Luther Ingram Hib Orange Label

[Guest rickthick]

Hi everyone,

Could you please enlighten me on this one: I never had a copy of "if it's all the same"with the orange design.

What's the difference with the light green one ? Any rare ?

Thanx

[Marc Forrest]

Once had an orange and seem to remember these were the seventies Atco distributed ones. Whites are the rarest followed by the (styrene!) green ones.

Marc

[Guest rickthick]

Once had an orange and seem to remember these were the seventies Atco distributed ones. Whites are the rarest followed by the (styrene!) green ones.

Marc

Thanx mate. can be considered as 2nd issues or reissues then ?

[Guest]

Once had an orange and seem to remember these were the seventies Atco distributed ones. Whites are the rarest followed by the (styrene!) green ones.

Marc

Yellow ones are the rarest

[Pete S]

Look out for a terrible quality bootleg on orange HIB, makes no attempt to look like the real orange one, came out early 80's.

[Guest rickthick]

Yellow ones are the rarest

Any other colors anyone ?!

Thanx for the info

Look out for a terrible quality bootleg on orange HIB, makes no attempt to look like the real orange one, came out early 80's.

What's the difference between the "original" orange copy and the boot ?

[Guest]

Any other colors anyone ?!

Thanx for the info

What's the difference between the "original" orange copy and the boot ?

Yes green and yellow.

[Pete S]

I guess there is:

green styrene

white styrene demo

green vinyl

white vinyl demo

orange 72 Atlantic press

never heard of a yellow one Ken

then there's

green vinyl bootleg (poorer sound than original with indented X in run off, original has raised x)

orange label bootleg (shit quality with HIB in small letters at the top of the label)

John Manship will be able to add or subtract from this list

[Chalky]

Any other colors anyone ?!

Thanx for the info

What's the difference between the "original" orange copy and the boot ?

Light green vinyl....

I guess there is:

never heard of a yellow one Ken

me neither

[Guest]

Yes green and yellow.

The yellow one i`m sure i read it in ovenchips guide and here mine,gotta be the rarest of all,looks like sikc

Sorry just chekced guide,i`m wrong.

Edited November 8, 2006 by ken

[Alan Pollard]

I have what I believe to be an very rare orange copy, can't remember whether it's an east coast or west coast press but it is different and I will scan it post it up later when I find it.

If John Manship is reading this then maybe you can help John as this copy was bought from you some 10+ years ago. As far as I know no other copies like this have turned up.

Regards

Alan

[Val (Chunky)]

The yellow one i`m sure i read it in ovenchips guide and here mine,gotta be the rarest of all,looks like sikc

Oh! You mean psychedelic yellow

[Guest rickthick]

I guess there is:

green styrene

white styrene demo

green vinyl

white vinyl demo

orange 72 Atlantic press

never heard of a yellow one Ken

then there's

green vinyl bootleg (poorer sound than original with indented X in run off, original has raised x)

orange label bootleg (shit quality with HIB in small letters at the top of the label)

John Manship will be able to add or subtract from this list

Many thanx Pete. really helpful !

[Ady Potts]

The yellow one i`m sure i read it in ovenchips guide and here mine,gotta be the rarest of all,looks like sikc

Sorry just chekced guide,i`m wrong.

Hi Ken,

Keep meaning to contact you about your label, i've found out what caused it.

I recently had a couple of rough copies of L.Ingram, I decided to clean the styrene with a light bleach & water mix, to clean out all the junk in the grooves. I accidentally got some on the label, guess what...it turned yellow. Case solved

[Guest]

Hi Ken,

Keep meaning to contact you about your label, i've found out what caused it.

I recently had a couple of rough copies of L.Ingram, I decided to clean the styrene with a light bleach & water mix, to clean out all the junk in the grooves. I accidentally got some on the label, guess what...it turned yellow. Case solved

Bleach you want shooting why didnt it turn white

[Ady Potts]

Bleach you want shooting why didnt it turn white

When I worra lad thoud use "Vim" tha nose, eeh, could get a reet good ol shine tut 78's, wooked a treet ont bog as well

[45cellar]

Hi everyone,

Could you please enlighten me on this one: I never had a copy of "if it's all the same"with the orange design.

What's the difference with the light green one ? Any rare ?

Thanx

Hi

I used to have the Green Stock Copy with the raised "X" in the Deadwax.

When I bought the DEMO I sold the Green Stock Copy, which is something that I now regret and wish I had kept it.

I suppose we've ALL sold records in the past and now wish that we hadn't.

Mint clean Green Stock Copies are extremely difficult to find nowadays, the White DEMO is also difficult.

Since I sold the Green Stock Copy, I now try for the DEMO & Stock Copy of records.

Edited November 8, 2006 by 45cellar

[Guest martyn]

There does seem to be an awful lot of different variations on this one,there also seems to be copies readily availible from all sorts of directions to anyone willing to part with anywhere between £250 - £400............Does anyone think it is really THAT rare,or is it being sold at hyped up prices?......Opinions anyone,cos I for one really don't know !

[Blake H]

Yes green and yellow.

Is that drugs or labels Ken?

BH

[Guest noss]

I am sure John M had a WD for auction a few months ago that was a local copy. That is, not distributed by ATCO and with HIB across the top of the label, similar to the green issue copies. Most WD copies are like my own having the more usual ATCO distribution and HIB down the side, as 45 cellar's scan shows.

[Ady Potts]

There does seem to be an awful lot of different variations on this one,there also seems to be copies readily availible from all sorts of directions to anyone willing to part with anywhere between £250 - £400............Does anyone think it is really THAT rare,or is it being sold at hyped up prices?......Opinions anyone,cos I for one really don't know !

Sold my last one at St.Ives a few weeks back for £90, only vg+ but it did play nice, didn't fly out, took about 2hours to sell.

[45cellar]

I am sure John M had a WD for auction a few months ago that was a local copy. That is, not distributed by ATCO and with HIB across the top of the label, similar to the green issue copies. Most WD copies are like my own having the more usual ATCO distribution and HIB down the side, as 45 cellar's scan shows.

Hi

Yes, he did https://www.raresoulforum.co.uk/jm_auction....xt&num=1793

It has got to be the Rarest version, he says It is the only White DEMO he has had with the Parker Street Detroit address.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

This is the more common White DEMO Design, but still difficult to find.

- My copy with the "Distributed by ATCO RECORD SALES CO."

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The Rare one recently Auctioned on Manship's, with the Detroit address.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The Green Stock Copy, with the Detroit address. "Styrene"

With raised "X" in the Deadwax - POPSIKE

More scans and Info at, WWW.POPSIKE.COM

This is just like the Stock Copy I sold, The White DEMO's are nice to own, but there is something about the Green Stock Copy that is so desirable.

It is difficult with so many other boots of this. The best advice is to buy from a reputable dealer such as Manship if you want to be sure.

or a reputable collector who knows their stuff.

I don't think that the White DEMO has ever been booted, whereas the Stock Copy has.

I hope that this helps.

PS I don't have any Information on the Orange Label, so I couldn't tell you when they were Issued and If they are Genuine reissues or not.

* (I believe the Green Stock Copies on Vinyl are Boots.) *

Please Read On- As I got this bit wrong

I have edited this, as I do not want to mislead anyone

that doesn't read further into the post

Edited November 10, 2006 by 45cellar

[Guest martyn]

Sold my last one at St.Ives a few weeks back for £90, only vg+ but it did play nice, didn't fly out, took about 2hours to sell.

With the amount of green issues about,I would suggest £90 is a more realistic price than the £200-£400s I have seen in the last couple of years-just my oppinion

[Gasher]

yes there is also an ORANGE ORIGINAL RELEASE

WITHOUT THE ACTO DISTRIBUTION ON THE LABEL WHICH WAS 1972

APPARENTLY THE VERY RAREST FORMAT ON ISSUE

DONT KNOW IF ITS STYRENE OR VINYL??ANYONE CONFIRM

TIM BROWN SOLD ONE A FEW YEARS BACK MAY WELL HAVE BEEN

MARTI KOPPELS ONE

BUT IT IS OUT THERE ON AN ORANGE ORIGINAL 60,S RELEASE.

[45cellar]

yes there is also an ORANGE ORIGINAL RELEASE

WITHOUT THE ACTO DISTRIBUTION ON THE LABEL WHICH WAS 1972

APPARENTLY THE VERY RAREST FORMAT ON ISSUE

DONT KNOW IF ITS STYRENE OR VINYL??ANYONE CONFIRM

TIM BROWN SOLD ONE A FEW YEARS BACK MAY WELL HAVE BEEN

MARTI KOPPELS ONE

BUT IT IS OUT THERE ON AN ORANGE ORIGINAL 60,S RELEASE.

Hi

Thanks for confirming that and completing the story on one of the more complex records to collect.

I was completely lost when It came to Information on the Orange Stock Copy.

This release has had more variations than most., purchase with extreme care, If you want a real one.

Edited November 9, 2006 by 45cellar

[Pete S]

I believe the Green Stock Copies on Vinyl are Boots.

I would have to disagree. I'm sure I've had a real one. They couldn't counterfeit the raised X in the run off.

[45cellar]

I would have to disagree. I'm sure I've had a real one. They couldn't counterfeit the raised X in the run off.

Hi Pete

I can't argue with the raised "X" in the Deadwax. My Green Stock Copy was "Styrene"

I thought that they all were.

After checking Manships Bootleg Guide, you're right, the "Styrene" copies are Detroit Issues.

The Original Stock Copies did come out on a Light Green Label and an Orange Label, Vinyl.

My appologies, I was wrong, but this record is such a Minefield for collectors.

I will double check next time, but I'm tired, I've just finished a Night Shift .... Sorry.

Edited November 9, 2006 by 45cellar

[Guest]

Luther ingram originals info with values

LUTHER INGRAM (originals)

IF IT'S ALL THE SAME TO YOU BABE EXUS TREK HIB RECORDS 698 DJ Detroit address 500.00

IF IT'S ALL THE SAME TO YOU BABE EXUS TREK HIB RECORDS 698 DJ Atco distributed 400.00

IF IT'S ALL THE SAME TO YOU BABE EXUS TREK HIB RECORDS 698 green label styrene with raised X in the deadwax 450.00

IF IT'S ALL THE SAME TO YOU BABE EXUS TREK HIB RECORDS 698 light green label vinyl 550.00

IF IT'S ALL THE SAME TO YOU BABE EXUS TREK HIB RECORDS 698 orange label "wylie credit" 750.00+

original 1966 Atco press with different text on label layout. Easiest way to tell is WYLIE is credited as the writer. 1973 issue reads WYLIA

IF IT'S ALL THE SAME TO YOU BABE EXUS TREK HIB RECORDS 698 orange "wylia credit" this is the 1973 Atco re-issue 50.00

LUTHER INGRAM (bootlegs)

IF IT'S ALL THE SAME TO YOU BABE EXUS TREK HIB RECORDS 698 Vinyl bootleg HIB vertical logo left-hand side of label. Detroit addresss green label SCRATCHED IN X in the deadwax 25.00

IF IT'S ALL THE SAME TO YOU BABE EXUS TREK HIB RECORDS 698 orange label HIB at the top of the label. Vinyl bootleg with awful sound quality 15.00

Any other additions will be most welcome, for a book I'm working on.

Scans and info to john@raresoulman.co.uk

Edited November 9, 2006 by john manship

[45cellar]

Luther ingram originals info with values

LUTHER INGRAM (originals)

IF IT'S ALL THE SAME TO YOU BABE EXUS TREK HIB RECORDS 698 DJ Detroit address 500.00

IF IT'S ALL THE SAME TO YOU BABE EXUS TREK HIB RECORDS 698 DJ Atco distributed 400.00

IF IT'S ALL THE SAME TO YOU BABE EXUS TREK HIB RECORDS 698 green label styrene with raised X in the deadwax 450.00

IF IT'S ALL THE SAME TO YOU BABE EXUS TREK HIB RECORDS 698 light green label vinyl 550.00

IF IT'S ALL THE SAME TO YOU BABE EXUS TREK HIB RECORDS 698 orange label "wylie credit" 750.00+

original 1966 Atco press with different text on label layout. Easiest way to tell is WYLIE is credited as the writer. 1973 issue reads WYLIA

IF IT'S ALL THE SAME TO YOU BABE EXUS TREK HIB RECORDS 698 orange "wylia credit" this is the 1973 Atco re-issue 50.00

LUTHER INGRAM (bootlegs)

IF IT'S ALL THE SAME TO YOU BABE EXUS TREK HIB RECORDS 698 Vinyl bootleg HIB vertical logo left-hand side of label. Detroit addresss green label SCRATCHED IN X in the deadwax 25.00

IF IT'S ALL THE SAME TO YOU BABE EXUS TREK HIB RECORDS 698 orange label HIB at the top of the label. Vinyl bootleg with awful sound quality 15.00

Any other additions will be most welcome, for a book I'm working on.

Scans and info to john@raresoulman.co.uk

Thanks John

[Pete S]

There's a copy of Exus Trek on Ebay almost every week and they never make 50% of those prices...I bought a green styrene one for £150 about 6 weeks back. What about the version below...£151

Edited November 9, 2006 by Pete-S

[Guest]

There's a copy of Exus Trek on Ebay almost every week and they never make 50% of those prices...I bought a green styrene one for £150 about 6 weeks back. What about the version below...£151

Pete,

CONDITION IS EVERYTHING Mint minus = value quotes, this baby looks like it's spent it's life out of a sleeve. £151 seems expensive, as it looks like it's in car-boot condition.

Pete also thanks for the info.

I'll have to start bidding on e-bay..do you give lessons..I think it could be fun.

Edited November 9, 2006 by john manship

[45cellar]

Pete,

CONDITION IS EVERYTHING Mint minus = value quotes, this baby looks like it's spent it's life out of a sleeve. £151 seems expensive, as it looks like it's in car-boot condition.

Pete also thanks for the info.

I'll have to start bidding on e-bay..do you give lessons..I think it could be fun.

Hi

When I sold my Mint "Styrene" Stock Copy, I also sold a Mint Sue 4040 - Jackie Day "Before It's Too Late" Ouch!

Not one of my best decisions. It was the 70's but I think I only sold them for a few quid.

Look at todays prices.

Edited November 9, 2006 by 45cellar

[Pete S]

I'll have to start bidding on e-bay..do you give lessons..I think it could be fun.

I remember when you used to constantly ask me about the internet when you were setting up your website John..now all you can do is mock. Cuts me to the quick.

I can tell you one thing about Ebay though - not that many people seem bothered about conditions!

[Guest martyn]

Pete,

CONDITION IS EVERYTHING Mint minus = value quotes, this baby looks like it's spent it's life out of a sleeve. £151 seems expensive, as it looks like it's in car-boot condition.

Pete also thanks for the info.

I'll have to start bidding on e-bay..do you give lessons..I think it could be fun.

Hi John,

putting condition aside,do you really belive that the green stock copies are all that hard to come by compared with most of the other records in this price bracket ?For example,how many Luther Ingram's crop up compared to say(to pick on another classic oldie at random) Margaret Mandolph's-but still valued around the same?

[Pete S]

Hi John,

putting condition aside,do you really belive that the green stock copies are all that hard to come by compared with most of the other records in this price bracket ?For example,how many Luther Ingram's crop up compared to say(to pick on another classic oldie at random) Margaret Mandolph's-but still valued around the same?

I got a Margaret Mandolph off ebay in 2001 for some ridiculously low price - it was listed as "early David Gates" and didn't even mention MM in the title listing...anyway, didn't see another for 4 years!

[Guest]

Hi John,

putting condition aside,do you really belive that the green stock copies are all that hard to come by compared with most of the other records in this price bracket ?For example,how many Luther Ingram's crop up compared to say(to pick on another classic oldie at random) Margaret Mandolph's-but still valued around the same?

Martyn,

It is supply and DEMAND how many pepople strive to own the MUCH-RARER Margaret Mandolf..not many.. Exus Trek is one of the greatest tunes of all time and every Northern Soul collectors needs to own a copy.

.. Don't blame me, the collectors make the prices. If we auction a mint minus Exus Trek those are the prices we get (approx)

I've auctioned a MINT M.Mandolf inside it's original Dot sleeve..Unplayed we got less..than £500. i think it was even less than £400. Rarity is only one part of the 3 factors for price.. DEMAND, SUPPLY, CONDITION.

Crazy thing is Chi-Lites - She's Mine on Blue Rock..last night saw hardly any interest. awesome record you never see sale especially MINT unplayed..made £300.. Sam Dees SSS international made £400+ there are no rules..to prices..mainly DEMAND dictates the final sale price.

[Pete S]

How much would you put on this version of Exus Trek John?

reissue with photocopied label stuck on.

This guy gets ridiculous prices for records because he puts photocopy labels over pressings.

He makes no bones about it too, in his description he says what it is, so no problem with him - but the people who bid on them must have a screw loose.

https://cgi.ebay.com/NORTHERN-SOUL-LUTHER-I...bayphotohosting

[Guest James Trouble]

Luther ingram originals info with values

LUTHER INGRAM (originals)

IF IT'S ALL THE SAME TO YOU BABE EXUS TREK HIB RECORDS 698 DJ Detroit address 500.00

IF IT'S ALL THE SAME TO YOU BABE EXUS TREK HIB RECORDS 698 DJ Atco distributed 400.00

IF IT'S ALL THE SAME TO YOU BABE EXUS TREK HIB RECORDS 698 green label styrene with raised X in the deadwax 450.00

IF IT'S ALL THE SAME TO YOU BABE EXUS TREK HIB RECORDS 698 light green label vinyl 550.00

IF IT'S ALL THE SAME TO YOU BABE EXUS TREK HIB RECORDS 698 orange label "wylie credit" 750.00+

original 1966 Atco press with different text on label layout. Easiest way to tell is WYLIE is credited as the writer. 1973 issue reads WYLIA

IF IT'S ALL THE SAME TO YOU BABE EXUS TREK HIB RECORDS 698 orange "wylia credit" this is the 1973 Atco re-issue 50.00

LUTHER INGRAM (bootlegs)

IF IT'S ALL THE SAME TO YOU BABE EXUS TREK HIB RECORDS 698 Vinyl bootleg HIB vertical logo left-hand side of label. Detroit addresss green label SCRATCHED IN X in the deadwax 25.00

IF IT'S ALL THE SAME TO YOU BABE EXUS TREK HIB RECORDS 698 orange label HIB at the top of the label. Vinyl bootleg with awful sound quality 15.00

Any other additions will be most welcome, for a book I'm working on.

Scans and info to john@raresoulman.co.uk

I have light green vinyl, HIB with ATCO distribution and wylie credit. I'll scan it later.

[Guest martyn]

I got a Margaret Mandolph off ebay in 2001 for some ridiculously low price - it was listed as "early David Gates" and didn't even mention MM in the title listing...anyway, didn't see another for 4 years!

How much did you shift it for Pete?......I was only using MM as an example- but it would look nice in my box,its one of those records that always comes up when I'm skint !

[Pete S]

How much did you shift it for Pete?......I was only using MM as an example- but it would look nice in my box,its one of those records that always comes up when I'm skint !

Can't remember mate. £125 or something like that. Was a long time ago though. Bought one for my mate John for £160 last year.

[Guest martyn]

Martyn,

It is supply and DEMAND how many pepople strive to own the MUCH-RARER Margaret Mandolf..not many.. Exus Trek is one of the greatest tunes of all time and every Northern Soul collectors needs to own a copy.

.. Don't blame me, the collectors make the prices. If we auction a mint minus Exus Trek those are the prices we get (approx)

I've auctioned a MINT M.Mandolf inside it's original Dot sleeve..Unplayed we got less..than £500. i think it was even less than £400. Rarity is only one part of the 3 factors for price.. DEMAND, SUPPLY, CONDITION.

Crazy thing is Chi-Lites - She's Mine on Blue Rock..last night saw hardly any interest. awesome record you never see sale especially MINT unplayed..made £300.. Sam Dees SSS international made £400+ there are no rules..to prices..mainly DEMAND dictates the final sale price.

Exactly John,which is why I personaly would hesitate to pay those sort of prices for Luther Ingram-There are so many classic records like MM that deserve money like that on rarity alone.

Can't remember mate. £125 or something like that. Was a long time ago though. Bought one for my mate John for £160 last year.

Give me a shout if you find another,I might not be skint !

[Pete S]

Exactly John,which is why I personaly would hesitate to pay those sort of prices for Luther Ingram-There are so many classic records like MM that deserve money like that on rarity alone.

Give me a shout if you find another,I might not be skint !

I actually got that off Ebay. Sometimes it's as if records are invisible to other bidders - like that Dean Courtney MGM stock copy, there were only 2 bidders on that, I got it for something like £130, I've turned down £800...though I didn't have a lot of choice, I'd already promised it (to the same guy) for £200

[Marc Forrest]

Nice one

IF IT'S ALL THE SAME TO YOU BABE EXUS TREK HIB RECORDS 698 orange label "wylie credit" 750.00+

Sold that five years ago in VG nick to a very good friend of mine for a mere 50 Euros

[Alan Pollard]

Hi, As I mentioned in a earlier post I believe my copy to be one of the very few original Orange copies which John values at £750+, heres is a scan of it and see what you think, am I right ????????????? or is it another one for the sales box ?

Regards

Alan

[Pete S]

Hi, As I mentioned in a earlier post I believe my copy to be one of the very few original Orange copies which John values at £750+, heres is a scan of it and see what you think, am I right ????????????? or is it another one for the sales box ?

Regards

Alan

I don't believe ANY version of this is worth more than £400, and finding someone who'd pay £750 for a copy of Exus Trek would be like finding WMD's in Iraq! No offence Alan.

[Alan Pollard]

I don't believe ANY version of this is worth more than £400, and finding someone who'd pay £750 for a copy of Exus Trek would be like finding WMD's in Iraq! No offence Alan.

No offence taken Pete, I wasn't quoting John's value as a value I agreed with I was just trying to separate which one I thought it was in the long list of copies of this record.

regards

Alan

[Pete S]

No offence taken Pete, I wasn't quoting John's value as a value I agreed with I was just trying to separate which one I thought it was in the long list of copies of this record.

regards

Alan

Alan, your copy looks suspiciously like the 1972 one...I'm probably wrong

[Guest]

Hi, As I mentioned in a earlier post I believe my copy to be one of the very few original Orange copies which John values at £750+, heres is a scan of it and see what you think, am I right ????????????? or is it another one for the sales box ?

Regards

Alan

Alan,

Peter should do a little homework before he throws around his witty comments.

As far as I'm aware, you perhaps own the ONLY copy of an original 1966 vinyl press with an orange label! Orange label crediting WYLIE with a different layout for the credits. First copy was found by Nancy Yahiro at Pasadena Record meet in 1998-ish before then it was not known to exist.

I sold it to Steve Foran, I think it was the same copy that eventually ended up with you. I personally have not had a copy, since.

Nancy pointed it out to me. I bought it for $15 and off the stallholder as Nancy passed on it, thinking it was a second press.

I think at auction with the correct description it would easily reach £750 and some.

Let's get away from scratchy, beat-up copies with worn labels selling @ £150. They sell at that price because 90% of serious collectors would rather spend £150 on a mint vinyl in the form of other titles, than own a record in less than Mint minus condition they've gotta replace. Most collectors have their own "Acceptable Condition Line" and don't drop below it. Peter "Condition is everything" and the ORANGE 1966 is by far and away the rarest format of an iconic disc.

And no doubt just like the Len Barry LP thread we'll have a flood of "My mate, his aunty and by Sisters boyfriend from Luxenburg had one and sold it for 17/6p"

[Pete S]

Morning John. Alan's copy has the Wylia credit.

[Guest]

Morning John. Alan's copy has the Wylia credit.

That's worth jack-shit then and I should go to spec-savers.. or the Old People home.

Now here's the question who now owns the original 1966 press with the Wylie credit..??

Com'on someone must have it..

Sorry Pete you caught me pre-coffee

Edited November 10, 2006 by john manship