Garethx

From that hotbed of rare soul Lexington Kentucky. A pretty rare 45 that also exists on an even rarer white demo. Never used to do much for me years ago but has really grown on me relatively recently.

A bit much to claim that the "Soul Beat people... breathed life into" it: a shameless bootleg, nothing more nothing less. Agreed that this is the best cut of this around though. I believe the Motown archives show that eleven different versions or mixes exist and that it was knocked back at up to six quality control meetings(!)

That's the one James.

I'm in agreement with pretty much everything written above. I was particularly struck by Paul's post about looking at the record collection and thinking it's a luxury that at times is very easy to get rid of. How many hoof out a collection and never go back though? I think I'm on my third collection at the moment: the first was records you buy when you're starting out: experimental in that your taste isn't truly developed and if you buy any good records it's kind of by accident. The second was that of a more confident collector with a fair bit of disposable income and included a lot of the current big stuff of the day. I think I threw out most of the first one and sold the second during hard times. The current one is largely cheap, good general soul records that I don't really care what others think of. It currently gives me far more pleasure to buy cheap but brilliant 45s on Stax, Fame, Goldwax, Hi, Chess, Wand, Atlantic etc. than to try to chase current cover-ups. Of course all this is complicated if you deejay: that's when things get out of kilter and you can end up losing all sense of perspective about what constitutes: i) a cheap record; ii) a good record.

A really brilliant album: for me one of the best soul albums ever. Everything about it is top notch and Barbara proves herself to be one of the great soul stylists.

Agreed. A tremendous side. I wonder if this was cut at the same session as his Black Rock 45. It sounds like it could have been. These are his finest two records for me.

Incredible record: the best variation on the There Was A Time theme.

I'm sure long term collectors of Jamaican records will confirm that while the Stag copy is certainly not plentiful it wouldn't be classed as ultra-rare. If anything the Doctor Bird copy historically had a higher price because people collect the label.

I tell you the truth, if anyone says to this mountain, "Go, throw yourself into the sea," and does not doubt in his heart but believes that what he says will happen, it will be done to him. Mark 11:23

I'm seriously considering a bid for Tim's armchair.

Indeed Steve. Swaying and singing along has its time and place. That time and place is the Raynscourt in April. Playing these loping crossover tunes in less intimate venues can be fraught with difficulties: it's no accident that the bigger crossover sounds on the Northern scene recently have been more straighforward dancers: faster or funkier or just more 'linear'. See my comments about the Roy Roberts 45 on Sugar on the other thread. When that was first played to me I judged it alongside records like these and thought it was a lot of money for a 45 that I would tire of hearing at home pretty quickly. Hearing it played out and watching people dance to it was an entirely different matter: it then made total sense. I do however think It is important that there are still venues where the 'non-danceable' soul records can be played and enjoyed.

A great group record, but the one thing I would say with regards to playing it in a club is that it's actually quite difficult to dance to; something it has in common with a lot of other Crossover records like Jimmie Ellis on Century City. They're both great soul records and it's nice to hear them loud, but they don't have enough push or variation in the bass playing to truly be classed as dance records. Just a personal opinion. I have another 45 by Bobby Long on Everlast which I assume is the same chap.

Yes it is The Ringleaders. Two acetates featuring the unreleased All Of My Life/Win You Over and the M-Pac 45 Baby What Has Happened/Let's Start Over. The acetates have the sides of the released single on two separate discs. I can't remember which sides of the single back which of the unreleased tracks. Dave Thorley will be able to fill in more of the blanks but it is my understanding that he obtained the two acetates from Soul Bowl and was the first to spin them at Stafford. I believe they were eventually sold back to John Anderson, then owned for over a decade by a collector who had John Manship auction them last year. Don't think it's any secret that they ended up with Butch. The price was a bargain considering what other, far less exclusive and important records have sold for from the same source. Let's face it, these are rarer than Frank Wilson on Soul, but have never had as much hype surrounding them as that exalted release. There was an attempt to bootleg AOML on a look-a-like release. This bootleg emanated from Las Vegas in the early 90s I think. I've never seen one in the flesh, but it has a harmony ballad side which is categorically not The Ringleaders on the reverse. Can't remember if that's also a previously unreleased track as well. Another bootleg of it is as the spurious, non-existent 'Four Temples' on one of the Goldmine Millionaires CDs. Boba on here has met the last surviving member of the group and will be able to offer more information. They were from Michigan, I think, but anyway there's quite a detailed thread about the various twists and turns somewhere on here.

Roy Roberts re-cut it, I think I'm right in saying on a couple of occasions, in the 90s and in the current decade. The more modern versions are quite different, slower and less dance-oriented, with programmed percussion and also on CD only. When the Sugar 45 was played to me before hearing it in a club I was quite nonplussed: I think the word I used was 'moronic'. Add the ingredients of a dancefloor and a pounding sound-system and it's an entirely different proposition. Deservedly one of the biggest spins around at the moment.

Kip Anderson originally released on the Tomorrow label from South Carolina.

Just a guess but I'd have to say it's unlikely. Would love to be proved wrong.

Of course a snob would own the latter two on local labels!

I Need You The Impressions Little Girl Lost The Sheppards Gonna Be A Big Thing The Sapphires Gonna Be A Big Thing The Yum Yums I Done You Wrong Kip Anderson One Little Lie Danny White Could have been any of a dozen Impressions 45s, but I like the one mentioned above particularly today. Can't split either version of "Big Thing" as they're both belters in different ways. The Sheppards would probably be in any list of five harmony dance records I compiled: sheer genius and still severely under-rated I think.

It would be the best record on ebay if everything else was withdrawn from sale. Horses for courses, though, as this is an out and out dance record and was not intended to be heard in the comfort of the living room, or indeed through weedy PC speakers. During the heat of an allnighter it makes a lot more sense, Definitively a black group though.

Did you sell your King George Phil?

Hi Bob I think we're talking at crossed purposes. I said it wasn't an answer record in the strictest sense because it's practically identical: more of a cover version than an answer record. Aside from changing the gender it's pretty much the same lyric throughout both records: if anything the Cynthia record is the answer to the Dynamics. When I think of the classic 'answer' records they take a lyrical theme and turn it around, like "I'll Bring It On Home" answering "Bring It On Home To Me" or "Mama Didn't Lie" answering "That's What Mama Say", or "I'll Save The Last Dance For You" answering The Drifters classic etc.

Don't get too hung up on the condition of this 45: I have a mint, pristine deejay copy which does not sound appreciably better than VG copies I've owned in the past. I wonder if it's worth paying a price premium for mint labels on this one?

Well there you go: Phil's at the sharp end in having sold one recently so his valuation is probably spot-on. So rare really that such prices seem justified whenever it does turn up. Regarding the Cynthia & The Imaginations I don't know if it's strictly true to call the Peachtree 45 an 'answer record' as such. They certainly share the same rhythm track and melody. I find the Blue Rock 45 a bit plodding when compared to the Four Dynamics, which is the version I heard first. As to how it came to be appropriated by the Peachtree artists it might be reasonable to speculate that William Bell came across the track at a time when there was some degree of pollination between Stax and various Detroit production companies/arrangers etc. I was once told in the mists of time that there was another use of the backing track on the Barbara Lynn Atlantic album, but that is not actually the case. The track mentioned (can't remember the title off the top of my head) is kinda similar but not actually the same. For what it's worth the other Four Dynamics 45s on the label are all well worth picking up.

A thousand pounds plus John, I'm afraid. Great record.

One of the best: