Garethx

Then why mention what's happening now at all?

Hopefully one positive thing is that the good records featured sounded absolutely great. Imagine hearing the Gloria Jones version of "Tainted Love" for the first time if you had only been familiar with the cover versions. The downside to that is the inclusion of Wigan's Ovation or Tony Blackburn giving the impression that these had anything to do with the real scene. Unnecessary and unforgivable. A stitch-up again. The cod-musicology bit of it was frustrating. Emphasis on the 4/4 thing making Northern Soul fans sound like retards who couldn't accept any more complex music. There's a huge diversity in the music and always has been. If there hadn't have been the scene would have burned out in under three years. I wondered if my criticism of this yesterday was too harsh, but on reflection it wasn't. There have now been so many of these shows that there should be simply no excuse in falling into the same old traps. It's almost as if this was a pastiche of other Northern Soul documentaries.

Those perceptions only came from people who'd jacked it in. The truth.

Don't agree with the 1980s being 'difficult to convey' at all. A mention that the scene 'went underground' at Stafford, Clifton Hall, 100 Club and tons of other venues would have taken less than a minute. Plus there's actual footage from Stafford, Tony's and other places!

Nick's points above are all spot on. This strand on BBC4 has generally been really good. The Gene Clark documentary was fantastic for example.

People are giving this too easy a ride. It was poor on pretty much every level. A good historical documentary should ask not only what happened but why. It lacked even the personal perspective of Paul Mason's programme. You never really got the impression that any of this meant anything to anyone involved and that's criminal. That's not to slate those scene figures who took part as talking heads, as I understand once the interviews are done so much is down to the editing process. They were all pretty good. The interventions of the 'celebs' were embarrassing. Norman Jay and Waterman were winging it so much it made my blood boil. The Tony Blackburn contributions were irrelevant. I can't believe that you have to feature these people in order to get the thing commissioned. Norman Jay's had nearly 40 years' worth of opportunity to get involved in the scene since his mythic visit to Wigan yet I've never seen him anywhere. Why does he get approached for these things? The production team talked to me because of the book, but once I made it clear I didn't want to be on camera they weren't interested. The programme makers just think about 'content' in terms of minutes of film in a shoddy production like this. In a lengthy phone call with one of the researchers I addressed pretty much everything which everyone has mentioned above as a potential pitfall or shortcoming–celeb dross, cliches about the industrialised North, ignoring the 80s and 90s etc.: I'm guessing the 'conversation' (I'm using the term loosely) went totally over their heads. Because of the scarcity of historical archive footage Northern is a difficult subject to bring to the screen in a documentary, but once again we've been let down by a hackneyed presentation which views the scene as a kind of curio or cultural irrelevance on their terms. Bitterly ironic because to me the thing started and developed in the way that it did precisely to get away from soul fans being patronised by the cultural elite.

Pretty much all of that is covered.

It would have been entirely possible to limit the soundtrack to one highly specific timeframe: let's say April 75 to November 1975. That would no doubt please the detail obsessives but you've got to remember that the audience is hopefully a wider one than just people who were on the scene then, or indeed are on the scene now. If the music were limited to what was hot in those specific months I'm sure people would point out that quite a lot of it was likely to be poor—if you look at playlists from any of the great nighters of the past you're going to see some great records, but also quite a lot of filler too—that's the nature of any upfront scene. It's only really in hindsight that any of us can build a more rounded view of any era on the scene. Cherish the best bits and leave the dross behind. That's the way it's always been. The music on this compilation has to serve more than one function. It simply cannot be both a perfect snapshot of a moment in time while also being representative of the very best in Northern Soul. NS music is the soundtrack, but it has to be used in a way which has narrative drive. Sam Dees "Lonely" is used in the soundtrack because of the way it adds foreboding and menace to a particular scene. You know and I know that it wasn't played at allnighters until Stafford in about 1984. Should it be replaced on the soundtrack with something that got fifteen minutes of fame at Wigan but which is essentially a poor record and which would not cast the scene in a good light? There are a few things on there which were very much Oldies by 1975 and wouldn't really have been cutting edge allnighter plays either at the time. Stuff like Freddie Chavez or Bob Relf deserve to be on there because I'm sure they'll sound great to people who've never heard them before.

The music business links between St Louis and Chicago were always very strong. It's only a couple of hundred miles between the two and St. Louis artists would have looked to Chicago as the nearest truly big music business hub in terms of studios, distribution, access to bigger radio stations or just bigger clubs to play in. Chess records had a long history of looking to St. Louis for talent: in the soul years alone Oliver Sain, Bobby McClure, Fontella Bass and others all made the short journey. Going back further Little Milton, Chuck Berry etc. were all scouted there. Jo Armstead was based in Chicago at the height of her career but would have started out as an Ikette in St. Louis. Presumably she continued to have music business links there.

Who first played the vocal? Assuming Sidra's Theme was Curtis or Levine at The Mecca.

I can understand why many performers would want to attempt this song as its so perfect in its construction, but the James Carr original is so definitive that it can never, ever be beaten. One of the true masterpieces of 60s soul. I wonder who the wailing female vocalist is on it? I know an uncredited Betty Harris duetted with Carr on "I'm A Fool For You".

Isn't it exactly the same track as the Frank Foster?

"You shall not make for yourself an idol in the form of anything in heaven above or on the earth beneath or in the waters below."

Different typefaces for Numero release: it uses Futura Book or Medium (the 'pointed' W and M are a giveaway).

This is terrible news. Rest in peace Bob.

I'd say the Al Scott is before the Mr. Soul release as this has the same label art as the other Genuine releases by The Triumphs and Charles Hodges. Pure speculation but I'd say the black label copies were self-financed at a slightly later date–maybe to sell at live performances billed as 'Mr Soul'. The writer credits on the two releases are basically the same as Al Scott is Mr. Soul. B.Hall is credited on both as co-writer. He's also credited as the writer of the Charles Hodges 45 on Genuine. There is no yellow label copy. That's just the ambient lighting in the room where the 45 above was photographed.

The figure was pure speculation on my part Glyn but it seemed to be listed for quite a long time, whereas other stuff–as Ivor mentions above–seemed to go pretty quickly, even at the higher prices. Ivor's point about the record's sound is valid. In London at the time it seemed the really modern sounding stuff was going out of favour and the Crossover thing was the flavour of the month. Chicken and Egg I suppose. Many of us were looking towards older sounding stuff as the quality of the newer Indies seemed to bedropping off a cliff face. A year earlier there were records coming in seemingly every week which still sound timeless today: Richard C, Johnny Dean, David Sea, Joseph Cotton, Willie Johnson, Tommy Tate, Veda, Daryl Pediford and on and on. By the time Sho-Nuff, Jeff Floyd, The Prize, etc. came along I got a feeling that this was the last stand for Classic Soul on 45 from tiny labels. By the following year I recall it being difficult to really regularly buy new soul singles from Soul Bowl, Record Corner etc. which were really any good, aside from those by already established artists. Everyone's experience will be different though.

Indeed. A couple of hundred copies won't meet thirty years of global demand.

A Soul Bowl front page record, which for some reason I never bought. Was slightly more expensive than the regular releases of the time, but not priced as 'rare'. The standard stock new releases were £3.50 in 1984, with the rarer ones like Ron Henderson, Fabulous Playmates and Chuck Roberson at £15. I've binned all my lists but think Jeff Floyd was a fiver. I wonder how many they had. I'm guessing a couple of hundred copies.

Supposedly a lineup of The Falcons.

Don Varner is the bomb.

Ava was Fred Astaire's label, distributed by MGM. It was originally Choreo Records and the name was changed in 1962.

The thing which led me to think it was a Bestway was the visual similarity to this 45: Bennie Turner on Skymac, an early 60s Bestway vinyl press. Note the similarities in typesetting and layout—Trade Gothic for the record title, Spartan for many of the other credits. The Bennie Turner uses Erbar Condensed for the "Preview Copy" and Cheltenham for "Bennie Turner". Tamala Lewis doesn't use the Cheltenham font but other than that looks like it was set in the same shop. On further research it appears Bestway had no in-house print studio at that time and just took artwork from clients. These labels were apparently set at a company called Co Service in Newark, which was indeed later acquired by Bestway, moved to their Mountainside New Jersey factory and renamed Shell Press. So from 66 onwards only Bestway labels looked like this but at the time of the Marton release it could indeed have been pressed at any of the New Jersey factories Kev lists above.

There's a raised 'B' on the styrene Amy Mala Bell 45s. Will have a rummage through in the next dew days for some Bestway vinyl 45s.

It doesn't look like any records from either of those plants. It looks like a Bestway 45. They produced vinyl for custom clients alongside styrene for Bell and some of the other large indies such as Atlantic and Jubilee/Josie. Bestway was less than ten miles away from Plainfield. I don't know if Larry Uttal ever owned Bestway as such. Bestway operated the Amy, Mala and Bell labels until Uttlal bought them from Bestway owner Al Massler in the early 60s. The LW in the runout represents LongWear who manufactured the stamped parts.