Garethx

I certainly don't think the market in the UK is contracting either Chalky. Just more people worldwide feeling the pull of this incredible music too.

Yup.

That's exactly the kind of generalisation I'd expect, flying in the face of all available evidence. Even if everyone who currently owns a Rita & The Tiaras decides to liquidate there is still a meaningful and significant market for it and other records of similar quality in the right condition. Maybe this particular auction result is the at the outlying end of the scale but I don't think it will again become a three figure record in the foreseeable future. Chris, I'm 48 and was told in the mid 1980s by people of your generation that Northern collecting was effectively over. That simply wasn't the case then and is not the case now.

I think the title of the thread should be changed. This guy doesn't seem to be bootlegging in any sense whatsoever. To lump him in with charlatans selling carvers or 70s boots with facsimile labels on ebay is just wrong.

It's a boot.

Just as an aside the sessions with Billy Perry for Jewel included Charlie 'Cole Black' Brown in the line-up. Perhaps it is him on tenor lead.

This is the Monarch, West coast press. Totally legit. They used the Atco-distributed logo from the older releases well into the life of the new Paramount-distributed company for some reason. My copies of Darrell Banks "Here To Stay" (next album in the catalogue) and Margie Joseph "Makes a New Impression" are like this. Hope this helps.

I don't understand comments about 'the bubble bursting' in five or six years time. Is it wishful thinking? It's certainly not based on an empirical study of trends in collecting or even a basic grasp of economics. That will never happen because classic records in great condition are a very finite resource. The market for these now extends far beyond a few towns in Northern England and is growing all the time. I suspect we've all got crappy records in our collections that are difficult to sell. The internet has meant that there's a glut of the kind of titles we all picked up while learning about collecting. Mediocre, plentiful records have never been cheaper while the great records which are scarce have never more expensive. We may not like it but that's the way it's going to be from now on. Why is anyone surprised by the figure achieved at auction by one of the world's foremost professional dealers for this record? It was never available cheaply except as a new release, never around in quantity, is a great example of its particular genre and is in great condition. One thing I will say about it musically rather than as a commodity is that around the time I was prepared to buy one at around £200 (late 1980s) the tape vault version with the extra verse emerged and that really blows the original right out of the water. The 45 just sounds truncated and incomplete in comparison.

All the Maverick 45 were manufactured and distributed by MGM. It was part of Venture, owned by MGM but operated by Mickey Stevenson.

Everything points to it being completely authentic. Local artists supporting a nationally known headline act. The fact that the support acts all went on to have 'Northern' records is purely incidental. Plus apart from Eddie Foster they all went on to be signed by national labels: Vee Jay, Maverick (MGM) and Scepter-Wand. The thing which makes this example collectible to the American memorabilia collectors is that it's a Charles Tilghman-designed poster. He created live music bills in Northern California for decades, primarily but not exclusively for black music acts. Very few people saved or collected these at the time, so surviving clean examples are rare. His letterpress typesetting is very distinctive and individual, so difficult to fake by a layman. I don't think a copy would have raised several thousands of dollars at public auction if there had been any doubts as to its authenticity. Remember that R&B was as much a live phenomenon as it was a recorded one, maybe more so. The Ballads, Eddie Foster Wally Cox and Terrible Tom would all have been known to local club-goers and would have been a significant draw as well as the headliners. I've seen examples of posters from other parts of the country where a well-known headliner is thrown against very obscure local artists who went on to have impossibly rare examples of recorded output.

It's 100% genuine Pete.

I'm absolutely shocked by this news. My sincere condolences go out to Helena's family and close friends.

Milton James is super-rare. John Manship had it covered up on a sales tape as Milton Haney late 80s-early 90s. He wanted about 80 quid for it as memory serves. How many have turned up in addition to that copy? One, maybe two? Rita obviously far more plentiful but always hugely in demand. This price shouldn't surprise anyone as the condition is great and the seller is a respected professional.

The flip of the Keyman version is beautiful deep soul, maybe Bobby's best in that particular genre. All his versions of 'What Is This' are essential really. There's also a version produced by Bobby on Jackie DeShannon on Imperial with a worthy stab at the classic 'Trust In Me' on the reverse.

A really interesting question. I think the essence of the scene isn't necessarily even finding the records in the first place—that is mainly down to happenstance and logistics—it's knowing when exactly to unleash them in the right venue to exactly the right crowd. This also applies to reactivations and revivals. Bear in mind that when the scene first coalesced it was almost entirely made up of very young people. Now the age range goes from the relatively young right up to OAPs. The same records are not going to appeal to everyone and never could. I hear a record like Billy Joe Royal's 'Heart's Desire' today and wonder if it could possibly be taken seriously as 'rare soul' in 2015 had it by some miracle lay undiscovered until now. But to a load of teenagers in the early seventies it obviously had some resonance. There are thousands of examples of this phenomenon including more than a few of what are considered real classics. Many of them are just too trite or instant to cut it with people whose listening experiences have now encompassed a lifetime of music of all kinds. The first wave of records to go big tend to be the most accessible, then other imperatives become more important. It's not necessarily about quality (the constant knock from old-timers from about 1977 was that the quality was no longer there from the Mecca/Torch/Early Casino period) it's about texture and a changing set of circumstances which over time can give a particular piece of music a very different set of meanings.

'Curtis, The Brothers' has been in-demand for at least fifteen years for the crossover side: the side SS is looking for is sort of weak white folk-pop. Good to know he still has his finger on the pulse.

Shocking news. Sincere condolences to family and friends. Rest in peace Joe.

I have a spare of this is anyone wants to buy it.

Demo is easy. Issue is quite scarce.

The Smith-Relf-Nelson ones are Monarch pressings, the Shirlie Matthews credit is on MGM-pressed copies. Makes sense that the MGM ones are East Coast (so Bloomfield NJ). No idea why the writer credits are different or if there is a time lapse between the two pressings. Both are completely legit originals.

It started as a soul scene. The years of mass popularity as Wigan, St. Ives etc. and the kind of sounds which could go massive there are the exception rather than the norm. If people want to characterise the entire scene through that prism fair enough but it would be a skewed analysis. I understand this copy was at one time in the possession of Soul Sam. If you look at Sam's playlists from the so-called Classic Era I'm sure there are lots of sounds which he played covered up between 76-79 which make him cringe now (alongside some great records too of course). This record would have fitted right in with the Mecca 'last hour' ethos of 74-76—in a lot of ways it's musically very similar to things like Delilah Moore, Lyn Vernado and dozens of others—so it's not like it's a completely alien sound which a load of interlopers are trying to graft onto Northern Soul—far from it in fact. Vocally it's really good. A proper soul record at least. Judging it by a set of criteria which basically set the parameters to 'would it have been massive at Wigan precisely 40 years ago' is pointless.

Thing to bear in mind with the Scepter 45 is that mint copies were priced at ten quid on Soul Bowl when not much else around in that quantity was. It seemed to be priced on quality rather than availability—it's a stone classic and will always sell. Also worth noting that there are a few variants. Demos from at least three plants plus issues from at least as many sources plus the variations of the title.

B. McGegor also listed as the writer on The Classics "One Dance" on the Yan-G rarity too.

Here's an RS spot from September 1978. Some great stuff, but also a fair bit of less than stellar material in my opinion. I think as the relationship between Searling and Anderson went on the classic late Wigan sets took shape. This is from the beginning of that association, and while there are a few mammoth exclusives which went on to be all time classics there's also stuff from many other sources just like all the other regulars: some revivals and quite a few records that others were also hammering as well. Love Hustle, JC Messina, Reperata and Ben Zine are all—with hindsight—poor. Other things are definite 'Marmite' records, Wall of Sound, Peggy March, Lou Roberts etc. Betty Boo ‘Say It Isn’t So’ Lou Roberts ‘You Fooled Me’ Vicki Baines ‘Country Girl’ Cobblestone ‘Trick Me Treat Me’ Paula Durante ‘If He Were Mine’ Benny Sigler ‘Who You Gonna Turn To’ Yvonne Vernee ‘Just Like You Did Me’ The Construction ‘Hey Little Way Out Girl’ Rita & The Tiaras ‘Gone With The Wind’ (first time out?) Jimmy Burns ‘I Really Love You’ Gerri Thomas ‘Look What I’ve Got’ J.C.Messina ‘Time Wont Let Me’ Paul Anka ‘When We Get There’ The Twans ‘I Can’t See Him Again’ Wakefield Sun ‘Trypt On Love’ The Dogs ‘Soul Step’ Reperata & The Delrons ‘It’s Waiting There For You’ The Newbeats ‘Don’t Turn Me Loose’ Toni Basil ‘Breakaway’ Holly St James ‘Thats Not Love’ Frankie Beverly & The Butlers ‘Because Of My Heart’ Bobby Paris ‘I Walked Away’ Lou Roberts ‘You Fooled Me’ (again) Tamala Lewis ‘You Won’t Say Nothing’ The Generation ‘Hold On’ Ben Zine ‘Village Of Tears’ Family Affair ‘Love Hustle’ The Millionaires ‘You’ve Got To Love Your Baby’ The Wall Of Sound ‘Hang On’ Peggy March ‘If You Love Me’ The Construction ‘Hey Little Way Out Girl’ (again) Paula Durante ‘If He Were Mine’ (again)

There's a great Maxine Brown version of "Losing My Touch" which was released on at least one Kent album.