Garethx

Also look out for it on the Reid label. Same number (2743) as the Deep City release.

While Alicia Myers is very easy to find on UK 45 it's appreciably more difficult on the first US 45. It was not released on a 45 first time around and snuck out as the reverse of the US 45 of 'Here's The Ticket' from the 'I Fooled You This Time' LP. It was then subsequently released as the US b-side to "You Get The Best From Me" from the Appreciation album a couple of years later. It's also on the reverse of the US 12" of YGTBFM. Still shouldn't be expensive in any way: under ten quid probably. 'Here's The Ticket' itself is a wonderful record too. What a great production sound her records had. I've stated here before that this was probably the last stand of real Detroit Soul on a major label.

Real name Frank Amodeo, from Long Island. Eventually became the lead singer in a latter incarnation of The Reflections.

You're not wrong Sean. A wonderful talent.

'Black Lady' copies exist with "Cooking With Nixon" as well as "All I Need" so I guess it's not as simple as saying 'Lady' copies are issues and 'Black Lady' copies are demos. A good record, and maybe one of the most convincing soundalikes of Motown from a non-Motown label: it's almost like a Temptations out-take. "Cooking With Nixon" is the instrumental to something. Can someone remind me what the vocal is?

Lewise Bethune.

With many thanks to diamondjim here is the scan of the pink label copy of Lee Harris: No mention of Marva Whitney. As I speculated in the post above it seems the story about label removal was to include Marva Whitney's name rather than remove it. If anyone owns the yellow label copy as posted above by Sebastian it would be interesting to find out if it is simply a re-labelled copy of the 1967 ZTSC stock or a complete re-press with a different b-side. It might even be a re-recording of "I've Got To Have Somebody's Love." Still some questions to answer.

Billy Jackson, writer of "If That's What You Wanted" and many other Philly soul greats?

^ Wow. Never seen that release before Sebastian. It looks like the labels have been stuck on afterward, rather than at the time of pressing. Could it be that the story about the original labels being soaked off is slightly wrong and that the reason for re-labelling was to add a Marva Whitney credit, rather than remove one. It would be great if diamondjim could scan his pink-labelled ZTSC copy. This would make more sense of the timeline. Marva and Ellis seem to have been together after her career at King, T-Neck etc. rather than before it.

Foolishly I didn't save a scan but It definitely exists. Here's the original soul-source link to the (now missing) auction: To add more mystery the Lee Harris ballad is also listed on a later number and with a different b-side: 1114 Lee Harris "Everybody Groove With A New Bag/ I've Got To Have Somebody" The 'blank' is 107/ 8 Lee Harris "Skate Boogaloo And Karate Too/ I've Got To Have Somebody's Love" (this matches the production log at Columbia Custom where the 45 was pressed as ZTSC 126177-1A / ZTSC 126178-1A in July 1967) I have no idea whether "Groove" and "Skate" are the same track. Anyone know for sure? The labels were reportedly removed because it was the one record on the label to feature the specific credit "Produced by Marva Whitney". Label owner Ellis Taylor reportedly soaked the labels himself after his divorce from Ms. Whitney. Whether it was at her insistence or under his own steam is unclear. The timescale for all this is a bit weird to say the least. The height of Marva Whitney's fame on King records would have been 1968-71. By the early 70s Taylor was still releasing MW product on Forte (as Marva W. Taylor and the MWT Express on different 45s) or leasing her material to other labels (Marva's version of "Don't Let Our Love Fade Away" on Excello). "Daddy Don't Know About Sugar Bear" on Forte sounds like a much older recording and shares the same backing as Lee Harris's other Forte 45, Whatever You Do, Do It Good" (Forte 1111). A collector in Kansas City named Jim Kelly was pointed in the direction of the remaining Forte stock by Mr Taylor's grand-daughter a few years ago. In total a sealed container in her yard contained around three and a half thousand records, around 300 of which were reportedly the blank of the Lee Harris 45. As to a value for a labelled copy; who knows? I don't think the boogaloo side is particularly in-demand, but as I said above the downbeat track is really good in my opinion.

What a great record. Some labelled copies have escaped.

For a national label I don't think it's that unusual Ged. Both these demos look legitimate to me, Monarch for the West Coast, Bell (?) for the rest of the country. I've only seen the issue on the styrene Monarch press though, plus the Middle Eastern one that went through ebay a few months ago.

I think this is quite a common theme with a few of the early Kent albums. Off the top of my head Garland Green's "Ain't That Good Enough", Maxine Brown's "Let Me Give You My Loving" and others (possibly Johnny Maestro on Scepter) are all quite different from the released 45s. When requesting tapes from often long defunct record companies I'm guessing it was often pot luck as to which version turned up. Written records of recording sessions and notes in the archives may have been incomplete or missing entirely. Remember that these were all in the relatively early days of creating exhaustive re-issues of vintage soul music. Just getting anything re-issued from mater tape would have been a thrill and it would have been a bit further down the line that the idea of specifically looking for alternative versions (and indeed completely unfamiliar material) gained currency. All of the Bobby Bland, GG and MB versions mentioned happen to be brilliant so in these cases it was a happy accident. Maybe Ady will let us know about a few horror stories where this was not always the case.

Happy belated Birthday Mr. S.

That thread was about the venues of the 80s and is completely irrelevant to this topic. Dredging it up would dereail this thread horribly so please don't. Russ was asking which, if any, 80s records could become popular niter sounds today. Records made in the 1980s. While there are many such as Collins & Collins, Timeless Legend and so on which have already crossed over to the northern allnighter scene they did so when they were fresh-sounding and practically new releases. The last few years have seen practically no 80s recorded soul records become big 'niter sounds with the exception of long-standing rarities like King Moses, Doc Peabody and Tolbert, which collectors were chasing for years anyway. Trophy records like those tend to get played out by deejays whenever acquired, regardless of their vintage. Lots of people have mentioned records they themselves bought and listened to in the 80s. I did that and then edited the list out because I didn't feel upon reflection that it answered the question. I just can't see many the run-of-the-mill Soul Bowl-listed indies ever becoming 'rare soul' in a club context again, no matter how good some of them are as records. I guess the kind of thing Russ was looking for were tips on obscurities and rarities which were not generally known at the time of their release, but which could now become popular if played by the right deejay. PJ City as mentioned by Demotron is a really good example and there must be at least a few dozen more. Problem is that those who would possess such knowledge are generally unwilling to share it on a public forum and who can blame them? I'm sure Simon Murray, Karl Marthon and others have more than a few such sounds already under wraps and primed to take club dancefloors by storm.

Brothers of Soul every time for me I'm afraid.

I think the classic Wall Of Sound in its uptempo manifestation doesn't work well in a Northern Soul context because it's generally not based on Gospel / R&B rhythms and doesn't swing like soul music should. The Obrey Wilson 45s on Liberty are collected by Spector fans (despite not having PS's name on them) and were an attempt to copy the Sam Cooke hits of the day. Wilson was a tremendous vocalist but wasn't really heard at anything like his gospel best until well into the 1970s. The ballads can fit well into the Big City Soul idea but in the main Spector didn't favour gospel-type lead voices and didn't let the voice dominate the track in the way that R&B producers tended to. There are some great WOS copies which have received plays, but these are not strictly speaking Spector records. Clydie King's "Missing My Baby" on Imperial and Malcolm Hayes "It's Not Easy" on Liberty are a couple of things which spring to mind. Spector thought enough of Jerry Riopelle's work on another Clydie King 45 "The Thrill Is Gone" / "If You Were a Man" to offer him a job as a staff writer and producer at Philles Records.

I might break my self-imposed ban on live acts for JP Ivor.

There are a few on Popsike priced at well below £500.

Hi Warren Correct label is Free. Good luck in your search.

JM has one with WOL for £75 on his site currently. An unusual record but a pretty soulful one. I like it but I can see why others maybe wouldn't. The demo isn't seen as much as the issue.

The mix on the UK copy is very flat compared to the US 45. I swapped a UK demo for a US demo and couldn't believe the difference. I'm sure it was the lack of dynamics in the pressing of the UK copy which held it back from being hammered consistently on Radio 1 (I'm told it was played a few times) and crossing over to the pop charts.

Maurice: that's it. Brilliant info Dave. Thanks for clearing up a few gaps in my memory. He was a bit of a character and seemed to wear a sheepskin coat all year long.

Totally different records to my ears at least.

I'm afraid I'm guilty of not really buying any 80s soul since the 1980s themselves. All the way through until about 88-9 I used to buy at least a couple of new releases every week from Soul Bowl, Record Corner and later Voices. From about that point on either the quality dropped or I just became jaded with the sound. However I would love to hear more rare 80s that I haven't heard before. The problem is where to hear it. I've heard Butch play a couple of amazing 80s-sounding things at his non-allnighter gigs in the last few years and I'm sure it's an under-tapped resource of good soul music. I'm afraid I don't personally have the courage to buy obscure 80s things without having heard them first.