Garethx

I won't dismiss or sneer at records simply on account of them being commonplace. I like to think I appreciate music first and foremost, regardless of its monetary value. Dave's post was so good in that he summed up, far better than I ever could, the idea that in order to hear Shrine records in the first place one had to seek them out and for those who were interested the discovery of another good relase on the logo was thrilling, much as in the same way it would have been to unearth more Mirwood, Minit or Ric-Tic in the scene's formative years. We weren't bombarded by Shrine records on the radio, or forcefed the life stories of the artists by the tabloids. Finding out about these records and the men and women behind them has been a fascinating journey and testament to the maturity and enduring appeal of this scene and the more pioneering and inquisitive people on it. If you can't see that perhaps you are in the wrong place. What are we really celebrating in this particular thread? The ability of Berry Gordy to sell R&B to white teenage America? The perseverance or luck of collectors in tracking down records on Shrine and labels like it? No. We are celebrating the music itself. I like a lot of the Shrine label's output. Funnily enough I'm not too keen on JD Bryant itself but one thing is for certain, it's a clearly identifiable body of work. No other productions sound like Shrine productions. Like them or loathe them that is inescapable. Many of the vocalists were beyond competent. Some of the singers were exceptional. A lot of the songwriting is great. I appreciate that Shrine is not to everyone's taste precisely because it has an indelible stamp. If you are one of the dissenters it is your right to be so. But for the sake of interesting forum debate it's sometimes not enough to state "Shrine is crap: Motown made better records."

Agreed. Good luck with your sales. best, gareth

Hi John I only want the ballad side of Those Two. Will you take fifty quid?

That's a fantastic post Dave.

I'm not going to try to quote Chorley, as that doesn't seem to be working, but I'll address his point about the relevance of my stating that there are poor records early on in the Motown and Stax catalogues. These labels were lucky to be successful with one record in that initial run of two dozen or so singles. Without those, in some ways quite unlikely hits we could easily be talking about rare soul labels with a couple dozen of releases each. The hit records gave Motown and Stax breathing space financially and creatively. To compare a label like Motown with a fifty year history to a miniscule independent like Shrine with a handful of releases is folly. I would agree that there are better records on Motown, but there are many phases of Motown; fifties records, sixties records, seventies recordings and so on. Upon being successful they made records From Sea to Shining Sea in every genre of Rhythm and Blues and beyond. Records made by literally thousands of musicians, hundreds of writers and dozens of artists over decades. The Shrine talent pool was smaller and the geographical and financial scope of the operation miniscule in comparison. Okeh and Brunswick are irrelevant for comparison too as the former lived as a niche logo within a massive corporation for most of its life and leased in independent productions. One would have hoped that in over fifty years of operation (basically the whole history of recording African American music until 1970) across the spectrum of genres which that entailed, they could have released more good records than a few guys in Washington DC did over a few months. It is precisely because Shrine failed that it is interesting, in the same way that labels like Tuska continue to intrigue. The reasons for their failure are open to speculation and conjecture, but it is entirely pointless to make comparisons with the powerhouses of soul music on qualitative terms. Banal even. Like I said in my first post on this thread: "Those who knock Shrine as a label misunderstand its appeal I think."

I suppose again it's just a matter of taste but I think the point Bri made, was that if these records were not so rare, their popularity and desirability would not be at such a premium and I remain in agreement with that. Actually THE BLOSSOMS is my favourite but then I have a strange addiction to Girly records so that's no surprise! As for JACKIE LEE, again, I think the common availability of records like that mask their brilliance and in a scene that has elevated rarity to such a level, it's no surprise. Ok, lets try this, Pete does not rate JACKIE LEE in such company, what about something like DARRELL BANKS 'Open the door'? Hypothetically that is discovered tomorrow, only 5 copies exist. It's played at Lifeline, 100 Club and a few other venues and becomes a top spin, within 2 years what's the price label on a record like that? At the end of the day, I think you have to take it on the grounds of comparison with other labels output. You have mentioned a handful of records and in my opinion, Shrine does posess a relative 'handful' of good records compared to the other labels mentioned. I repeat, compared to lables like Motown, Brunswick and Okeh etc, it trails way down the line. (Except on the grounds of rarity!).

I agree with Cliff. The photo being slightly over-exposed makes the label look lighter but you can still tell it's got a gloss seal as opposed to being unsealed, matt paper as per the original.

Sharon Scott. An unissued RCA recording eventually released on the Kent compilation CD "Rare Collectable & Soulful".

As far as I know the original is still rare: still only a handful of copies. Does anyone know any different? I suppose with records on such small labels there is always the chance of finding the entire remaining stock in one hit.

Who was the first to play this covered up Simon? I think this 45 is possibly underpriced these days and due a small revival.

Hard edge to the vinyl as opposed to the labels. Labels moulded on both. Original is flat black vinyl. Reissue is brown see-through plastic when held up to the light with raised edge.

The Boblo 45 is stupendous deep soul.

Gene I don't think that particular Megatone label is connected in any way with the Robert Tanner/Lynchburg label.

Jerry Butler "Ordinary Joe" Mercury Rocky Mizzell & The Sugar Rock Band "Never, Never Girl" Drive King Floyd "I'm For Real" Chimneyville Bobby Bland "Heart Open Up Again" Malaco Betty Everett "La La La La" Fantasy Ann Peebles "Boy I Got To Have You" Hi The Soul Children "We're Getting Too Close" Stax George Scott "I'm A Fool For You" Maple Freddie Hughes "We Got To Keep On" Wand Freddie Scott "I'll Try Again" Columbia Jessie Butler "Let My Love Bring Out The Woman In You" Bound Sound Gwen McCrae "I Found A Love" Cat Carla Thomas "Precious Memories" / "How Can You Throw Our Love Away?" Stax Danny Woods "Rollercoaster" Invictus Circle O' Fire "Glo Love" Stax Jon Lucien "Listen Love" RCA Charles Earland & Odyssey "Shining Bright" Mercury Rita Graham "My Cup Runneth Over" Tangerine Alice Clark "Don't You Care" Mainstream Bobby Story "Let's Do Something Different" Proud Jackie Ross "The World Needs More People Like You" Golden Ear Wilson Pickett "Love Is A Wonderful Thing" Atlantic Dee Dee Warwick "I Ain't Got To Love Nobody Else" Atco Miami "Funk It Up" Drive Nancy Wilson "Come Get To This" Capitol Joe Hicks "Ruby Dean" Enterprise Otis Clay "Nothing To Look Forward To" P-Vine Bobby Womack "I Can't Take It Like A Man" Minit Lou Bond "Why Must Our Eyes..." We Produce Arthur Conley "Keep On Talking" Atco G.C. Cameron "I'm Gonna Give You Respect" Motown Betty Wright "Give Me Back My Man" Alston Lamont Dozier "I Wanna Be With You" ABC Alicia Myers "Here's The Ticket" MCA Curtis Mayfield "Back Against The Wall" Curtom Roy Hamilton "Reach Out For Me" RCA Leon Haywood "Not While I'm Standing Here" Galaxy McFadden & Whitehead "Don't Feel Bad" TSOP Geater Davis "I Love You" House Of Orange Angelo Bond "Man Can't Serve Two Masters" ABC Kim Tolliver "I'm Losing The Feeling" Chess Ollie & The Nightingales "ABCD" Stax The Whispers "Does She Care?" Janus Betty Crutcher "Up For A Let Down" Enterprise Z.Z. Hill "Two Sides To Every Story" United Artists

And so far ahead of its time too.

Thanks Matt. I stand corrected: it's nice to hear the 45 at close quarters, even through weedy PC speakers. I think there are three distinct mixes: this one (lots of echo on the falsetto lead vocal from about half way through); the mix used on the Kent Shrine compilation CD and the mix used on the Horace's vinyl LP which (to my ears) sounds quite different again. Am I right in thinking that the latter was done from the unmixed master tape by Eddie Singleton himself before a copy of the 45 actually resurfaced? Perhaps Ady C. or Andy Rix can enlighten us. I don't have the facility to upload soundfiles but it might be instructive if someone could kindly upload the versions from both 'Capitol Soul Volume 2' on Horace's and the Kent Shrine CD. I must say I prefer the Horace's mix, but this may be a case of it being the first way I heard the tune. Whatever, to me it's one of the single greatest harmony Northern records bar none. Those who knock Shrine as a label misunderstand its appeal I think.

The Youtube clip of "One Gold Piece" above sounds quite different to the 45.

It's in that funny hinterland of being 'old hat to some' but 'unknown to most'. At the right time in a set I'm sure this could be a big northern spin as it's a very high quality soul record. The singing is tremendous.

I paid the price... she paid the price... he paid the price etc. That's the price. Sorry. Couldn't resist it. Are you buying or selling Steve?

The Judy Freeman & Black Rock album is unissued and as far as I know the full version of the song has never been released.

Eddie Holman "Where Have You Been" for me.

Ronnie Miller is cheap to pick up on Polydor and sounds a bit brighter.

Nancy Butts John?

Kent's series of CDs on the Memphis production company XL/Sounds of Memphis, for whom Roberts recorded and had his sides leased to MGM, features fairly comprehensive sleevenotes about him. Apparently he looked quite a bit like Elvis. The earlier records certainly have a kind of southern pop charm about them and the later Sounds of Memphis release "Everything You Always Wanted To Know About Love" was also massive in its day, covered up by Searling at the Casino as Willie Hutch! That was also booted on the yellow Special Products label.

The publishing credit on all three releases in the US is Ramshorn Music BMI. Sometimes this is expressed as Ram's Horn on some of the different presses (there are at least four distinct Jerhart runs: light blue, light green, light green with 'Tomorrow's Hits Today', light green with the Jerhart logo in slab-face capitals etc.) as the pressing run would have been over quite an extended period and quite a wide geographical area, not uncommon with a truly independent release which sold in large quantity.