Premium Stuff Posted April 16, 2009 Share Posted April 16, 2009 (edited) I was going though some 45s and came across The Signifying Monkey by Freddy Butler on Sa-Mo. So I thought what on earth is it? Having looked it up on Wikipedia I discovered the following and thought I would share it. Anyone know of any other similar mythological themes/characters featured in rare/northern soul records? Cheers Richard The Signifying Monkey is a character of African-American folklore that derives from the trickster figure of Yoruba mythology, Esu-Elegbara. This character was transported with Africans to the Americas under the names of Exu, Echu-Elegua, Papa Legba, and Papa Le Bas. Esu and his variants all serve as messengers who mediated between the gods and men by means of tricks. The Signifying Monkey is "distinctly Afro-American" and is thought to derive from Cuban mythology, which depicts Echu-Elegua with a monkey at his side. Numerous songs and narratives concern the Signifying Monkey and his interactions with his friends, the Lion and the Elephant. In general the stories depict the Signifying Monkey insulting the Lion, but claiming that he is only repeating the Elephant's words. The Lion then confronts the Elephant, who soundly beats the Lion. The Lion later comes to realize that the Monkey has been signifying and has duped him and returns angrily. Edited April 16, 2009 by Premium Stuff Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Codfromderby Posted April 16, 2009 Share Posted April 16, 2009 another one that comes up is "jody" as mentioned in youve been gone too long (ann sexton), also in right on jody (bobby patterson), who or what is jody ?, as for the signifying monkey ive no idea Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Guest Eridu Posted April 16, 2009 Share Posted April 16, 2009 Carl Perkin's excellent 'The Monkeyshine' refers to the "Signifying Monkey in a coconut tree"... How's that for an esoteric link between two 45s? Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
boba Posted April 16, 2009 Share Posted April 16, 2009 stagger lee is also an important african-american folk story that appears in song Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
jocko Posted April 16, 2009 Share Posted April 16, 2009 In the United States, what are now known as cadences were called jody call or jody (also jodie) from a recurring character, a civilian named "Jody" whose luxurious lifestyle is contrasted with military deprivations in a number of traditional calls. The mythical Jody refers to a civilian who remains at home instead of joining the military service. Jody is often presumed to be medically unfit for service, a 4F in World War II parlance. Jody also lacks the desirable attributes of military men. He is neither brave nor squared-away. Jody calls often make points with ironic humor. Jody will take advantage of your girlfriend in your absence. Jody stays at home, drives the soldier's car, and gets the soldier's sweetheart (often called "Susie") while the soldier is in boot camp or in country.[citation needed] (Serendipitously, the name works just as well for female soldiers.) Above from Wikipedia, just think of songs like Johnny Taylors with Jody mentioned and think you will get the picture. Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Premium Stuff Posted April 16, 2009 Author Share Posted April 16, 2009 That's cool guys. Now who has a picture to post up of a signifying monkey, jody, or stagger lee? Cheers Richard Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
hrtshpdbox Posted April 17, 2009 Share Posted April 17, 2009 Jody will take advantage of your girlfriend in your absence. This is Jody's primary function. So prevalent are cadences (songs) about Jody in the Army that there's several volumes of marching songs called "The Jody Call Book" (including ones where Jody's not even mentioned). Jody is very well-known primarily during basic training, when soldiers are typically missing their girlfriends (and not able to seek out new ones); the Drill Sargeants inform new soldiers, both through the songs and just in general jawboning, that they have no girlfriends anymore, that they've lost them to Jody (Sargeant's will try to allow the possibility that married soldiers might not have the same problem). The first time soldiers hear this they look at each other, wondering "who the hell is Jody?"...everybody figures it out pretty quick. Typical: Sgt: Your mama was there when you left. Troops: You're right! Sgt: Your Susie was there when you left. Troops: You're right! Sgt: Jody was there when you left. Troops: You're right! Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Gene-r Posted April 17, 2009 Share Posted April 17, 2009 Only version of this I know is by Johnny Otis, on the flip of Country Girl. Can't believe the bad language his version is peppered with! Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
ShorterSoul Posted April 17, 2009 Share Posted April 17, 2009 There's a brilliant track on the Oscar Brown Jnr's Sin and Soul LP - Signifying monkey.. tells the story of the rift between the lion and the monkey Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
boba Posted April 17, 2009 Share Posted April 17, 2009 Only version of this I know is by Johnny Otis, on the flip of Country Girl. Can't believe the bad language his version is peppered with! you have not heard the rudy ray moore version then ... Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Guest john s Posted April 17, 2009 Share Posted April 17, 2009 you have not heard the rudy ray moore version then ... rudy ray moore version here - contains bad language! Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
michael-j Posted April 17, 2009 Share Posted April 17, 2009 (edited) That's cool guys. Now who has a picture to post up of a signifying monkey, jody, or stagger lee? Cheers Richard is there a surviving photo of Lee Shelton (Stagger Lee)? here's the newspaper article: The St. Louis Globe Democrat, 1895 William Lyons, 25, colored, a levee hand, living at 1410 Morgan Street, was shot in the abdomen yesterday evening at 10 o clock in the saloon of Bill Curtis, at Eleventh and Morgan Streets, by Lee Sheldon [sic], also colored. Both parties, it seems, had been drinking and were feeling in exuberant spirits. Lyons and Sheldon were friends and were talking together. The discussion drifted to politics and an argument was started, the conclusion of which was that Lyons snatched Sheldon s hat from his head. The latter indignantly demanded its return. Lyons refused, and Sheldon withdrew his revolver and shot Lyons in the abdomen. Lyons was taken to the Dispensary, where his wounds were pronounced serious. He was removed to the City Hospital. At the time of the shooting the saloon was crowded with negroes. Sheldon is a carriage driver and lives at 911 North Twelfth Street. When his victim fell to the floor Sheldon took his hat from the hand of the wounded man and coolly walked away. He was subsequently arrested and locked up at the Chestnut Street Station. Sheldon is also known as Stag Lee. another American folk character in many songs is John Henry... Edited April 17, 2009 by michael-j Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Guest Eridu Posted April 18, 2009 Share Posted April 18, 2009 is there a surviving photo of Lee Shelton (Stagger Lee)? here's the newspaper article: The St. Louis Globe Democrat, 1895 William Lyons, 25, colored, a levee hand, living at 1410 Morgan Street, was shot in the abdomen yesterday evening at 10 o clock in the saloon of Bill Curtis, at Eleventh and Morgan Streets, by Lee Sheldon [sic], also colored. Both parties, it seems, had been drinking and were feeling in exuberant spirits. Lyons and Sheldon were friends and were talking together. The discussion drifted to politics and an argument was started, the conclusion of which was that Lyons snatched Sheldon s hat from his head. The latter indignantly demanded its return. Lyons refused, and Sheldon withdrew his revolver and shot Lyons in the abdomen. Lyons was taken to the Dispensary, where his wounds were pronounced serious. He was removed to the City Hospital. At the time of the shooting the saloon was crowded with negroes. Sheldon is a carriage driver and lives at 911 North Twelfth Street. When his victim fell to the floor Sheldon took his hat from the hand of the wounded man and coolly walked away. He was subsequently arrested and locked up at the Chestnut Street Station. Sheldon is also known as Stag Lee. another American folk character in many songs is John Henry... Mississippi John Hurt tells John Henry's story nicely... I'm-a hammer this morning... Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Guest Trevski Posted April 18, 2009 Share Posted April 18, 2009 (edited) I was going though some 45s and came across The Signifying Monkey by Freddy Butler on Sa-Mo. So I thought what on earth is it? Having looked it up on Wikipedia I discovered the following and thought I would share it. Anyone know of any other similar mythological themes/characters featured in rare/northern soul records? Cheers Richard The Signifying Monkey is a character of African-American folklore that derives from the trickster figure of Yoruba mythology, Esu-Elegbara. This character was transported with Africans to the Americas under the names of Exu, Echu-Elegua, Papa Legba, and Papa Le Bas. Esu and his variants all serve as messengers who mediated between the gods and men by means of tricks. The Signifying Monkey is "distinctly Afro-American" and is thought to derive from Cuban mythology, which depicts Echu-Elegua with a monkey at his side. Numerous songs and narratives concern the Signifying Monkey and his interactions with his friends, the Lion and the Elephant. In general the stories depict the Signifying Monkey insulting the Lion, but claiming that he is only repeating the Elephant's words. The Lion then confronts the Elephant, who soundly beats the Lion. The Lion later comes to realize that the Monkey has been signifying and has duped him and returns angrily. Sounds remarkably similar to that other mythical figure, "The Monkey King" aka Monkey, of the Chinese TV series, who tricked the Gods..... Not mythical, but always cropping up, what the hell are 'High heeled sneakers?" Converse All-Stars with 6" heels? and WTF is a 'wig hat"?? Edited April 18, 2009 by Trevski Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
George M Posted April 18, 2009 Share Posted April 18, 2009 In his book Mystery Train, Greil Marcus has a chapter called Sly Stone: The Myth Of Staggerlee, which is decent reading for anyone interested in the subject. Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Guest TONY ROUNCE Posted April 18, 2009 Share Posted April 18, 2009 In the United States, what are now known as cadences were called jody call or jody (also jodie) from a recurring character, a civilian named "Jody" whose luxurious lifestyle is contrasted with military deprivations in a number of traditional calls. The mythical Jody refers to a civilian who remains at home instead of joining the military service. Jody is often presumed to be medically unfit for service, a 4F in World War II parlance. Jody also lacks the desirable attributes of military men. He is neither brave nor squared-away. Jody calls often make points with ironic humor. Jody will take advantage of your girlfriend in your absence. Jody stays at home, drives the soldier's car, and gets the soldier's sweetheart (often called "Susie") while the soldier is in boot camp or in country.[citation needed] (Serendipitously, the name works just as well for female soldiers.) Above from Wikipedia, just think of songs like Johnny Taylors with Jody mentioned and think you will get the picture. I was about to say 'what a load of old b*ll*cks', but then I noticed it's taken from Wackypedia so... Actually, what's said is not wrong, up to a point, but the roots of "Jody Ryder", or "Jody Grind" or "Joe The Grinder" (just three of the names he goes by in these parts) go back to long before his first appearance in wartime army cadences. He's been celebrated (if that's the right word) in blues songs since before blues was recorded. I'd go into more detail but it's been a long day and I can't be arsed... Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Premium Stuff Posted April 18, 2009 Author Share Posted April 18, 2009 I was about to say 'what a load of old b*ll*cks', but then I noticed it's taken from Wackypedia so... I'd go into more detail but it's been a long day and I can't be arsed... Hi Tony- would appreciate some more info please when you have had a bit of a kip Cheers Richard Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Jodie Posted April 19, 2009 Share Posted April 19, 2009 I'm told by my American uncle that Jodie was also a slang term for a drug habit (nice!) Jodie I was about to say 'what a load of old b*ll*cks', but then I noticed it's taken from Wackypedia so... Actually, what's said is not wrong, up to a point, but the roots of "Jody Ryder", or "Jody Grind" or "Joe The Grinder" (just three of the names he goes by in these parts) go back to long before his first appearance in wartime army cadences. He's been celebrated (if that's the right word) in blues songs since before blues was recorded. I'd go into more detail but it's been a long day and I can't be arsed... Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Jodie Posted April 19, 2009 Share Posted April 19, 2009 Here's a Jodie Jodie LOL! That's cool guys. Now who has a picture to post up of a signifying monkey, jody, or stagger lee? Cheers Richard Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Guest Posted April 19, 2009 Share Posted April 19, 2009 rudy ray moore version here - contains bad language! Jesus talk about turning the air blue Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Guest john s Posted April 19, 2009 Share Posted April 19, 2009 Jesus talk about turning the air blue Did warn you! Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Guest ScooterNik Posted April 22, 2009 Share Posted April 22, 2009 IIRC Stagger Lee is based on a true story from the early 20th century - usual thing, infidelilty and guns - and was originally from a jazz track. The Clash also used the story in a song too, but memory escapes me as to which one. Please don't tell me its called Staggerlee.... Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Anoraks Corner Posted April 22, 2009 Share Posted April 22, 2009 Sounds remarkably similar to that other mythical figure, "The Monkey King" aka Monkey, of the Chinese TV series, who tricked the Gods..... My company's honorary-president co-wrote the theme song to that classic TV series! Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
michael-j Posted April 22, 2009 Share Posted April 22, 2009 (edited) IIRC Stagger Lee is based on a true story from the early 20th century - usual thing, infidelilty and guns - and was originally from a jazz track. i've already posted the text from the original 1895 newspaper article about the killing in the thread. The Clash also used the story in a song too, but memory escapes me as to which one. Please don't tell me its called Staggerlee.... the Clash covered 'Wrong Emboyo' by The Rulers, which starts off with a bit of Stag-o-lee before going into the song itself Edited April 22, 2009 by michael-j Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Premium Stuff Posted August 18, 2014 Author Share Posted August 18, 2014 Anyone know which year Freddy Butler The Signifying Monkey (SA-MO) was released please? I'm guessing 1964 or 1965 Cheers Richard Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Guest Dave Turner Posted August 19, 2014 Share Posted August 19, 2014 Anyone know which year Freddy Butler The Signifying Monkey (SA-MO) was released please? I'm guessing 1964 or 1965 Cheers Richard Various bits on the net state 1965 Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Premium Stuff Posted August 19, 2014 Author Share Posted August 19, 2014 Various bits on the net state 1965 Thanks Dave - did you find any useful links in particular please? Cheers Richard Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Guest Dave Turner Posted August 19, 2014 Share Posted August 19, 2014 (edited) Thanks Dave - did you find any useful links in particular please? Cheers Richard Richard, a few bits I found said 1965 but now I'm not so sure. Robb's post on Soulful Detroit (with the scan) states it sounds to him like '66/67 but Davie Gordon's post (half way down) states specifically it's from June 1963 https://faac.us/adf/messages/165088/171958.html?1210641377 The flip "I'm Not Afraid" certainly sounds more like the 1963 period to me, but that's recording and not neccesarily release. Edited August 19, 2014 by Dave Turner Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Guest Posted August 19, 2014 Share Posted August 19, 2014 There's a brilliant track on the Oscar Brown Jnr's Sin and Soul LP - Signifying monkey.. tells the story of the rift between the lion and the monkey Superb Jazz-dance classic...in fact I couldn't resist leaving the WD I found in a shop not too long ago! It was within a collection of about 300 US Jazz 45's, which all had the name "G.Benites" typed out and taped on every label...I've never been able to find out who he/she is/was! Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Premium Stuff Posted August 19, 2014 Author Share Posted August 19, 2014 Richard, a few bits I found said 1965 but now I'm not so sure. Robb's post on Soulful Detroit (with the scan) states it sounds to him like '66/67 but Davie Gordon's post (half way down) states specifically it's from June 1963 https://faac.us/adf/messages/165088/171958.html?1210641377 The flip "I'm Not Afraid" certainly sounds more like the 1963 period to me, but that's recording and not neccesarily release. Thanks Dave - yes, conflicting information. It needs to be 1964 or earlier for a small project I'm doing Cheers Richard Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Dave Pinch Posted August 20, 2014 Share Posted August 20, 2014 sounds very early to these ears...june 1963 could well be right Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
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