macca

Now go and have a lie down Michael.

so that would make it a US boot then, cos it wasn't played in the UK till the mid 70s, was it?

But not through a straw though Carms. whatever next!? Lorraine, you asked about your records changing hands. Most people source the original vinyl copies, now 40+ years old, in record stores specialising in vinyl, record fairs, fellow collectors, Ebay, online record dealers etc. If I remember well, there were legitimate UK releases of RCA Pied Piper stuff in the 70s, records that were in demand due to original copies being played at Northern Soul clubs. I'd like to think that some of that revenue dripped back to artists, writers, producers etc. Sadly, the bootleggers have always been lurking, since the very early 70s. Simon Soussan was probably the archbootlegger on this scene, but some British record outlets were also at it. The more expert collectors on here should be able to tell you if your stuff has been/is being booted. Take a look at this thread from 2004 (!) with people hotly debating and disputing Pied Piper output. It's from the old Soul Talk site, a predecessor of Soul Source. Now you'll see why some us are called 'anoraks'. :-) https://www.raresoulf...?showtopic=1226

Perhaps he was having an off day then, Lord knows we all have 'em. Benefit of the doubt etc...

Not all artists have reacted/seen us in this way Lorraine. I can remember Jimmy Ruffin saying some disparaging things about us in a movie Ian Levine made about the Northern Soul phenomenon around 15 years ago. He tried to say that the predilection we had for the obscure rather than the mainstream was some kind attempt to be different from the rest, a kind of clique. He came over as conceited and arrogant, even though he was getting gigs in England long after his star had waned in the USA. His loss etc.

Lorraine, I just wondered if you could throw some light on fellow RCA stable mate Sharon Scott. Her Pied Piper produced 'Could It Be You' has been huge among dancers and collectors alike and is one of my prized records.

Lorraine, there's more than a few of us who'd love to hear those early piano demos!

How odd. As if she needs an introduction!!

Good Lord, awoken to blue skies (it is late Spring) and found Lorraine Chandler aboard Soul Source. All is well with the world! Lorraine, when I feel like blowing the cobwebs and 'educating' my neighbours, I open the living room windows and blast 'em with 'I Can't Hold On', a record I fell in love with, like most of us on here, many, many moons ago. These records are as much a part of our lives as riding a bike for the first time, that first date, walking out of the school gates for the last time etc etc. I'm rambling. A big kiss and hug from Spain, enjoy this fiesta of love! :-) Mac p.s. Give Eddie P his orders too! He's another one that educates the neighbours from time to time...

Soul scene villains, perhaps the thread title should be changed, got to admit it's bit on the arcane side.

Excellent!!

I didn't hear leslie uggams till 77 but had heard the Pointer Sisters in 1975. not wanting to trump in church or anything... macca p.s. I never went to the mecca, which probably explains everything...

A gargantuan leap in the stakes old chap. I would dispute word discussant though, being a sort of Johnny-Come-Lately in linguistic terms, id est, American nonsense. Discussion, in its original vulgar Latin context, was forceful, combative argument, as in row or ding-dong. However, regards the 'debate' we've seen thus far, I much prefer the not-yet -available- in- English- but -soon- will- be term 'contrincant', i.e. opponent. Rolls of the tongue nicely. As far as epistemology is concerned, well we're bound to get bogged down, aren't we? The words scope, range, boundaries and limits will rear their ugly heads, which is quite frustrating, especially when it comes to bestowing meaning on the cultural impact of mid to late 20th century youth culture on bewildered and uncomprehending parents, deeply troubled at their children's obsessively compulsive desire to occupy their contrincants' ends. Other less worrisome traits, such as scarves tied to wrists, half mast white skinners, barathea blazers, tank tops and budgie jackets in the transition period from boffer boy ( I object to the use of the letter V as a double consonant) and suedeheads, to Soul Boy circa 74 (and the subsequent 'sell out' to market forces) will be the subject of a separate debate, which promises to be heated though good natured, I mean we're all Soul brothers, aren't we?

I see we're upping the intellectual debate quality stakes here.

Couldn't agree more Shelly. The football thing was way beyond my comprehension. Never understood the attraction.

Great thread. I think how you viewed the scallies, heavies, thugs etc depended a lot on your age and who you were hanging around with. My earliest recollections are from late 74, aged 14, when, judging by the comments by the older chaps on here, the underground scene had all but disappeared. I remember the heavies as being much older, people in their late twenties perhaps, and not necessarily Soul fans. People would say there's Barry so and so, a right head case, steer well clear. By the early 80s, the all-nighters I attended seemed to be populated by dodgy geezers who were my age, more or less, a lot less scary and definitely small fry compared to the earlier lot. They all wore those green bomber jackets, khaki trousers and played cards all night, trying to look mean. They even accepted cheques and 'pawned' watches in lieu of payment at the next do if you were strapped for cash on the night. Was that a part of their 'gangster' persona, or simply a way of facilitating things for their regular and most loyal customers?

my case is pretty much the same as pete's, though I'd drag 77 on to at least the autumn when st.ives closed. a lot of those 'wigan' sounds (and girlfriend pressure) forced me in to the arms of 'funk' thereafter, though it was short-lived. I decided to go back late 79/early 80 and was relieved to find that things had changed considerably with RS entering his much talked about 'golden age', though by that time London was also beckoning, i.e. beered up at west hamstead. happy days!!

The Mutoid Waste Company. Absolute nutters, like Mad Max on a bum trip. I 'witnessed' them at Glastonbury where I think they'd been engaged by Eavis to take care of refuse collection for the duration of the festival. Truly feral lot. I never did Stonehenge, sadly...

Quite right sir.

As I said previously, at EASC nights they were sold from the cloakroom (Madeleine!) along with the badges and all the other paraphernalia. They were an important stepping stone I reckon. At the Youth Club (we were 14, 15, 16 years old), most people brought pressings to play, unless it was when Smudge, Paul Donnelly or Gary Spencer came along and they would bring the real deal and you'd be awed just looking at them. When I moved on to Manship's typed lists, and started telephoning my order from work, it became seriously addictive... and look at us now, 30 odd years later :-) Funnily enough, I never bought one single record from Soul Bowl, which is strange given its proximity to where I lived.

Update: Ebay resolution process expires after X days after which you have to contact seller which I tried to do via another Ebay private message, which after the time limit for claims doesn't seem to work anyway. Looking at his details 'unkybeebob' (bob fink according to the paypal address) he's no longer a registered user, surprise, surprise. Well it seems I've been stitched, which after nearly ten years on Ebay and it being the first I suppose it's not half bad. Still rankles though...

I'd say blues aficionados are just as if not more obsessive about their music as rare soul /northern soul aficionados. Original 78 records by largely forgotten artists from a by-gone era can command astronomic sums. In addition to that, stacks of books have been written, academic chairs have been specially created at universities and careers have been revived as a result with the protagonists, Son House, Mississippi John Hurt, Skip James playing to white kids on the college circuit. Seminal rock bands in the UK owed their DNA to these men and women, and people who weren't musicians, like Dave Godin, before he progressed to Soul, would spend hours splitting hairs over whether white artists ploughing the same ground could be considered 'authentic' or not. The R&B Police at work. The only difference I can see is that it's not a dance scene, though arguably some Chicago Blues and R&B does swing, Elmore James, T-Bone Walker, Wynonie Harris spring to mind. There are similarities, but as far as I can see, we like to travel to venues, wear strange clothes (some of us) and get blocked and they don't. Or do they? Pill usage was rife at the Brazenose Street and the Flamingo, ostensibly blues hangouts in the beginning and people also wore 'a uniform'. The northern scene deserves heaps of praise for its longevity, ability to recycle itself, introduce new genres, but let's not get carried away.

I often ask myself that question. the illness strikes from time to time and goes back years, a chronic condition they say...

Yes, I paid him by Paypal on December 10th.

It's in the first chapter of the div's 'everything you needed to know about northern soul but were too afraid to ask' manual. Should be a hanging offence.