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Everything posted by Dave Moore
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Steve, I have the complete catalogue of The Steals work. Haven't we been down this Smallwood Brothers route once? Weren't they a George Kerr group? He'd maybe have some answers for you as to who the line up consisted of etc. The Steals wrote 3 songs for The Smallwood Brothers (all on Atco if I remember correctly but nothing that was released on Wand). Send me some specifics you want and I'll see if they can help with anything further. Regards, Dave
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The Contours and Dennis Edwards - Just A Little Misunderstanding: Kent CD
Dave Moore commented on Chalky's article in News Archives
Crackin' job all round! ;-) We need more of this.........much more! ;-) Regards, Dave -
You're right Ady, they were Father and son. I rushed the writing and that slipped through. I suspect it was Bruce Weinroth but if so he surpassed himself as it's a really good production. Maybe with Joe Tarsia on hand..... I'll report back with any more info once I speak to the guys again. Regards, Dave
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Sheer quality. Regards, Dave
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Hey Guys.... Little bit more info for you. (From correspondence with Rick Cooper who met Mr Weinroth Snr in 1974 when he went over for the master tapes for the UK Cream issue of "I'm Not Strong Enough"). Rick was told that apparently Kip Gainsboro, who is credited with the production role of the song was a made up name comprising, ..... The family Dog (Kip) and the Weinroth's address (which was 1203 Gainsboro Rd, Bala Cynwyd, Pa 19004). So there you have it. All those years of trawling for Kip Gainsboro was a waste of time but now thankfully - put to rest! Fantastic! Thanks Rick! Of course we now have to find out exactly who it was that produced the session? Bruce Weinroth? "Boobie" Thomas? Cameo Parkway staffer? I'm onto it. Regards, Dave
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Http://www.vintagefestival.co.uk Car Boot 20Th - 21St
Dave Moore replied to Stevegods's topic in All About the SOUL
If you know that Events should be in the Events Calender then why didn't you post it there? Or alternatively submit a feature/article. Have not deleted the topic but have locked it to allow you to repost it in the correct place. Regards, Dave (Site Mod Team) -
Like most things, "Success has many fathers but failure is an orphan". You'll rarely hear a musician admit to playing on a 45 that completely bombed and if they do it inevitably bombed because of someone else! Whereas on the hits they ALL played! LOL! Carol Kaye is undoubtedly a talented lady but over the years she made some extraordinary claims including the one that she invented the intro hook and subsequently played the bass on Uptight by Stevie Wonder! Many of her claims have been shot down over the years. I'm not saying she didn't play on all that West Coast stuff like the Beach Boys etc but she was nowhere near the 60s Motown hits of the day. Ref: The Funk Bros band v The MFSB Band... That's the first time I've ever heard anyone claim that Jamerson's musicianship fell short! LOL! Both bands would deliver their own interpretations of any charts they were given and often played without written out references. A good Philly example of that is Cliff Nobles - The Horse. Anyone doubting Jamerson's 'musicianship' should really look no further than Marvin Gaye's - "What's Going On". And for a metronome like performance in a different style, with not a single flaw - Marvin and Tammi's - "Ain't No Mountain High Enough". Regards, Dave
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The bassist on 'What Kinda Lady' was Ronnie Baker. I suspect he was also on "Girl, Don't Make Me Wait Too Long" as well. That particular recording hails from Leon Huff's time with John Madara's Double Diamond Music, which was based just across he road from the studio (Cameo Parkway), where both tracks were recorded. Early Young, who joined Ronnie Baker, and Norman Harris as the renowned rhythm section of MFSB was a sometime member of The Trammps post PIR and today has his own version of the group that still perform. Both great Philly tracks. And of course the best way to hear the guys performing "What Kinda Lady" is on the Huff Puff label, (1003), on which they released the studio track as an instrumental entitled 'Lady Lady Lady' by The Producers. (The flip of which is also a great recording "Love Is Amazing"). Regards, Dave
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A LESSON IN PERFCTION - CREATING A MUSICAL MASTERPIECE By Dave Moore At last year’s New Century Soul 10th Anniversary Allnighter we had the pleasure of the company of 2 Philadelphia Legends, Bunny Sigler and Ronnie Walker. I was lucky enough to spend the week with them and Martha, Bunny’s wife, as we chaperoned them from airport to rehearsals to gig etc resulting in finally seeing Bunny sing a whole Northern set. Well folks...it’s that time of year again! When Chris Waterman gave me the thumbs up to try and entice the group for this year’s event, it meant I had finally had a chance to maybe see/hear one of my favourite 45s sung live, by the people who not only performed it but also wrote it! I’d tried unsuccessfully to convince the late great Deon Jackson to appear for his UK fans and was devastated when he passed without having been successful and as far as the group for this upcoming Anniversary event were concerned, I was like a dog with a bone. It simply had to happen! I’d had it dangled before me and set about trying to put in place on of my life’s ambitions, to see The Four Perfections perform ... LIVE! The story of The Four Perfections - “I’ll Hold On b/w I’m Not Strong Enough” — Party Time 1001 is a tale littered with Philly musical gliterazzi and was written in the basement of the girl’s dormitory of Cheyney State College where Eddie Holman would teach Mervin Steals, his school friend, the intricacies of the piano on an old piano that was down there. It was at these covert basement piano sessions that the first draft of the song was written, with a doomed love affair as its foundation. “The song was really created by Mervin although I helped with the words, as he had an unfortunate love affair, which our Mother disapproved of. Then his girlfriend turned out to be unfaithful and that’s where the song came from — he wasn’t strong enough to break away”. — Melvin Steals (Founder member of The Four Perfections). (1) Whilst students at Cheyney State College, twin brothers Melvin and Mervin Steals were joined originally by James ‘Channey’ Turner, a budding guitarist and fellow vocalist Raymond ‘Chip’ Porter and became The MCs, a play on their initials. It was this line up that would play the talent shows around town, often in direct competition with a group with, what they considered a strange name: The Delphonics! When ‘Channey’ left the group shortly after, the trio recruited former Overbrook High School student and high tenor vocalist Barry Lessend to the line up. Barry was a friend of the previously mentioned Delphonics, had been performing with another campus based group, The High Chaparral but decided to cross deck to The MC’s. The quartet now changed their name to the one that would adorn DJ’s platters on the Northern soul scene ever since they discovered it in the early seventies. The Four Perfections. Prior to graduation, Eddie Holman introduced the aspiring singers to a group of record producers that he’d hooked up with that were making a name for themselves at Frank Virtue’s studio on Philadelphia’s Broad Street. This of course was Randolph, Stiles and McDougall, the triumvirate soul fans would come to know as the Harthon Team. The guys recorded a demo of a Jesse James penned song for the team but it wasn’t judged strong enough for release. That wasn’t the end of the song though as The Harthon Team played the demo to another group whose version was deemed of the right quality and The Intentions — “Don’t Forget That I Love You b/w The Night Rider” — Phillips 40428 saw a release in 1967. The Intentions, (from nearby Middletown, PA.) were a white, 10 piece group whose Phillips 45 was the only foray into the business they achieved, which is a bit of a shame as the 45 is as fantastic an example of sixties, mid tempo, high tenor vocal gymnastics as you’ll hear. (2) The lack of success with Harthon at Virtue’s left them undeterred however and they were introduced to Bruce Weinroth, the son of a local judge and a co owner, alongside his brother Irvine, of ShowTime Records who, at the time were preparing to launch another group of two sets of brothers: The Showstoppers. The Weinroths had the guys audition on a song they already had, “I’ll Hold On” and once Melvin offered up “I’m Not Strong Enough”, as the possible flip, it was enough to get them a deal. Studio time at Cameo Parkway’s 309 Broad St facility was booked, the talents of Joe ‘Boobie’ Thomas, the author of “I’ll Hold On” were used to arrange “I’m Not Strong Enough” and Kip Gainsboro was given the helm of the production session. (3) The famous old building that had seen the likes of Chubby Checker, The Orlons, Dee Dee Sharp and The Tymes amongst others was about to deliver up a unique, one off, double sider that would attain cult status thousands of miles from its creative birthplace. The studio band built around the famous core of future MFSB stars that day included Karl Chambers on drums, Ronnie Baker on bass and Norman Harris on guitar and under the conductor ship of Thomas and the legendary engineering skills of Jo Tarsia they laid down two tracks that enraptured soul fans of both the Northern and the sweet persuasions. (4) With Barry Lessend taking the vocal lead on the A side together they created a slice of sweet soul heaven. Almost a beat ballad, Barry’s pitch perfect, high tenor lead soars above his supporting counterparts as he relays his sadness at having his heart broken but being determined to hold on until his girl asks him back into her life. The whole performance drips the qualities that make sweet soul so enticing, perfect harmonies, a great, almost doo wop inspired lead and a laid back but metronome like track to place it all on. Not surprisingly the side became a much sought after sweet soul classic, so much so that that late great aficionado of the genre Chicagoan Bob Abrahamian and I would dissect the song note by note, with him adamant that there must have been a female voice in there somewhere. (5) The flip of course is the side that seduced fans across the pond though. The opening salvo of the echoing tubular bell (?) paired with Baker’s subdued bass-line is instantly recognisable and once the rhythm guitar, deep baritone sax and bongos come to the party I’m afraid it’s all over, they’ve got you! Feet tapping, head nodding, you’re dance-floor bound, whether you like it or not! This side sees Melvin up front and centre on lead vocal duties and a fine job of it he does too. The guys, as a group unit, only ever released this one outing and there’s a story behind the whys and wherefores of that decision involving The Weinroths, The Steals Brothers, the groups break up and re-formation and the effects of graduating and needing to start work but all that’s for another day,. (and you’ll need to buy the book!). All the group members have stayed connected to the music business in some way and the Steals Brothers would go on to write songs for such luminaries as Thom Bell, Gamble and Huff, The Spinners, Ecstasy Passion and Pain, Archie Bell and The Dells, Major Harris, The Impressions, Miki Farrow and whole host of others under their pseudonyms of Mystro and Lyric. Amongst the songs the group will perform for the New Century Anniversary Allnighter will be one such song that delivered them a gold record when they furnished it to Thom Bell of Mighty Three Music. “Could It Be I’m Falling In Love” is a song written by Melvin when he was ‘courting’ his then girlfriend and now wife of 40 years Adrena. (It must have impacted on her!). The song of course was recorded by the group Thom Bell assaulted the Hot 100 with as The Spinners — “Could It Be I’m Falling In Love b/w Just You And Me Baby”— Atlantic 2927. And that is just the tip of The Steals Brothers’ musical iceberg. To welcome The Four Perfections to the shores of UK is fantastic. For Chris to have secured the services of Stone Foundation band is fantastic. To hear an iconic 45 sung by the group I used to wonder about when I was dancing away to it over 35 years ago, is going to be fantastic! What better way to spend a winter’s night in Manchester, than with legends! See ya’ll there. Dave Moore © Copywrite protected. Not to be reproduced in any form without the expressed permission from the author. P.S. The full stories of The Four Perfections, The Steals Brothers, Edie Holman, The Intentions, The Showstoppers, The Weinroths, ‘Boobie Thomas’ etc is all in the upcoming book Philly Soul: It’s Roots and History which should be on the shelves in late summer hopefully. Notes and References: 1. Authors interview with Melvin Steals of The Four Perfections. 2. The Four Perfections weren’t aware that their demo had been used or was even in existence until The Intentions Phillips 45 was highlighted to group members. 3. Joe ‘Boobie’ Thomas would go on to become a stalwart of Curtis Mayfield’s studio musicians in Chicago. 4. Joe Tarsia would, a year later, establish Sigma Sound Studios around the corner at 212 N 12th St, where he cornered the market in Gamble and Huff productions and would later return to Cameo’s old building at 309 S Broad St to renovate it, once Gamble and Huff had bought it, creating what become known as Sigma II. 5. No female singers were used during the session but of course could have been added to the mix later. I like to think that the male, Philly, high tenor signature sound, is all there is vocally but it does sound like there may have been a female voice added later. ------------------------------------------------------------------ added by site The Four Perfections are appearing at this years New Century Soul Clubs 11th Anniversary @ Radcliffe Saturday 29th November 2014 Details follow... New Century Soul Manchester presents 11th Anniversary Allnighter with The Four Perfections and Stone Foundation with 3 rooms of Northern, Modern & Rare Soul 9.00pm til 8.00am £20.00 Radcliffe Civic Suite, Thomas Street, Radcliffe, Manchester, M26 2UH www.newcenturysoul.co.uk - 07737 341585 Tickets are now available to purchase online via http://www.newcenturysoul.co.uk/
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The story of The Four Perfections - “I’ll Hold On b/w I’m Not Strong Enough” — Party Time 1001 is a tale littered with Philly musical gliterazziin the basement of the girl’s dormitory of Cheyney State College where Eddie Holman would teach Mervin Steals... Tap to view this Soul Source News/Article in full
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That's about the size of it I reckon too as far as 'Bird Walking' is concerned. The Shirley Turner vocal is a Harthon/DynoDynamics product by Johnny and Luther. Des, you ever come across any of the group or any provenance as to who they were and where they were from? Regards, Dave
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Hi Guys, I've spoken to Sonny a few times about the group but his recollections aren't 100% reliable in my opinion. The Bird Walking track was a Virtue production involving Johnny Stiles and Luther Randolph. I have some, (tenuous), info about the group but will keep that off here for now as it may influence any furhr contributions and I'd rather see what (if anything), people come up with independently before pooling it all but I've never traced any connection to Detroit with Sonny's All Brothers label. Regards, Dave
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Hi Rob, Yep, the list of Philly groups that recorded in the Big Apple is about as long as your arm. Have you seen group line-ups listed anywhere? What makes you believe they are the same group? Any assistance appreciated. Regards, Dave
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Try Ryan here... Regards, Dave
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Quick question guys... Anyone know of any provenance to link the All Brothers/Phil LA of Soul group with the earlier Witney line up? The groups sound completely different but with ten years or more between he recordings I'm just wondering....mmm? With Witney based in NY and los of groups making the trip to the Big Apple I guess it's feasible? Any help/info appreciated. Regards, Dave
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You went to the wrong do Mate. Regards, Dave
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You know... sometimes you just gotta accept that life's sometimes just not fair. She's better than I was a 18! Regards, Dave
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As a wise old sage one said to me when I made the same observation: "Just because the dance-floors aren't quite as full, doesn't mean folks aren't having a good time." Regards, Dave
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Big thanks to everyone who's taken part so far. At the end of week 2 the leading nominations are below in order. If you haven't nominated yet you can do so here: Regards, Dave LEADING HALL OF FAME NOMINATIONS a. Female Vocal Linda Jones Maxine Brown Lorraine Chandler b. Male Vocal Edwin Starr Darrell Banks David Ruffin c. Female Group Apollas Candy & The Kisses Honey and The Bees/Yum Yums d. Male Group The Precisions Detroit Spinners TSU Toronados e. Mixed Group: The Ad Libs The Exciters The Esquires f. Pre Production Staff: Van McCoy Fred Smith Mike Terry g. Post Production Staff: Weldon A McDougall III Bobby Robinson Richard Searling h. Outstanding Contribution Ady Croasdell 6Ts (100 Club) Soul Sam
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Just a pointer... If you want to post about the night then it's customary to do it in the actual Event thread in the Events Calendar. This place is really meant for DJs to post their playlists. Regards, Dave (Site Mod Team)
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Ian Dewhirst 6 Hour Dvd Documentary
Dave Moore replied to kevinsoulman's topic in All About the SOUL
Anything that gets Mr Anderson telling a few stories gets a big thumbs up from me too. Regards, Dave -
Have moved to Sales as it's more suited to here. Regards, Dave (Mod Forum Team)
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The lady you wouldn't want to be around is in fact the late great..... Linda Jones. #2 is arguably the greatest individual songwriter and producer to contribute to NS... Van Mccoy #3 is The Ad Libs #4 is Weldon A McDougal III of course, with my copy of Larry Clinton, that he helped produce. #5 is.... Yep... Bobby Robinson. You got your nominations in? Regards, Dave