Garethx

If you dig too deep into any named musical gene you're going to hit a point where the quality level eventually drops off the cliff face. I happen to love "Pow Wow" by Manny Corchado and consider it to be one of the greatest and most charismatic dance records ever made, but an hour long set of 'authentic' 1960s Boogaloo on ever more obscure labels by more and more marginal artists might just drive me to slash my wrists. I sometimes wonder if we aren't all too far into obscure records to wake up and smell the coffee: a lot of them, in whatever sub-genre we might favour at a particular point in time, are just not that great, for any number of reasons. A lot of soul music never rose above the level of the generic or the formulaic. Much of it was made speculatively regardless of whether those involved had any real talent. A lot of people will doubtless disagree with me and you are free to do so! I suppose the part of soul that I used to favour as a collector was deep soul. Outside of about a hundred key titles the quality goes out the window and you eventually reach a point where it becomes difficult to find any semblance of true quality in much of what lies beyond the 'great' records. I eventually began to question whether it was financially worthwhile to continue to mine the depths of the terminally amateurish, the slap-dash and the derivative. I think it's a similar story with funky-soul, beat ballads, crossover, etc. and that includes so-called 'classic' Northern Soul of the Wigan/Torch/Mecca variety.

A version of this debate was going on thirty years ago when I first started going out. Then it was between varying combinations of Modern fans, Oldies fans, 60s Newies fans and probably a few more factions besides. Each individual probably has their own unique vision of what constitutes the ideal Northern Soul record but there really never has been a definitive answer to that question. Maybe that's what has contributed to the scene's longevity. There is no wrong answer.

This topic has reared its head for five years on here. Bottom line is there are only two types of music: not even good versus bad, just those you like and those you don't. I look at the debate from a far more clear-headed stance than I used to. You can't separate records into genres and declare one to be superior to another: you've got to judge each piece of music on its merits. A lot of people appear to be claiming that Northern Soul is a genre when every compelling piece of evidence suggests this is nonsense. Musical fashion has always played a big part and the sound has always evolved, expanded and then sometimes contracted. NS cannot be a single musical genre if it contains Kurt Harris on Diamond on one hand and Burning Desire on Charisma Sound on the other. Both have been played and danced to at NS nights and collected on vinyl by NS punters. Funk records have been played and collected on the scene for over thirty-five years now. Tell me The Crow or Frankie 'Love Man' Crocker or The Delreys Inc. and so on aren't funk or funky. They are and they were massive records in their day and are still avidly collected now, both by time-served veterans and what few young converts come along. The funkier records seem to have become part of the flavour of the last few years again. If they get played at Northern Soul venues they become 'Northern Soul' just the same as Popcorn records like Sam Fletcher and Kell Osborne became Northern Soul in the 1980s once they got scene spins. The window of the classic Mirwood / Soul Town / Okeh stomper was only a very brief one in NS's overall 'journey' to use a horrible reality TV phrase. Yes, it is a lot of peoples' favourite flavour of NS, but to claim it is the only flavour is historically incorrect. Curtis and Levine found or broke as much of that stuff as any men alive yet they moved on from it in quite a short period of time. As time moves on a few of these newer funky spins will stick around to get something approaching oldie or classic status. Hopefully the better ones, but that isn't always the case: a load of the classic Mecca / Torch Cats 60s oldies are absolutely sh*te records too if you ask me, as are many of the Stafford / Leicester / 100 Club sounds as well if we're being brutally honest. Many of these new funk records are indeed poor, but some are absolute gems and it becomes hard to suppress surprise when some can castigate Fred Williams for lacking 'soul' when some of the touchstones of their 'soul scene' were made by Beverly Ann Bremers, Paul Anka, Little Peggy March or Joanie Sommers. To anyone in the real world that particular leap in logic takes a lot of explaining. The best deejays can generally gauge which records in a new style might have the legs to eventually possess longevity. My problem with any influx of an unfamiliar sound is when bandwagon jumpers change their sets wholesale to a sound they have no real feel for or depth of interest in collecting. Happened when NYC disco came in and when Popcorn became acceptable. Also happened when Crossover became flavour of the Month and then 50s R&B. Once funk stuff was being played by some of the up-front niter deejays it seemed a logical conclusion to invite long-term funk collectors like George to spin at 'Soul' venues. Whether he found it valuable is something you'd have to ask him. I know he used to post here but doesn't seem to any more. I like George as a deejay and have heard him play some phenomenal examples of black music: anyone with more than a passing interest in collecting vintage Black American vinyl can't fail to be knocked out with the depth and breadth of his knowledge and taste. Whether the so-called Northen Soul Scene of 2012 is the right place for him is debatable however. The big niters appear more oldie-based than ever before. This is not a dig at the people who run them or those who attend. What 'Newies' niters there are seem to be finding it tough as regular and sustainable venues. Again not a dig at those responsible for running them either. While the bigger allnighters might have issues with the funkier soul sound it can sound great in bars without huge dance floors. A proliferation in local soul nights in pubs and bars are doing OK and some of the records mentioned above and others like Willie Joe "Funny Thing" or Bethea The Maskman "Ghetto Love" etc. sound great in that particular context. I remember when Trouble started Soul Revolution and one of the punters complained to Keb (who was playing records there) about things like drinking on the dancefloor, funk music, non-scene punters and a seemingly endless litany of gripes. In his own irascible way Keb just said "Go back to your dusty ballrooms". I don't have to spell out what he meant. Playing any strand or flavour of unknown vintage soul music in a ballroom designed for 500 to 1000 people is really hard these days. I bet if the cream of the current crop of deejays unleashed the last remaining unknown Torch styled stompers (if such a thing still existed) in a couple of sets on the current UK niter scene they would be met with a degree of indifference. Some people have never accepted The Mello Souls yet. Funk isn't killing the allnighter scene, it's strangling itself just by its very nature. It wasn't supposed to last forever and as many punters lurch towards advanced middle age it's facing its death throes.

Yellow copies credited to 'Anne' as opposed to 'Ann' on the black copies. I'm afraid I can't answer the question of which was the first variant but I've always assumed both were legitimate presses. The first copies I ever saw were yellow and didn't see a black one for a long time but that doesn't necessarily mean anything either way as once I had a copy (mid 1980s) I didn't go looking for any more. Ann/Anne was the wife of Marvin Jenkins of "I've Got The Blues" fame on Palomar. Marvin was the musical director of Della Reese's touring band for years.

Yes. Wonder if it linked with the Hemisphere logo which Oscar Wright appeared on, another Richmond label. Strangely enough just like the Sebastian Williams on Sound of Soul also above.

Having said that the publishing credit is Hemisphere Music, the same as "Silent Treatment", so I'm completely wrong!

Not so sure that this Blue Star logo is related to the Arin Demain one. The address is a west coast one but the credits on this and the other Jimmy Wonderful record suggest Richmond, Virginia connections. Wonder if Keb ever played the other side, "Ain't Nothin' Shakin'", which went pretty big for Ady at the 100 Club five or so years later.

Luckey is now on Facebook and would presumably love to hear from his fans all over the world.

There are some exhaustive threads on Atlantic's mastering and pressing practices on the Steve Hoffman forum. Some of the expertise there, particularly from William Brown, is mind-blowing.

That Charmels of John's is pressed at ARP in Michigan. One of the few Volt titles pressed there.

The Wand single is brilliant.

That auction result for JT Parker must be some sort of mistake surely. It will be interesting to see if the winning bidder actually goes through with the deal. For what it's worth I personally think it's a really great early soul record and am nonplussed to see people dismiss it so readily.

I think John's referring to JD Hall with regards to the dip on the repress.

Think Dave Turner posted a couple of great pics of the group on a thread here last summer. The writer of Destination Unknown (and possibly a group member), Sam Crumity used to be on Facebook, listed as still living in southern Florida.

I think Marc is referring to John & The Weirdest.

Good opportunity to get a mint vinyl copy of Darrell Banks ITOWLY: seldom seen in anything but well-used condition.

The see-through vinyl thing is a red-herring: I don't believe copies like that exist. It's an example of wires getting crossed and rumours being perpetuated through internet message boards. The record with the see-through plastic 'second press' of a rare original is Glenda McLeod.

Many thanks. That's very likely the right chap.

Two I'd like to know about who, as far as I know, only made one great 45 each: Bobby Wilburn and Faye Crawford.

Are you buying or selling Tony? I'd say the price on Collectors Frenzy is about right. Bear in mind that one has a drill hole and WOL. A mint copy should be around £200.

The third demo:

The genuine Monarch pressed WDJ copy doesn't have a Bashie logo, just "Bashie Records" with "The Sound of Chicago" in smaller plain type above the word Bashie.

There are also demos and issues pressed by Atlantic at Plastic Products, which should have master number BA-16631 PL.

The plain green label styrene is the mid '70s bootleg. There is a green label styrene issue which is genuine but has the multi-coloured ring to the outer of the label. The green label boot uses basically the wrong master number: BA-16631 SP. This number corresponds to the Specialty pressed version of the record, which should be on vinyl. The genuine styrene issue should be BA-16631 MO, denoting that it was pressed by Atlantic at Monarch.

That's for passing this on Sebastian.