Garethx

Are we sure about 'extensively played at the Wheel"? I remember a lengthy thread on here about a comprehensive playlist from the venue and the inclusion of Dobie Gray provoked a lot of heated debate.

Doc Peabody's voice sounds more than all right to me. Comparing it to the output of PIR misses the point i think–it's the occasional rough edges which make it emotionally compelling. I thought we were meant to be a scene where the underdog gets given a break? The price doesn't surprise me as outside the initial few copies bought over here it's never been found in anything like quantity.

Capitol/Tower used a plant called Rainbo in California to press their styrene releases. These were notoriously bad pressings where the thin styrene is of such poor quality that it's dark grey rather than black, and really prone to scratching, cracking, cue-burn and anything else bad that can happen to a 45. The fidelity is also pretty poor. Even pristine copies of this 45 can sound muffled.

Owned by the cartoonist Jay Ward. HB Barnum may have had a stake in it, but it was the creation of the Rocky & Bullwinkle man.

Also the poor man's way of getting this. On two Walter Hawkins albums–Do Your Best and Selah–from 1972.

John Ridley's site is generally a brilliant undertaking. There's a wealth of invaluable information there, but on the 'Northern' side of things his information can sometimes be a bit sketchy. I think he's placing it there in the discography because of the catalogue number.

Laura Lee's is the original version.

If there are supposedly 70-80 "original US copies" (implying there is a 1960s original) I'd love to see one. I think people are getting their wires crossed. Flaming Arrow was still an active label releasing new music in the late '80s. As for these being pressed in the UK I don't think that's the case. My own copy is long gone but nothing about it suggested a UK pressing. I think Eugene Davis pressed them in the US and had them shipped to Britain as a job lot.

Only pressed late 80s, early 90s after plays from an unreleased acetate. No genuine sixties release.

This page of his website may be of interest… https://nealelundgren.com/musician/

Lulu was early 1965, Patti some time in 1966. It's a Les Reed song. The guy who wrote "It's Not Unusual" and "The Last Waltz" among other British pop classics.

Sonny Moore on Mercury Often played pitched down on the Popcorn scene.

Lulu is the original of this isn't it?

What's the Pied Piper thing on the backing track of "Just Can't Leave You"?

Agree wholeheartedly with you Chalky.

I think it's hard for records to become legends these days–no matter how good.

I know that Chalky and Kev. Just making the point that the sound of the record would have been spot-on for the scene circa 1972-3 had it been known then.

Maybe the key with the unissueds is (sadly) to keep them unissued. We've become spoilt by the number and quality of tape-only things which have made it onto compilations and official 45s. I remember speaking to Mick Smith about Eddie Holman's great "Hold Me In Your Arms" and he was of the opinion that the record had been killed stone dead by its Grapevine 2000 release. As an exclusive nighter play it could have had a far longer lifespan. Culturally as Northern fans perhaps we're happier wanting things rather than having them.

Imagine how huge something like Henry C. & The Ivy Leaguers would have been at the Torch. Kind of wasted on today's nighter scene, which is a shame. And that's a real, released record.

Track 1 is The Dynells 'Call On Me' (Vent) Pete.

Butch. A long time ago.

In a way it is true to state that we've never had it so good. The sheer amount of music available to play is so much greater than it's ever been before. Of course the turnover and quality of newies will never be what it was forty years ago. That's inevitable for a scene based on vintage music with an essentially finite supply. The curve of discovery is fixed. Complicating that is the fact that people join the scene at all points within its history. One man's newie is anothers tired oldie. To me the amount of enjoyment you get out of Northern is always directly related to the effort you put in. If you're at the coalface, travelling to allnighters, digging for new records, dancing a lot, you're going to enjoy it all far more than just taking an interest in the scene from an online stance. Last allnighter I went to (July 100 Club) was as good as ever in all respects except for the record bar area. Given that everyone seems to wheel and deal online now that's probably inevitable.

I think the very most interesting point made in the huge, labyrinthine thread as reaction to the last BBC documentary was Kegsy's point about Wigan being the scene's only truly 'pivotal' venue. Quoted below: "I'm not sure what you mean by pivotal, the only one I would call pivotal would be Wigan because it completed altered the scene with the mass influx of people who didn't know the first thing about SOUL music. Lets face it if your introduction to the music was Javells, Nosmo King or Wigan's Chosen Few its hardly a good grounding. Contrary to popular opinion the scene was/is, before and after Wigan, a scene where people went to dance to SOUL music. Contrary to popular opinion the scene was never just about 100mph up-tempo stompers, although when coupled with a soulful vocal they can take some beating. Many records played at Wigan diluted the soul content at the expense of the stomping beat. Cleethorpes Pier managed to get the mix between 60s and 70s releases just about right so it provided a venue where the people who were into SOUL music could go, and not just listen to the 100mph stuff. It combined the best of the Mecca and Wigan so at the time it was pivotal IMHO. Many people at the time were royally pissed off with the Wigan/Mecca war and just ignored both by going to Cleethorpes, which had taken up the gauntlet of the true underground SOUL scene. There are times when I wish Dave Godin hadn't bothered to coin the phrase Northern Soul, because for some people, it put more emphasis on the beat than the soulful content of the music." To me that's the crux of this question too.

Get well soon Ian.

The one on the link above is definitely vinyl. Don't know that I've seen a styrene white label demo. The promos are pressed at MGM and Bestway. The Monarch issue has "Fame" in type, not a logo.