Garethx

Brilliant news that the Fame vaults are now revealing these hidden gems. Look forward to hearing them all in the coming months. Keep up the good work chaps.

Bennie Turner & The Armorettes?

Possibly a copy in the James Trouble consignment?

No. The Lakeside 45 is a re-recording. It is essentially the same recording (with a slightly different mix) as the Independents version on their second Wand LP. MJ was in The Independents. Completely personal preference but I think the Lakeside version is the best one. Others will disagree with me. On the subject of Phillipines 45s I was astonished a couple of months ago to see a copy of Roy Hamilton's Reach Out For Me on an orange label RCA Victor 45 from that country. Got to be pretty rare.

The Magnificent 7 record is shameful. Not only are the lyrics inane but the lead vocal is laughable. Quite possibly the worst Ersatz Soul voice I can think of. I have to admit I really like the version of "Ooh Baby Baby" on the other side though. Going back to the original post I wonder what the reaction to the Bobby Jason 45 would be these days if it were a new discovery? Tar and feathers would be called for surely. I know people will respond with the old 'but it's a dancer' line, but come on, it's just a piece of crud. I don't really have a problem with pop being played in the name of Northern Soul: some of them, like Sue Lynn, Dana Valery and Joannie Somers are pop masterpieces, but the Bobby Jason record fails on practically every level on which a piece of music can be judged. Unless you're a masochist.

Came out on York records in the States. The group is rumoured to feature Brian Wilson, Darlene Love with the rest of the Blossoms, Jack Nietzsche and others. A sort of Spector-sound version of the standard. I don't know much about UK releases but think this sometimes fetches decent money on Stateside among Spector collectors.

Think Paul is correct. Surely only Mo-Do and Mo-Do reissue?

It is Barry, but in the loosest sense: they've taken the refrain and housed it up in the style of the day.

Should point out that the link Barry has provided has nothing to do with the Boblo release: it's a Danny Rampling UK house job from 1990. The Boblo thing is from the early 1970s. Other Boblo records I have are distributed by either Starday/King with the later ones distributed through IRDA. This has Bobby Smith's address on the label. I've not seen much mention of it before and wonder if there are many other copies in collections.

I think they're the same version. The UA sounds better to me, maybe because many of the PM copies I've heard have been pretty trashed. The UA is on styrene but this often maligned material can sometimes sound very good.

This popped through the letterbox this morning: the Boblo release. Interestingly, given the subject matter of the song it has what appears to be blood-staining to the label. The most interesting thing about it however is that it's a completely different version to either the Aquarius or MGM versions of the song. I can't do soundclips at the moment, but the differences are quite marked: no screeching kids, no strings, no piano. Bigger sounding drums, wah-wah guitar and overall ever so slightly faster than any version I've heard before: so really like that kind of imagined Tighten Up remix mentioned above. It's got a few pops and clicks but overall it's in pretty good nick.

I think that's all true, to be honest.

Chalky's right. I'm not the biggest fan of multi-roomed venues as I think if you give people the opportunity to wander about they will, but if there are smaller rooms this is a good use for them. It allows the deejays to maybe try different types of records that wouldn't be appreciated in the bigger room for what ever reason: tempo or unfamiliarity and so on. I think the scene's moved on form a time when people would dance en masse to complete sets of records they didn't know and that's probably been the case for fifteen years or so. It takes an age to break a new record anyway now, whereas in the 70s it could be done in the course of a weekend.

That's a bit of a misrepresentation isn't it and maybe the attitude Paul hints at in his original post. I played in that room last month and aside from a couple of things did not play 'cheap' records. George's spots feature a lot of records which the so-called 'big boys' are still chasing. Among other things he played Richard Marks on Tuska which I don't think you could buy for well over a grand these days without being very lucky. Paul Sadot's spots don't feature a lot of cheap records either. Price tags are immaterial anyway but I just wanted to clear up the idea that the third room at Radcliffe is manned by divs playing five quid records. In the final analysis the room and the format of the niter as a whole is pretty much spot on. The main room has a large dancefloor and the job of the deejays there is to fill it by any means necessary. An hour of unknowns or obscurities wouldn't work there.

'Tis a cheapy Rob. Best pressing quality is on the French Vogue issue. Great record which deserves to be heard in rare soul rooms. I suspect it was always considered too cheap to play.

Following on from The Independents I don't know if anyone's mentioned Maurice Jackson on Lakeside or Candlelite yet: an enduring Crossover classic. Along with Bobby Reed on Bell it was one of the very first records to get me into this style. Maybe not quite in the 'ultimate' category but other things that I don't think have been mentioned yet are Sharon McMahan "Get Out Of My Life" on Columbia, Gemini "Unchanging Love" on Rosa and The Perfections "Leaning Post" on Drive. I think the latter two are yet to have their day.

There used to be a Youtube clip of Paul Burton singing over the record at a party in the States which appears to have been taken down. I was always led to believe he was a white guy, but the clip showed him to be a very light-skinned black man. Interestingly the clip was from the 80s: years after the record was made and about a decade before it became popular as a collectors record here. Anglo American used to have quantity of this and it was on the computerised part of their list at a very low price. As often seems to be the case that was probably the entire stock which existed at the time and once they've been absorbed into collections it's actually turned out to be relatively difficult to track down.

You're not alone John. Just as I think of 'Tighten Up' as the bedrock of one whole slab of records with the Crossover sound, I think the Chicago midtempo ballads with a beat, full orchestration etc. are another. Johnny Moore was at the centre of creating that whole type of record. Another hugely influential record in all of this was Tyrone Davis "Can I Change My Mind", which spawned literally hundreds of soundalike records from all over the states.

The role of the TSU Toronadoes in all of this shouldn't be under-estimated. The Tighten Up rhythm is a cornerstone of much Crossover and is a key factor in the transition between the sound of typical mid-sixties soul and what was to come in the 70s. Think of the amount of great records which owe a debt to that patented bass, drums, guitar interaction: Benny Harper, Frederick Hymes, Natural 4, Carmelita and on and on, quite apart from the great records which the Toronadoes would have actually played on for Ovide and other labels in their own right. I never tire of hearing their stuff because it's so musical. There's always something in there that sounds fresh and exciting.

Yes. Sticking my neck out I'd say it's probably the best double-sided independent soul record ever made. By anyone. Ever.

Two that I don't think have been mentioned so far but are all-time gems are Herman Hitson on Sweet Rose and Merv Murphy on Simmons.

edit.

I was always under the impression that Willie Wright's version pre-dated the Back To The World cut by quite a few years. It's only a theory but I wonder if Curtis Mayfield didn't specifically write the song for him. Finally getting to see a copy of the 45 was instructive too, featuring a Boston address and an incorrect telephone number with the area code scratched out and corrected in biro. I wonder if all of the pitifully few copies which survive are like this. Whatever genre it's classed in this is one of the greatest soul records of all to me.

Most definitely I would say.

Hopefully this thread will not be a place for controversy for controversy's sake John. Debate is welcomed. Remember, there are no wrong answers, but you will have to choose between Billy Kent and Chuck Ray, I'm afraid. There can only be one ultimate.