A Warning For All Webmasters

[Dave Rimmer]

Hi guys, especially any one who runs a website.

I've just received a threat of legal action from Edward Sonny Bivens because I had a discography of the Manhattans on my website.

This is the email below

"Also I just want to inform you, that any use of the name THE MANHATTANS without PERMISSION is Ilegal. Please get a comfirmation to use it on your website from my Attorney:

Regards Edward Sonny Bivins"

Apart from the fact he can't spell Illegal or confirmation, and his Trademark registration covers 'live musical performances by a group' (And that's a direct quote from the registration which he was kind enough to send me a copy of) I've now removed all trace of him and his group from Soulful Kinda Music. Ungrateful git !

Edited November 11, 2005 by Dave Rimmer

[Guest Brian J]

Hi guys, especially any one who runs a website.

I've just received a threat of legal action from Edward Sonny Bivens because I had a discography of the Manhattans on my website.

This is the email below

"Also I just want to inform you, that any use of the name THE MANHATTANS without PERMISSION is Ilegal. Please get a comfirmation to use it on your website from my Attorney:

Regards Edward Sonny Bivins"

Apart from the fact he can't spell Illegal or confirmation, and his Trademark registration covers 'live musical performances by a group' (And that's a direct quote from the registration which he was kind enough to send me a copy of) I've now removed all trace of him and his group from Soulful Kinda Music. Ungrateful git !

Thanks for pointin' that out Dave, you are of course correct.

What a bastard.......Illegal and confirmation were spelled incorrectly.

[Guest]

I thought these old boys were glad of a bit of advertisement and celebration in their twighlight years. *shrug*

[Supercorsa]

Hi guys, especially any one who runs a website.

I've just received a threat of legal action from Edward Sonny Bivens because I had a discography of the Manhattans on my website.

This is the email below

"Also I just want to inform you, that any use of the name THE MANHATTANS without PERMISSION is Ilegal. Please get a comfirmation to use it on your website from my Attorney:

Regards Edward Sonny Bivins"

Apart from the fact he can't spell Illegal or confirmation, and his Trademark registration covers 'live musical performances by a group' (And that's a direct quote from the registration which he was kind enough to send me a copy of) I've now removed all trace of him and his group from Soulful Kinda Music. Ungrateful git !

Didn't they sing Chason D'Amour..............rat-a-tat-tat

I'll get me coat!

[Guest]

Nooooo... LOL. Now you resurrected some transfer rubbish that was buried years ago from my youth!!!!

[Ady Croasdell]

Hard luck Dave normally artists are happy with any mention and it occasionally develops into a two-way admiration society. There are one or two however who are just so awkward and often miserable (possibly from having been ripped off in the past) that their attitude is very negative.

There are some stories I'd love to tell but as they would deflect from an artists singing talent, I don't think it's fair to relate them.

Dave Godin carried a few to the grave with him and if he could hold his tongue I should try and follow his example.

[Mandy]

I hope he gets a cold and feels really poorly, very very ungrateful person

[Ted Massey]

Hard luck Dave normally artists are happy with any mention and it occasionally develops into a two-way admiration society. There are one or two however who are just so awkward and often miserable (possibly from having been ripped off in the past) that their attitude is very negative.

There are some stories I'd love to tell but as they would deflect from an artists singing talent, I don't think it's fair to relate them.

Dave Godin carried a few to the grave with him and if he could hold his tongue I should try and follow his example.

You should write them down before you go so we can all share them

[Larsc]

Hi guys, especially any one who runs a website.

I've just received a threat of legal action from Edward Sonny Bivens because I had a discography of the Manhattans on my website.

This is the email below

"Also I just want to inform you, that any use of the name THE MANHATTANS without PERMISSION is Ilegal. Please get a comfirmation to use it on your website from my Attorney:

Regards Edward Sonny Bivins"

Apart from the fact he can't spell Illegal or confirmation, and his Trademark registration covers 'live musical performances by a group' (And that's a direct quote from the registration which he was kind enough to send me a copy of) I've now removed all trace of him and his group from Soulful Kinda Music. Ungrateful git !

Doesn't your website count as an ordinary publication ? Are you not covered by "free speech" ? Mr. Bivins probably has no idea what he is doing. Most likely he has been told to keep an eye out for dodgy websites and e-mails this threat to every site he finds when googling.

[Guest FreeJimmy]

Thanks Dave.

Beiing that the Free Jimmy Gresham Foundation

has Jimmy's "power of attorney", all you people are hereby

given permission to mention Jimmy Gresham as much as you like.

It goes for his brother too, Willie Gresham.

Carla

Please read his story and sign his guestbook it really

uplifts his sprits.

Thanks again,

You British men are Cool

Carla

[Guest denmac]

hi dave , some people have not got a clue!!!.the idiot who sent the threat to you obviously has not grasped the theory of promotion,self or otherwise. the remedy is clear. I ask every one who has a record by a group named after a district of new york to remove it from their play box and never play it again or even mention that district again....dave,even if that pillock doesnt appreciate your work I/we do

[Chalky]

Doesn't your website count as an ordinary publication ? Are you not covered by "free speech" ? Mr. Bivins probably has no idea what he is doing. Most likely he has been told to keep an eye out for dodgy websites and e-mails this threat to every site he finds when googling.

What a .....thats him not you Dave

[Dave Rimmer]

Doesn't your website count as an ordinary publication ? Are you not covered by "free speech" ? Mr. Bivins probably has no idea what he is doing. Most likely he has been told to keep an eye out for dodgy websites and e-mails this threat to every site he finds when googling.

That's precisely the situation. I've now had a grovelling apology, and the email was blamed on 'an ambitious young assistant'.

Perhaps he read what I put on the SKM site >>>>>Here<<<<< Click on the link as well

I've not yet replied to the email, but will do in due course, and eventually the discography of 'the group who cannot be named' will re-appear

He's even gone as far as offering a link from 'the group who cannot be named's' official website to the discography because it was better, and a lot more detailed than the one he had.

I'm also going to insist that his attorney sends me written permission by snail mail, and I hope he gets charged a fortune for it. What a

[Guest]

Nice one Dave - I hope the ambitious young assistant is now actively seeking new employ

Edited November 12, 2005 by Soulgirl

[Spanner]

Apart from the fact he can't spell Illegal or confirmation, and his Trademark registration covers 'live musical performances by a group' (And that's a direct quote from the registration which he was kind enough to send me a copy of) I've now removed all trace of him and his group from Soulful Kinda Music. Ungrateful git !

[Guest Adam G]

Nooooo... LOL. Now you resurrected some transfer rubbish that was buried years ago from my youth!!!!

In actuall fact the manhattan Transfer have done some excellant stuff over the years.A very good technical vocal group

[Guest Dan]

i don't think you can copyright a discography or the name of a band against this sort of use.

rich buckley would know, he's a copyright lawyer, but i think they were barking up the wrong tree anyway dave

[Rich Buckley]

i don't think you can copyright a discography or the name of a band against this sort of use.

rich buckley would know, he's a copyright lawyer, but i think they were barking up the wrong tree anyway dave

No, to put it bluntly, he's talking bollocks. You are not infringing any trademark/copyright by typing up your own discography of any group/artist or indeed writing about them. Utter tripe. Get said assistant to grovel personally in writing and post it up on here. Unbelievable. Jesus, you run a good and useful website and that's how you're treated. I'd be apoplectic Let me at him Dave!!

Rich

[Guest]

No, to put it bluntly, he's talking bollocks. You are not infringing any trademark/copyright by typing up your own discography of any group/artist or indeed writing about them. Utter tripe. Get said assistant to grovel personally in writing and post it up on here. Unbelievable. Jesus, you run a good and useful website and that's how you're treated. I'd be apoplectic Let me at him Dave!!

Rich

can someone please explain 'apoplectic' it sounds a cool word i wanna use it.

[Rich Buckley]

can someone please explain 'apoplectic' it sounds a cool word i wanna use it.

It means the highest form of rage/anger possible Grrrr!!!!

[Steve L]

"apoplectic" ie in a state of apoplexy, liable to fits of red-faced rage - in other words f**kin steamin'!

Hence very appropriate smilie

[Dave Rimmer]

Thanks for all those who took the time to comment, both on the forum, and off.

Based on the latest email from Mr Bivins, I'm going to put 'the group who cannot be named' (Oh hang on, I can name them now) The Manhattans discog back on the site:

Mr. Rimmer,

Hello again. Let me first say that I understand your angst over this matter and it is well deserved. Also, let me reassure you that it was never the intent of myself or The Manhattans organization to cause any distress or imply to threaten legal action against you in any way. Although I did not personally authorize the content or the release of that email to you, due to the fact that it was done by someone under my employ as a representative, I must accept responsibility. I deeply apologize and hope that you can continue your proven support for The Manhattans. I want to also let you know that you don't need any type of permission from my attorney to use The Manhattans name on your site, nor will there be any further harrassment or threats to you for continuing to do so. On that you have my complete assurance. We would very much appreciate the re-instatement of The Manhattans on your website and put this unfortunate incident behind us. I also want to truly apologize for not only the content of the original email, but for the tone as well. When I read it for myself, I perceived it as rather confrontative and somewhat arrogant, and not to mention threatening. Please accept our apology for that as well. I have taken steps to guarantee nothing like that will ever happen again.

I invite you to visit our website and read our Group History. I believe you will find a wealth of discographic hitsory which you may find useful. Please feel free to use whatever information you like to incorporate onto your site.

I have also had your site added to our Favorite Links page.

www.themanhattans.net

Again, I sincerely apologize for any problems this has caused and if there is anything you need, please feel free to contact me directly.

Thank You

Sincerely

Edward "Sonny" Bivins

The Manhattans

I think I won that one, don't you

[Guest Gavin Page]

I think I won that one, don't you

[Guest Paul]

Hello Dave,

References to artist names in discographies / biographies / reviews and such certainly does NOT constitute an infringement of copyright so please ignore the threat and carry on with your good work ...at least until they send you to prison.

:-)

Best regards,

Paul Mooney

[Guest Dan]

Thanks for all those who took the time to comment, both on the forum, and off.

Based on the latest email from Mr Bivins, I'm going to put 'the group who cannot be named' (Oh hang on, I can name them now) The Manhattans discog back on the site:

Mr. Rimmer,

Hello again. Let me first say that I understand your angst over this matter and it is well deserved. Also, let me reassure you that it was never the intent of myself or The Manhattans organization to cause any distress or imply to threaten legal action against you in any way. Although I did not personally authorize the content or the release of that email to you, due to the fact that it was done by someone under my employ as a representative, I must accept responsibility. I deeply apologize and hope that you can continue your proven support for The Manhattans. I want to also let you know that you don't need any type of permission from my attorney to use The Manhattans name on your site, nor will there be any further harrassment or threats to you for continuing to do so. On that you have my complete assurance. We would very much appreciate the re-instatement of The Manhattans on your website and put this unfortunate incident behind us. I also want to truly apologize for not only the content of the original email, but for the tone as well. When I read it for myself, I perceived it as rather confrontative and somewhat arrogant, and not to mention threatening. Please accept our apology for that as well. I have taken steps to guarantee nothing like that will ever happen again.

I invite you to visit our website and read our Group History. I believe you will find a wealth of discographic hitsory which you may find useful. Please feel free to use whatever information you like to incorporate onto your site.

I have also had your site added to our Favorite Links page.

www.themanhattans.net

Again, I sincerely apologize for any problems this has caused and if there is anything you need, please feel free to contact me directly.

Thank You

Sincerely

Edward "Sonny" Bivins

The Manhattans

that's quite a fair email though isn't it - he's accepted it was wrong and apologised, good lad.

not sure if there's such a word as confrontative, but there ought to be.

[Mike]

a mental image of two workmen in teneriffe in the morning sun, on ladders hammering at the sign of the manhattans bar (its soul events was posted on here other day) muttering "first he wants it down now he wants it up"...

Edited November 14, 2005 by mike-

[Guest Gavin Page]

a mental image of two workmen in teneriffe in the morning sun, on ladders hammering at the sign of the manhattans bar (its soul events was posted on here other day) muttering "first he wants it down now he wants it up"...