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US Back Beat demo is the one for me Pure class Cheers Richard

Hi everyone I have always collected to try and get the best condition copy and best format that I can of a record. This means, like many of us I'm sure, I have a lot of "spares". So, I think it is time to thin out my collection a bit and this raises the painful dilemma of which copies are the most and least desirable. Sometimes it is clear - rare demo is best - or rare issue is best Other times, it is condition. Sometimes it is harder - so what about a record which is signed by the artist? Is this more or less desirable than a clean copy? My hunch says clean is better, but I'm wavering Anyone got any thoughts on that one please, or any other aspect of what the heck to do when faced with lots of difficult decisions about which to keep and which to let go? Cheers Richard

Shame it's not the instrumental on the other side Sorry - not very PC of me

Would be really interested if anyone can add anything to Dave's really interesting account of how records were treated like this at the Wheel to obscure their identity. Cheers Richard

That's quite a small list - would be much easier if you just posted the details in the thread

That says it is Pied Piper production - but I think it isn't. Surely it was a GWP production Richard

Great reply Dave - that's brilliant! I wonder if it's possible for me to find out more about the record after all this time. Might give it a go. Cheers Richard

The Embraceables is a fantastic record in my book - almost the epitome of the 60s street-level Detroit sound - it's soooooo Detroit Bloody great record both sides! You have excellent taste sir! Cheers Richard

Thanks Dave - that's really interesting I have to confess that I thought the only reason for obscuring all the identification details on a record like that could really only be to hide its identity - i.e. do a "Cover Up" on it. Was a bit embarrassed to suggest it though, as it seemed a bit of an off-the-wall way of doing it - I really only know about covering-up by means of sticking labels on. If it is a "cover-up" as you suggest, and that seems very plausible I have to say, I think it's a really interesting artefact I remember I got it '79ish from Rob Smith's in Nottingham. Appreciate all the comment on this thread folks - thanks Cheers Richard

Don't mention the comfy chair Or is is don't mention the war? I'm getting all my Python stuff mixed up!

Thanks for all the responses folks. Here's a photo of the record. Bit rough. Had it since late 70s. You can see the matrix is deeply scratched out, but examining it with a hand lens it looks to match the details Dave K gave above. It also looks like UK style with the 4 pronged push out centre and anti slip raised bits at the edge of the label. Just could not fathom the entirely missing label and scratched out matrix - could this be some kind of test pressing - or was it just vandalised? Realised I have another one of this in a picture sleeve somewhere which I think is the French one. Not sure where the heck I have put it though Cheers Richard

Thanks for all the comments guys - interesting stuff. It's a record I like more every time I hear it - bit of a grower. But I agree it's fairly basic and lacking a magic ingredient to set it apart from more sophisticated recordings. Agree with you Dave - it's definitely not the same tune or lyrics as the Satisfactions on Smash. Cheers Richard

Anyone please?

Hi Bob Yes, it's a bit more rocky than the Carol Jones version - but I think they are both quite rocky. I wouldn't say it was horrible Give it a spin and see what you think. Richard

I like it - as long as it is used to pick out notable songs due to them being unusual, underplayed, rare etc. - not for well known stuff you can hear day in day out. Richard

Like that little OKeh logo you sneaked in there Dave

Aaah - now I realised I made a mistake in my description The record I have has the centre pushed out! So big hole, but was a small hole with push-out centre. Does that mean it was definitely the UK version or maybe the foreign release? Dave - what does the matrix look like on your copy please? Is it all scratched out like mine? Cheers Richard

Great, great record Other side of "Born Free" on UK and a foreign release - was it also on French or Spanish or something? I have a 45 here - small (UK style) centre hole. Label completely removed both sides - and looks like it was black originally (Stateside-like) but then I'm not an expert in ripped off labels. Matrix marks appear in only one spot either side of the record and are deeply scratched out. They look machine stamped underneath the scratches. Anyone tell me if this is the UK of a foreign version please - and also hazard a guess why it has no labels? Cheers Richard

Hi everyone I know Jeanette Williams "All Of A Sudden" was bootlegged - reasonably convincingly. Anyone know if it was definitely only the issue that was booted? I have a demo and it seems to match up with the description of an original Of course, being a demo could be conclusive. If real, which I think it is, what is the current value of a demo please? Cheers Richard

Hi everyone Anyone tell me anything about this one please?: Scotty Bray - Problem Child (Tru-Soul) I know it's the same song as Carol Jones on Mutt and that the Gambrells did the vocal accompaniment to it. Bray (Scott or Scotty Bray) was the writer of the Carol Jones recording - but was his the first version or was it Jones'? Both versions are quite rocky - but I like both to be honest. Cheers Richard

Hi folks Anyone tell me anything about Al Hughes and his recording of "Take It Or Leave It" on Scope records out of Detroit please? Lovely looking label. Any info about the history of the record on the rare soul scene - when it was played, who played it etc.? Cheers Richard

Should have grabbed a video on your phone and posted it up mate. Get him next time

I think new vinyl - if done professionally and legitimately in terms of meeting all copyright, IP and other requirements, is a great thing. Some people do prefer vinyl. Me for one - compared to CD, internet streaming etc. The issue I have with bootlegs isn't really that old bootlegs pressed years ago are being re-sold, or recycled - whatever you want to call it. If people sell old bootlegs and counterfeits for high prices, and people pay those prices, well that is a feature of the market. No problem, as long as the items are described accurately (not necessarily with the term "bootleg" - but at least so that anyone who has the information should be able to find out whether an item is authentic using that info). Think about reproduction furniture, paintings, jewellery - and sometimes the need to ask an expert to help you tell the real deal from a fake (just look at the Antiques Roadshow and other programmes). I do not agree with playing bootlegs or counterfeit records to an audience for the reasons I stated above. What I don't like is people pressing up new bootleg stuff now (including counterfeits) - including because of the unprecedented level of access to music there is now through CDs, YouTube etc. I see this as no different to people who make money out of knock-off DVDs, fake casual sportswear, counterfeit alcohol, fake 'branded' watches or handbags. Some who buy them probably know they are fake, other people will not. That's life but that's why I disagree with it. Cheers Richard

Right on bro Richard

Why do you think that Pete? Richard