Garethx

Is there another use of the "Peace Of Mind" backing track by any other release?

Hemisphere styrene (pressed at Shelley) sounds great. West coast Fairmount (pressed at Monarch) sounds quieter and less dynamic. The Fairmount vinyl copies (striped labels) also sound pretty good. Don't discount the Hemisphere copy just 'cos it's styrene.

Regarding the typeface for the word "Charisma": that would have been around at least since before WWII as a commercially available font, so trying to date the release by this method is an inexact science. Chess owned the Midwest pressing plant and possibly even the printshops / typesetters who produced the artwork for this release. The fact that the typesetters used a face not normally utilised on other Chess product for the 'Charisma logo' was probably to emphasise the 'one-off' nature of the release. I'm leaning towards the theory it was a vanity / favour project for Jones, much like the 'Bunky' release of Nolan Chance discussed in detail months ago. Spector (the owner of Tuff) had a relationship with Chess as A&R head of Argo (their Jazz label) before it became known as Cadet. It was where he met saxophonist Benny Golson, who gets the arranger credit on the various Bobby Treetop uses of the backing track.

Pressed at one of the Chess factories by the look of the typefaces for artist / title / credits. Chess manufactured and distributed Tuff records at this point. If it has a TM scratched in the runout it means it was mastered at Chesses' Ter-Mar Studios. E. Rodney Jones was employed at WVON at the time, a radio station owned by the Chess brothers. Maybe they pressed a small run of this for Jones to hand out as a promotional tool, with the label name being a reference to his on-air style.

There is a US 4 track EP of Jon Lucien with picture sleeve. I've only ever seen promo copies and don't know if it was ever issued as such. Catalogue number is DJE0-0038.

I think the guitar playing on that record is absolutely beautiful and a long way away from being intrusive. As you say Pete: different strokes!

This topic is supposed to be about 'unknowns'. The JT Cater is a known record. Your assertion that "your average northern souler who went to Wigan or Stafford would not know it" is bonkers. Who in their right mind would flag up a genuinely unknown 'scene-worthy' record on this thread?

Your post is incorrect, I'm afraid. The Willie & West album is not IN ANY SENSE a reissue. The alternate version of "Get Away" does indeed feature on the rare Wille & Magnificents album "Very Soulful" but that was released on All Platinum AFTER the Willie & West album.

Again, the JT Carter record has been collected for about twenty five years. This is the b-side of Closer To Your Heart and is probably even worse.

The Willie & West hardly falls into the unknown category. Played by Levine at the Mecca and been a collected album ever since. I'm speculating but guess that dozens if not hundreds of copies have passed through the UK soul scene in the last couple of decades. I'm also not sure that the Willie & Mighty Magnificents version is the original one as you claim. Some Willie and West tracks were re-issued with some Mighty Magnificents tracks on a Japanese P-Vine album in about 1980. The version of GAFMG is, if I remember, slightly different.

I have a nice copy if you still need this and want to make an offer.

Some interesting background here courtesy of John Ridley. https://www.sirshambling.com/artists_2012/J/eddie_jones/index.php

Mr Soul is a nice enough record. I don't know if I'd pay the money for one today but it definitely had allnighter magic sprinkled over it for a long time. The other two records are titans and among the best and most soulful sides ever played if you ask me. What aspect of the Masqueraders turns you off so much? It's got everything and is one of the Northern records with the most absolutely mind-blowing vocal performances from lead and group. The arrangement is pin sharp, dynamic, there are breaks and the song is a good one, self-penned by a great group. I've said on here before that if Lou Pride were discovered today people would be fighting each other in the streets to own a copy. A powerful, truly soulful and unique sounding record by a great artist.

I used to think badly of George Lemons but my opinion of the record has changed, funnily enough it may be down to membership on here. Everything Dave Moore says about it is probably technically true, yet its very faults conspire to create something beyond the simple sum of its parts. The key change in the middle of the record (accompanied by the line "You have heard me talk about... about the distant skies") is actually very musical: far away and above a run of the mill, generic R&B (in the widest sense of the word) record. Yes, George Lemons was not the greatest singer in the world, but if vocal quality were the sole qualifying criteria for a Northern Soul smash we wouldn't have too much to talk about. Gordon Russell is correct in identifying the rough, raw street level appeal of much of this music as a major part of its attraction. What's the antidote: "Ain't No Mountain High Enough" twelve times a night?

To my ears it is a better record than "Love You Baby" in practically every department. That's not to say LYB is a poor disc, it's great too. The only thing that's ever held "Gone" back is a shortage of copies.

If the thread on over-rated records is to be believed this is no worse than Eddie Parker, The Del Larks or The Professionals.

I don't think it's a case of standards starting to slip, certainly not in the mid-late 70s period you seem to be referring to; I think it's more a case of tastes changing and maturing. "I'm Gone" has a darker, harsher sound than many records which were big earlier in the scene's history. One thing to bear in mind always is how young a lot of the punters would have been in the very early 70s. By the time Wigan was closing everyone was nearly a decade older and peoples' tastes tend to change over time. Maybe that's what a lot of this topic is about. Sometimes I'm sure we all shudder at our own youthful tastes. I think a lot of what happened in Northern history was that the most instant or hook-laden records became ingrained in the popular conscience first. The less obvious or 'deeper' sounds got overlooked in favour of the very catchy early on in that history. I think it's a mistake to say the quality slipped or dropped off. Of course it's tapered off over time, that's natural over a forty five year period of looking for something which is essentially finite. The odd great record is still getting found. It's just much harder these days.

Can we have an un-like button? Everything about this post is wrong. Whenever this topic comes around it's practically always the iconic records that get pot shots taken at them. Why not the vast number of mediocre filler records everyone's got in their collections bought in the expectation they'd be decent Northern? 90% of the records mentioned in this topic are actually great records. It's impossible to like them all but the ire is often misdirected because of a record's price tag, reputation or notoriety. George Pepp? Spellbinding. Frankie & Johnny? Magical. George Lemons? Strangely fascinating. I could go on. Records which piss me off are the barrel-scrapings which often get touted on sales threads as being 'so right for now' etc. because they at last fit into a currently in-vogue sound or approach. I wouldn't mind if they were priced realistically but often they aren't.

The styrene copy is a Bestway pressing. The vinyl copy looks like it was pressed at one of the RCA plants. I also think the styrene issue is real.

Kris beat me to it.

Just a cursory look at the web reveals both stock and dj copies on a styrene pressing (buff labels) and a white label vinyl promo. I have other Josie singles where the dj copy is not a white demo. Jay Dee Bryant "You Don't Know" on a styrene pressing springs to mind.

Ray Charles' reading of ER is undoubtedly soulful but Aretha's leaves me cold unfortunately. I think Paul McCartney, like Laura Nyro, falls into the 'un-coverable' category. Such skilled songwriters that it was natural for others to want to attempt their songs, but no-one could really take their material to the places they themselves could.

That's a very good post Tony and your example of The Isleys is a really good one. But for every Isleys, who clearly had a feel for this type of material and where they themselves could take it, there are dozens of examples where the reverse seems true. Artists and arrangers had zero feel for the songs and often appeared just plain puzzled by the material. I think Pickett's rock covers largely fall into this trap and that's despite my respect for his masterful voice and the skills of the musicians at Fame or American or wherever these were cut. A soul version of a rock hit I actually enjoy is Charles Mann's "Do It Again", where it's turned into a Philly dance romp. Not one thousandth as good as Steely Dan's original though.

I don't know if any of the soul versions of 'rock classics' work to be honest and wonder what the intent behind them was: a muddle-headed idea to cover all bases or garner radio play to as wide an audience as possible. A lot of it was just plain and simple filler. Whatever it was it rarely created great art. There are possible exceptions: Merry Clayton's "Gimme Shelter" definitely works, but does it top The Stones? I don't know. I can see why gospel-trained singers might want to have a go at "The Weight" as a gospel feel was at the heart of the original intention of the record, but without The Band's actual performance it just doesn't work.

Anyone know anything about Charles & The Esquires on Salem?