Garethx

Leo: I wonder if you saw my post about this last month. It's actually on an American CD compliation of Virginian soul (which I don't have). From what I remember on hearing it out it is a great harmony soul record. Dan: Have you got any pictures of the Soul Bros Inc. (Houston variety)? gareth

Anyone got any idea of the current value of Mary Moultrie "Rover" on US Columbia?

Yeah, It was a real autograph alright. I've never asked anyone for an autograph before or since, but for some reason I've got two from Terry Callier. He's something of a hero of mine, and as anyone who's met him can attest, a smashing lad. I think "Ordinary Joe" is one of the greatest songs ever written and have no doubt that it would be a guaranteed certain number one pop hit if covered today in an appropriate style. I just don't think many contemporary artists could do it full justice.

Mischief, I'm ashamed to say I took the mint one.

Jerry Butler's "Oridinary Joe" is the original released version on the "You & Me" lp from 1969/1970. "Occasional Rain" and the 45 are from about 1972. There's a brilliant six minute-plus Terry Callier version from 1968 on the "First Light" CD or lp, released in the states in the mid-to-late 90s. Although I think this may be deleted now it's well worth searching out. I think it's mind-blowing. He also re-cut a version for the Elektra lp "Turn You To Love" in about 1980. Some people prefer this one. It's a lot more 'mainstream soul' than some of the others, but to me it doesn't have the same magic as the earlier readings of the song. As an aside I was looking for a single of "Ordinary Joe" a couple of years back. I had some credit with a particular dealer at the time, and at a venue he said "gareth, I've got a couple of copies of "Ordinary Joe" if you want one. One's mint and the other's got writing on the label for fifty quid less." I looked at both. The WOL was Terry Callier's autograph. So much for celebrity!

I bought Dave Thorley's copy of "Pyramid" in about 1987 for £250. It seemed like the biggest tune in the country at that time. When It arrived in the post it was just sellotaped between two bits of cardboard, without a mailer or even an envelope! I was a student at the time and spent my entire grant for the autumn term on it. It dwarfed the rest of my collection to such an extent that I felt I couldn't justify the expense (or eat) and so swapped it with John Anderson a few short months later. In return I got a copy of every Bobby Womack album and all the Bill Brandon singles (including "Whatever I Am", "Streets Got My Lady", "Self Preservation" etc.) so I did pretty well out of the deal at today's prices. A few months later Dave asked me to sell "Pyramid" back to him, but I couldn't bring myself to tell him I'd sold it on. (Sorry Dave if you're reading this). A couple of years after this in the early 1990s Craig Moerer found quite a few copies of "Pyramid" and the price came down quite sharply. All these were snapped up fairly quickly and the record has been pretty rare since, and usually the cause of a lot of interest whenever it does turn up. As a postscript to the story a couple of years ago Dave Miekle of the Soulful Detroit website came down from Scotland to the George Jackson night in London where I was playing a few tunes and we swapped record collecting stories. I told him the one about Soul Bros Inc. and he said he had just found one in his attic in Glasgow... to cut a long story short I was re-united with a copy for a lot less (taking inflation into account) than I had bought one for all those years before.

Sorry Ady, should have said every "Northern Soul" type release on Topper. I stand corrected. I've never been a completist. I'm an idiot.

Each to their own and all that, but I hate "Talking About My Baby" with a passion. I used to own every release on Topper bar Dottie and Millie, but I could never bring myself to buy it to complete the set. It was a waste of money when it was £3, let alone £300. The other side of Chuck Holliday on Gloria is "I Still Love You." Used to be played covered up at Stafford by Dave Thorley as James LaRue. It's the same backing track as The Four Voices "With A Lonely Heart" on Voice, and is another absolutely excellent record, better in my opinion than "Just Can't Trust Nobody".

There's a lesson for all collectors here. Never ignore cheap records. In the last few years it seems that people are only after a certain pool of records, and are missing out on potentially expensive monsters of the future. It's not just in monetary terms that people are missing out: the seeming snobbery about cheaper records means punters at dances up and down the country are not getting to hear some great soul because the majority of deejays only seem to be concentrating on a particular number of records. Rod Dearlove at Voices had quantity of The Vanguards "Good Times, Bad Times" for a number of years: It took him ages to sell them all despite his raving about it every month on his list. I believe the most he sold one for was £50. Guy Hennigan sold his two copies of Joseph Webster "My Love Is So Strong" on Crow for £2 each. When I started attending venues it was possible to ask deejays about particular tracks and be told "Oh yeah: it's such and such, it only costs £10." Younger enthusiasts could go out and buy these records. That seems to be happening less and less these days as seemingly more and more deejays fall back on a stereotyped list of more expensive titles. Punters and disc jockeys alike seem to have become less adventurous. I'd like to see younger collectors who are enthusiastic about cheaper, lesser known records get a chance to play such tunes at venues. Or else the whole scene will eventually dwindle and disappear.

Sad news indeed. Oscar Perry was never less than a quality soul man.

Billy Hambric "This Is My Prayer" Fury

I endorse the above. Sad news. At least when you heard a Rick James record you always knew who you were listening to. He could be really soulful when he wanted to: Ebony Eyes, Make Love To Me etc.

This doesn't really answer your question or have anything specifically to do with soul music, but it's a story that always makes me chuckle... A couple of years ago a mate of mine was doing a degree in Fine Art as a mature student, and he and his course were sent to Barcelona for a field trip. He'd been to Barcelona a few times and fancied himself as an old hand, well capable of showing his younger colleagues a thing or two about the local nightlife. After a long evening spent downing Absinthe in the bars of Las Ramblas, he'd become disengaged from the rest of his party. Refreshed but disorientated, he tried to ask a local for directions back to his hotel. The friendly local whipped out a knife and demanded his (fake) Rolex. Stumbling on, he then came upon another group of blokes who, again at knifepoint, relieved him of his wallet and passport. Walking through a maze of unknown streets in stunned frustration, he kicked the nearest thing at hand, a traffic cone, across the street. He looked up and to his horror saw the traffic cone bounce across the street end-over-end in slow motion and hit a parked police car, containing four coppers enjoying an early morning cup of hot chocolate. The unamused policemen then proceeded to pin him face down on the bonnet of the car and beat him maniacally across the arse and legs with truncheons. After a night in the cells and a six-hour queue for a replacement passport, he endured the flight back to Blighty in suitably shamefaced embarrassment to the accompaniment of a merciless ribbing by his teenage classmates. At least the cabin crew let him stand up all the way to Heathrow...

James, the dealer who voiced his opinion to me about the Frederick Hymes has been selling soul records since Butch and Keb were in short trousers...

Don't know about far better Chalky, but I take your point. Although it's the same song and vocalist the two versions are generically very different. The Tonny Hymes is a beautiful, straight deep soul record with a very muted, haunting backing. Fred is at the funkier end of crossover, so I don't think it's a question of either/or in this case. I really like them both. What I was hoping for from someone is a rundown on the Frederick Hymes 45's provenence. Like with the Prix 45s: I was told that the Royal Esquires had been played at Wigan, and people who had owned the record for years were able to compare the copies which had turned up recently with examples of the stock that had been over here since the early 80s and confirm that both were from the same batch, i.e. originals as oppposed to recent re-presses. With the Frederick Hymes, that only seemed to turn up for sale a couple of years ago just as a few big name deejays were hammering it. A very well-respected UK record dealer has told me that all copies of this are 'dodgy'. The existence of the ultra-rare Tonny Hymes original doesn't in itself legitimize Frederick Hymes if this is the case. I don't mind paying £10 or even £20 for what is essentially a new release. I do mind being asked for a couple of hundred quid for a record that can be re-pressed in large quantity any time to meet demand. Can anyone definitively spell out the truth on this matter? The current situation is exploitative at worst and only murky at best.

What about the similarity between I Can't Wait Until... and the Pearl Dowdell and Little Beaver 45s "It's All Over" on Saadia. Both excellent sides too.

Speaking of jazz, what genre does Terry Callier's "Ordinary Joe" fit into? It's jazz, folk, soul, northern, 70s, crossover with gospel/inspirational undertones... basically everything but Aggro-Soul. Can anyone think of another record which generically fits into so many of the above?

Brett I think this guy is aware that people on this side of the pond know he's got a certain amount of copies of The Royal Esquires. Why don't you make him an offer off-auction so to speak? In the amount you would be prepared to pay and no more. He can only say no. As Matt B said in the debate about this last month, this guy is still significantly cheaper than buying one from a box over here. I think the consensus is that they're not bootlegs. The gamble is, of course, that in two years time they might be £10. Or they might just disappear... Can anyone give a comprehensive rundown on the Frederick Hymes III? I've held off buying one of those for a couple of years, despite thinking it's an absolutely brilliant record, so I can understand your reservations about The Royal Esquires.

Thanks for the info, Jason. Cool picture of Teri Thornton too... Her "Why Don't You Love Me" / "Either Way I Lose" on Columbia is a top 45 that would fit in well on all those scenes mentioned. What's her lp like?

Actually think Jones Brothers "Good Old Days" on the same backing track is a far better record. Interesting to see how it would be rated if the respective price tags on the two 45s were swapped...

Interesting point someone made in the Midtempo CD Swap thread about the Jamaican soul scene. I believe the Stardust 45s were originally pressed to satistfy demand for Big City type soul on that scene in NYC and Toronto. Occasionally I've heard pirate radio stations in London in the wee small hours play entire programmes of midtempo early 60s records that we would class as northern slowies. Very interesting at the points where they cross over... Ernestine Anderson on Sue, Chuck Wright on Ember, The Wanderers on UA are all sounds I've heard on this type of show. Unfortunately, these shows seem to be very sporadically scheduled, and subsequent attempts to tune into these stations to find more of the same stripe have resulted in being subjected to a few minutes of ear-splitting ragga and numerous "shout going out..." type exhortations by the deejays. Anyone else know more about these programmes, and the Jamaican scene in general?

It's Soul Bros. Inc. "Teardops" on Salem Think you're right on both points, John. I've seen a scan of it recently, either in a mag (Soul Up North or Shades of Soul maybe), or on a flyer for somewhere I can't recall. It's been comp'd in the states, apparently, if this is the same record: https://www.dcdrecords.com/arcania_virginia_soul.htm Interesting to note this CD features a few fairly well-known northern records "Front Page Love", "Since You've Been Gone" etc., other tunes by artists who recorded pretty well-known northern records (Sebastian Williams, Lenis Guess, Barbara Stant), and both sides of the now notorious Dream Team. Weird. Anyone got this CD?

Aggro Trotover anyone?

I think this is an intriguing example of a record we all bought relatively cheaply (think I paid about £6 for mine), that hasn't been played out or talked about for nearly twenty years, yet when one turns up on ebay it's £400. Begs the question how many more obscurities like this there are in people's collections. My guess: thousands. A thread on "oldies" that only got one or two plays by one deejay years ago might be good...

Might sell this, if anyone's interested, mail me.