 10 units of a quality product at 10.00 and leave myself feeling that I've done the product proud, maintained it's value and given the consumer a great deal. Job done. Or I can sell 100 units of the same product at 1.00 and leave the consumer feeling great that he's got a great deal. Job WELL done. Bottom line is.....product is the same, consumer has the choice. It's HIS input that counts. If anyone has any doubt which one he'd prefer.....ask him, he's sat next to you...

This is exactly what I mean about lack of response. There's no doubt about it that people were sluggish (and still are), when it comes to radical change, in any industry. Hence the likes of Rupert Murdoch, Bill Gates, Branson being so successful. As their competitors backslapped each other on their annual returns, these true entrepreneurs were looking at the game a number of stages further on. I know these examples are at the extreme but the prinicipal's the same. As you say Neil, can't blame the band, or their management. The formula is fine for the few artists that are in the position to be able to do that particular pitch, but it doesn't bode well for the newcomers eh? The music is now completely devalued. The world has moved on and done it at pace. There's no changing that. With the digital/internet age also now firmly esconced there's no going back whatsoever. What the industry now needs is someone to grab it by the the throat and shake it up a little. Someone who can look forward, with a new business model, as opposed to to lamenting the good ole days. It's happened in many different industries in the past and once the juggernaut of progress/change is let loose it's almost impossible to stop. Ask any cotton mill worker from Lancashire, miner from Derbyshire or porcelain painter from Stoke. Bad day for the people who will have to find other employment and especially at this time of year.

The minute the industry chose to bury it's head in the sand over the progress that released the buyer from the clutches of the industry suits was the real nail in the coffin. It's a business, if you don't provide the consumer with what they want then they'll source it from elsewhere and you're gonna pay the price. Just because we have an emotional attachment to music that doesn't mean it can play within it's own rules and ignore the market forces. When Prince hit the first deal with a major newspaper, the writing was on the wall. If lay people like us could see it, why didn't the suits respond? Always laff at the slagging of the Motown unreleased bootlegs people do. If certain people hadn't 'manufactured' the discs then we'd never hear 'em. Universal have no idea what the record collector wants, you've only to look at the rehash of the Motown 50th stuff to appreciate that. All re-releases of stuff that sold the first time round so obviously it MUST sell again. They deserve what they get, (which will be poor sales of badly researched/unimaginativley packaged Motown Yesteryear type retreads imo). You look at the stuff Kent and JoeBoy produce and it beggars belief that these 'majors' have the arrogance to churn out their stuff and expect the consumer to simply suck it up. The music 'collector' is a reliable animal. He is, by nature, a hoarder. But treat him like a fool at your peril. I feel that the serious collectors market was one aspect of the business that people basically ignored and once the big five lost interest in it a good innovative company that was prepared to invest time and effort could have maybe stood a chance. Ace/Kent and Joe Boy make a living, so it can be done. Just needed someone with a clear vision instead of someone in bi-focals.

Tony, Check out George MacGregor's thread on SDF. Not much about R and R but he'll have any answers to questions you have. The guys is a mine of great info. Link here.... https://soulfuldetroit.com/forum/index.html Not sure if that will take you to the actual thread but if you type in Ronnie and Robin on the search facility it'll show you what's there.

Now we're getting somewhere. So, a Carolina based group (Appreciations), recording a NY song in Memphis, that gained a release on a Detroit (albeit NY distributed) label! There's GOT to be a conduit/connection here somewhere? Any chance of you transcribing the GM interview Neil? If so give me a shout Mate and we'll feature it in There's That Beat!

Wish I'd never asked. I've read some ego based gubbins on here in my time but this thread takes the biscuit. Thanks to the guys who got stuff to me by PM or offlist via email, it's appreciated. Gonna close this thread now before I barf. It's just become a place for self styled 'superstars' to gob off about their self obsessed personalities. Start yer own threads.

Sorry, that's why I asked. Have you any personal contact with her? I would love to try and get her on stage somewhere. Any help you could give would be appreciated. I've been unsuccessful twice in Philly in trying to convince people it would be worth while.

Had a bit of rummage around musicwise now. Thanks for the PMs and emails off folk who pointed me in the direction of some of the more soulful strands of the 'house scene'. I don't think the majority of the actual music is quite up my street as it didn't blow my socks off whereas stuff as far back as The Invitations on Dynovoice right through to The Parliaments on Cabell and later has done. Couple of observation though from a house novice, probably worthless to any officianado of this particular strand of music but there ya go: I can definitely relate to the soulful antecedence of the style of music, or at least to quite a swathe of it. But then I can also do that with the Bee Gees too via the disco boom. Don't make the actual Bee Gees soulful though does it? Billy Jackson and the Bee Gees would occupy the same podium on the charts and be tagged as the same genre of music. But only one has the soulful content. Make sense? The references I got in relation to the likes of Drizzabone etc are, I feel, the cases of the more soulful sides of the style having a direct connotation with what I would call a more traditional soul sound. Frankie Knuckles I found was sort of middle of the road. I found it very bland and lacking any punch in either direction, dancewise or soulwise. Hypnotic, but boring. Throughout my musical journey (if you can call listening to only 100 tracks a journey, although most were recommended by so called 'experts'), I kept returning to the same thought....It sounds an awful lot like revamped disco music of the 70s. Sorry if that upsets the officianados but that's what I heard and as has been pointed out by a few on this thread we've been around enough music over the last 30 odd years to reach our own conclusions. Finally, I thought that the music was championed by DJs and NOT music collectors. (No surprise there though eh?). Nearly all the sites, forums, videos etc I chased down started with... I played this at, or this (insert any DJ) mix is..., or were in fact made by DJs. As I said at the beginning, I'm a complete novice to this music's branding but didn't feel the music stood alone. It needed the DJs to champion it and NOT the collectors/listeners. It didn't seem to have it's own niche musically like say RnB or Modern, or Northern has. It just seemed to be a mix of disco albeit a fair bit of it had a soulful connection. Now maybe when heard in a the right setting I may 'get it' more but I've always loved music that can be listened to whereever you are. That maybe an personal idiosynchrisy that means I ain't never gonna 'get it'. So...it may seem a negative reaction to the music but it had it's plusses. I've now a list of artists I intend listen to and I'm sure some of their material will appeal and that's broadened my personal horizons which is the box I wanted ticked. Oh..and.....good to see that the tolerance and respect that is prevalent on the Northern secene is also alive and kicking on the housey scene too! Cheers Peeps!

I also failed after a comprehensive search for Dena Barnes. The Duke Browner connection is also now completely severed due to his distaste for secular music/life nowadays. When I spoke to Harry Balk though it transpired that Mr Browner and Ms Barnes did at least 4 tracks together. Now unless I've missed it, I only know of two. Be nice to hear the other two eh? Ian, Any personal contact with Yvonne Baker?

I should hope not Sir, or I would feel inclined to heckle the next excellent percussionist you have in the Modern Room at Prestatyn.

I wouldn't know a house record from a reggae record. When I asked about ska, reggae, bluebeat etc I got loads of samples, examples, help to identify which genre was which, how to differentiate between them and generally good stuff that helped me to appreciate the genre as I didn't think I ever would. My enquiry about Soulful House was hopefully gonna produce the same result, but unfortunately all you wanna do is rattle on about Nazis. Move over, Mate, make room for someone with better manners and a willingness to share their limited knowledge. Unless of course you are the Soulful Ominipitent One that your 'name' would suggest.

Fook Me! Who rattled your cage?

Hi Bob, I'm hoping to hear DEFINITELY recorded in Detroit otherwise I'm gonna need a visit to the earwax cleaner outerer!

The 'L' stood for Long player as far as I know. TML was the mono prefix and STML the stereo prefixfor Tamla Motown Long players albums in UK. At least that's what I've always understood.

It certainly seems that way to me. Strange that some folk ( well respected folk too), seem to accept that these records are 'soulful'. Then again most of them are DJs too! Appreciate the honesty. It's not for me, mi lugs are far to refined now at my age!

Excellent! Coincidentaly, I picked up Appreciations I Can't Hide It - Aware from Barrie on Friday......ain't that spooky! If someone tells me that the bari sax break on the 45 is some South Carolina beatnick, my 'flabber' will be well and truly 'gasted'!! Always had it (and my lugs still tell me), Mr Terry all the way. Look forward to some definitive info.

But that's got nothing to do with the quality of the music has it Beeks? Your outlook is once again from a DJ/Scene based perspective Mate. Rock n roll has 'had it's day' but that doesn't detract from the quality of the music does it? I've listened to the links and appreciate the direction some have pointed me in...first impressions are not good though . It all sounds very much like distorted disco to me. I can't recognise anything I would describe as soul in there at all. I have this vision of Rave and Ibiza and folks with whistles that create a scene as opposed to listen to music. Maybe I'm just destined to stay in my musical comfort zone of classic sounding 60s and 70s soul. Ah well.....socks still firmly on, but at least I tried.

Hi Tony, Got a link or owt Mate?