Kegsy

The Pier certainly overtook Wigan musically at the time. Whether it did in numbers terms is hard to establish without attendance numbers etc. There will be little anecdotal evidence as not many would go to both on the same night, except maybe some of the Dj's. However the very fact that Mike Walker/Russ tried to set up at rival venue, which flopped, speaks volumes to me. You are correct that Wigan did up it's game in the late 70's, but then it needed to.

People did indeed flit between the two, but not until the Wigan crew had left. Mary, who ran the pier, opened the Winter Gardens, due to the numbers attending being too many for the Pier alone.

You've ruined it now. I was waiting for someone to come on and say they had definitely seen this, 45 on U.S. ABC, on the decks at so n so before Cleggy.

Once met NEVER forgotten !.

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Furthermore. As someone has already alluded to, Mike Walker/Russ started a rival all nighter in Cleethorpes, at the Winter Gardens, in direct competition to the Pier. It was a complete flop. Would this be because people preferred the "Cleethorpes sound" to the "Wigan sound" at the time ?, or do you think they went to the Pier because it was half a mile closer to the population centres you quote ? Disclaimer, my geography may not be strictly accurate.

I know I know he just wont shut up sometimes, a bit like Tony Banks used to be.

Well I always somewhere in the early 70's but not always sure where.

A mildly terrifying development IMHO.

Each to their own mate. I will let others comment on the bits of your post I have highlighted.

This thread is becoming truly bleeding silly. We have people who only went in the 70's, maybe even just Wigan, telling people who went in the 80's that there experience's were better and vice versa, and then people, who went in both eras, but left for a while, being classed as "returnees". What a load of utter b*llocks, there are very few, if any, that have attended since the early 70's to the present day without taking time off from the scene. Everybody who knows/loves the scene, its music and all it entails just gets on with it with the rest of the people, who know the score. Whatever "era" they first started. I didn't do much in the eighties but I know loads of people that didn't start until then they still have the same feelings about it all, so what's the big issue ? What is it with some of the f*cking peanut brains on here !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

That's quite right.

I think you still owe me a pint from the Mecca, and don't forget when I got your copy of Landslide back after it had been nicked from your box at Wigan.

Kev I'm quite aware of your contribution, and nobody is trying to diminish it or Richards either. I'm just trying to dispel the myth that the scene was a series of independent clubs that bore little relationship to each other at the time. How many nights did you do the Mecca and then Wigan in those days (73/75)?, most of them I would hazard a guess at , in the same way 100's of us did.

So who do you think was discovering most of the tunes played at Wigan in the early days say 73/75 ?. FFS don't say Dustbin Stanley.

but you don't like Carstairs on Red Coach. Confused of Bradford

Pretty sure if you listed both sides you would get more response. "A Losing Game" is the other side and is much more well known.

I'm not sure what you mean by pivotal, the only one I would call pivotal would be Wigan because it completed altered the scene with the mass influx of people who didn't know the first thing about SOUL music. Lets face it if your introduction to the music was Javells, Nosmo King or Wigan's Chosen Few its hardly a good grounding. Contrary to popular opinion the scene was/is, before and after Wigan, a scene where people went to dance to SOUL music. Contrary to popular opinion the scene was never just about 100mph up-tempo stompers, although when coupled with a soulful vocal they can take some beating. Many records played at Wigan diluted the soul content at the expense of the stomping beat. Cleethorpes Pier managed to get the mix between 60s and 70s releases just about right so it provided a venue where the people who were into SOUL music could go, and not just listen to the 100mph stuff. It combined the best of the Mecca and Wigan so at the time it was pivotal IMHO. Many people at the time were royally pissed off with the Wigan/Mecca war and just ignored both by going to Cleethorpes, which had taken up the gauntlet of the true underground SOUL scene. There are times when I wish Dave Godin hadn't bothered to coin the phrase Northern Soul, because for some people, it put more emphasis on the beat than the soulful content of the music.

The sounds were already 50% new releases by early/mid 75. Here are some playlists. https://colincurtisconnection.blogspot.co.uk/2010/03/blackpool-mecca-revisited.html

The Mecca was almost completely divorced from the northern scene by 75/76 as its music policy had gone totally away from northern soul, it was almost exclusively 70's/jazz funk by then. In the same way, Wigan was playing all sorts of crap by about 75, especially Russ, which also drove people away. In my opinion Russ gets far too much credit on the northern scene, he didn't have much idea to be honest. However. What everybody always seems to forget is that there were plenty of other nighters running at the same time as Wigan. Leeds Central Cleethorpes Pier/Winter Gardens Coalville Tiffs Notts Palais Samanthas Sheffield To name but a few, these never get a mention either. These were where the true aficionados went, stayed true to the roots, and helped carry the scene into the 80's.

The scene has always had people, for who it was a way of life, pre and post Wigan. The true early 70's hard-core devotees didn't attend "clubs occasionally" they went out on a Friday and came home Sunday/Monday, I would suspect there were people who also did this post Wigan. The only time we had "tourists" was at Wigan they would turn up in droves, not having a clue about the music, eating sandwiches, wearing the uniform and falling asleep all over the place, they were a pain in the arse. Don't get me wrong many of the Wigan newcomers did appreciate it all and became lovers of the music, but there were also a lot of divs. This pre/post 1981 pissing completion, that's breaking out on here is stupid, both eras are equally valid in what was an underground youth sub culture. The operative word is "youth" people got older and dropped off the scene due to growing up, getting other commitments etc., younger people came onto the scene and carried it forward. Neither period was better than the other. I sometimes think, if the Mecca had done allnighters, after the Torch shut, Wigan would never have started and the whole scene would have been better off, Wigan was a double edged sword for the scene.

Yes given that the Mecca became big after the Wheel closed in January 1971, and the Torch opened in march 1972. Many of the records that were claimed to be played first at the Torch were originally played at the Cats, Mecca, Up The Junction or even The L'ambassador in Bradford. As for Thumb A Ride, I know I first heard it at Levine's house. Whether he or Colin played it at the Mecca or Torch first who knows a lot of gear has passed under the bridge since then.

Are you serious ? Just because a tune was played at the Mecca first by either of them doesn't mean to say it wasn't also played at the Torch, maybe even on the same night.

Something else that never seems to come across is when we had a few venues running at the same time. Its all made out to be some kind of competition behind rival venues. Whereas the true scene hardcode people would for example, do Va va's, then the Mecca, then Wigan and an all dayer Sunday. This point never seems to get made.

Did Va Va's get a mention ?.