Original Vinyl Only ?

[Marc Forrest]

You kidding Marc? If you ain't got a CD player & you're ever over here in the North of England you can have my old system as it's just collecting dust.

You're missing out on some great music fella.

I buy CD`s whenever they do cover tunes I do not know for educational reasons. I stick them in my DVD in my bed room. Thats enough modern High End for me But thanks for your kind offer

Marc

[Citizen P]

youre all missing the point ,its all about the actual music not a paper label .the artists dont give a toss what colour the label is.do you go to venues to dance or to talk about record labels like nerds? get real or youre all becoming stamp collectors

Sorry Brian, but that's bollocks! you and every body else that say playing in whatever format is OK is entirely wrong, that attitude is what is kiliing this scene.

Overplayed oldies that we are sick to death of?

Why, they're GREAT Tunes-because everyone and his brother has a copy and wants to play it out.

Venues closing-smaller Crowds?

Why, because ONCE to hear the tunes you had to find the places that had 'em.

Furthermore, most clubs had differing playliists and what was big in Stoke was unknown in Manchester, say.

So again, if it's not being done for money or Glory-

WHY THE F&CK IS IT????

Tony

[Marc Forrest]

Three anecdotes about bootlegs..

A fellow Berlin Funk DJ`s who always likes to have a go at and about Rare Soul / Northern Soul, the DJ`s, the scene, the music in general and the high prices of some of the records always plays along other boots his "nice" blue Lou Pride "Home In The Morning" boot...which always makes me think that the mother of all his negativeness about Rare Soul and all its ethos (ovo for example) is simply called enviousness...

A bootlegger from Vienna and part-time DJ as well as recorddealer once pointed out to me when I accused him for all his bootlegging that he has got all the rights on earth to do so when he has paid 1000 UKP+ for a record. I tried to explain to him the difference between buying the rights of a title and paying your record dealer for your latest vinyl purchase but sadly without any sucess...

At a local Modern Soul do just two weeks ago here in Berlin I was standing (as a punter) next to the decks. DJ A (no names ) finished his set and on went DJ B with his first record...all of a sudden the volume dropped and was down by lets say 15 %. He tried every button he could find but the volume just did not go up anymore. He turned around to me and aksed me what to do...I said "don`t know fella, try the other turntable.." when inside me I was really laughing and would have loved to tell him the truth ...that his bootleg is just poor shite sound quality LOL!

Marc

[Guest kid mohair]

Right then, everybody who has posted on this thread who is anti bootleg/re-issue & has NEVER owned a boot or re-issue shout up now & be honest.

Not many of you I bet

Yep....and have had them since i was a kid,they are now on my juke box,i would not trust putting originals on there, but the disscusion is about playing boots at venues is it not?.Andy.

[Guest brian walker]

Sorry Brian, but that's bollocks! you and every body else that say playing in whatever format is OK is entirely wrong, that attitude is what is kiliing this scene.

in my opinion it is still the actual music produced by the musicians that is the most important (although i would say that bieng one myself) so its proberbly best if i leave this debate to dj s/collectors thanks.hope to see you soon tony at heywood .how is black lassie these days? Overplayed oldies that we are sick to death of?

Why, they're GREAT Tunes-because everyone and his brother has a copy and wants to play it out.

Venues closing-smaller Crowds?

Why, because ONCE to hear the tunes you had to find the places that had 'em.

Furthermore, most clubs had differing playliists and what was big in Stoke was unknown in Manchester, say.

So again, if it's not being done for money or Glory-

WHY THE F&CK IS IT????

Tony

[Roger Williams]

Here's a thought:

Why don't rare soul or OVO promoters simply drop the 'Northern Soul' tag altogether from their venues and tag it a 'Rare Soul' event, and leave the Northern Soul tag to the events that play the 'Top 500' tracks or these so called 'local' events where format isn't such an issue. Surely if you split them like that and advertise them as such, after a while people will learn what to expect and there won't be any confusion or the obvious upset that this issue causes some people?

Or is that total bollocks and even more confusing than things are already?

[Citizen P]

Brian,

Black Lassie is alive and well.

Horrendo Revolver don't look too good though.

Tony

[Dave Moore]

Here's a thought:

Why don't rare soul or OVO promoters simply drop the 'Northern Soul' tag altogether from their venues and tag it a 'Rare Soul' event, and leave the Northern Soul tag to the events that play the 'Top 500' tracks or these so called 'local' events where format isn't such an issue. Surely if you split them like that and advertise them as such, after a while people will learn what to expect and there won't be any confusion or the obvious upset that this issue causes some people?

Or is that total bollocks and even more confusing than things are already?

Why do you care enough to join in the debate?!

Get back to that disco gubbins, Sir! You obviously have too much time on your hands!

[Guest Byrney]

I think this topic arising yet again shows that there are now two scenes forever split: The Nostalgia Scene where pressings, a limited playlist and a reliving of a handful of years of the scenes history is fine.

The second is the Northern Soul scene (some call it rare, upfront - I call it Northern Soul) a scene that from Wigan to Cleethorpes, Mecca to the 100 Club, Yate to Lifeline followed the traditions primarily of OVO and Djs discovering and breaking records alongside underplayed tunes and oldies.

Personally I have no problem with the Nostalgia nights playing Boots as IMO they are not the Northern Soul scene, far removed in fact -having ditched many of the things that connected the two. Fair play, good on em - play what they want as IMO they're not Northern Soul Djs, they do a good job to fill a floor like any mainstream DJ in a pub or at a wedding. However if a northern Soul night, for arguments sake let's say the Attic or Select Soul had boots on the decks (and I know they wouldn't) that would be another matter as these two are part of the Northern Soul scene.

[Guest Byrney]

Here's a thought:

Why don't rare soul or OVO promoters simply drop the 'Northern Soul' tag altogether from their venues and tag it a 'Rare Soul' event, and leave the Northern Soul tag to the events that play the 'Top 500' tracks or these so called 'local' events where format isn't such an issue. Surely if you split them like that and advertise them as such, after a while people will learn what to expect and there won't be any confusion or the obvious upset that this issue causes some people?

Or is that total bollocks and even more confusing than things are already?

Because, what some tag the rare soul scene is nearer in tradition to Northern Soul than the Nostalgia Scene. Was Stafford, Shotts, Blackburne, Lifeline, Wigan Casino,100 club, Ritz, Mecca not Northern Soul? Was In my book - its the Nostalgia Scene that has ditched the tenets that have defined Northern Soul not the other way round, of course imho

[Benji]

A bootlegger from Vienna and part-time DJ as well as recorddealer once pointed out to me when I accused him for all his bootlegging that he has got all the rights on earth to do so when he has paid 1000 UKP+ for a record. I tried to explain to him the difference between buying the rights of a title and paying your record dealer for your latest vinyl purchase but sadly without any sucess...

Marc, I know what and I know who you mean and I agree with you

Bit confusing in Germany when it comes to OVO, some well known excellent DJ's do play originals only some don't, some say they do but don't have a clue on how to differ between original and pressing (e.g. "Soul Rabbi").

Personally I can't really be bothered about what a DJ plays. I'd rather hear a good song off a bootleg than a shite song off an original ...

(Edited the DJ's bit as felt it wasn't really meaning what I wanted to say)

Edited April 14, 2009 by Benji

[Roger Williams]

Why do you care enough to join in the debate?!

Get back to that disco gubbins, Sir! You obviously have too much time on your hands!

Sod off or I'll set our mutual enemy on you!!

In all seriousness though Dave, I find this whole scenario quite intriguing, how people who basically all share the love of the same music in its various guises, can be so divided and have such polar opposite views on some of the aspects surrounding it all. For instance, why do I, as a lifelong collector of original vinyl LPs and singles, not care about the format when it comes to DJ'ing, yet others who are also lifelong collectors of original vinyl, find the thought of not playing originals whilst DJ'ing so abhorrent that they feel the need to dish out abuse to those who don't follow their way of thinking?

Nowt so strange as folk eh mate?

Edited April 14, 2009 by Soulsorts

[Guest sarahleen]

i agree that the "nostalgia" scene is not what northern soul is,ever was or should be about ,to hear the same old songs played over and over even in the same order is quite depressing , i also think this crowd are probably the worse snobs of all as regards a welcoming atmosphere and walking off the dancefloor as some kind of silly mass protest (a west yorks venue springs to mind here ).

but , and im loath to say this , . why do the OVO djs/collectors of late seem so totally and utterly obsessed with RnB and often only RnB ? . or is it just me

[Guest Beeks]

why do the OVO djs/collectors of late seem so totally and utterly obsessed with RnB and often only RnB ? . or is it just me

That's easy Sarah...because anythings better than that 70s shite you listen to

[Guest smigger]

I'd rather hear a good song off a bootleg than a shite song off an original ...

Bit over the top that.

Next you'll want to hear a good set played by someone who knows what all those buttons on a mixer are for.

[Marc Forrest]

Bit confusing in Germany when it comes to OVO, some well known excellent DJ's do play originals only some don't, some say they do but don't have a clue on how to differ between original and pressing (e.g. "Soul Rabbi").

I tend to believe that all "known" DJ`s on the German Rare Soul scene are playing ovo ? Let me know if you know different (via pm if you like )..on the Mod and Funk scene the majority is playing bpo (bootlge plastic only) or bpatoovt (bootleg plastic and the odd origial vinyl too)... ...get me coat LOL!

..oh yes, the Soul Rabbi..don`t get me started LOL pt.2

Marc

Edited April 14, 2009 by Marc Forrest

[Marc Forrest]

Bit over the top that.

Next you'll want to hear a good set played by someone who knows what all those buttons on a mixer are for.

I think what Benji meant was that he would rather hear a "fresh" set played off boots (although for reasons already stated that would prove impossible..) than a boring one played with original vinyl only.

Marc

[Pete S]

That's easy Sarah...because anythings better than that 70s shite you listen to

[Guest sarahleen]

That's easy Sarah...because anythings better than that 70s shite you listen to

what even doowop russ ? ho hum

[Guest sarahleen]

if we all try and make a concerted effort we can make the term "northern soul" obsolete by 6.35 pm on the 3rd of august 2011. precisely

[Pete S]

what even doowop russ ? ho hum

I love doowop. Bit samey, but still brilliant.

[Oldfeet]

I love all my original vinyl records that I've ended up with over the past 40 years , it's not just the music but the memories associated with it that can make them special.

For me Northern Soul was all about listening to something new and different from the 'popular' music of each decade, even if the record playing was a NEWLY discovered 60's oldie

The only down side I can see for O.V.O is that a CD track, like Derek Martin's 'I can't take it no more' might never get played as it was never originally released on vinyl. It could have filled the dance floors in the 70's maybe today as well and as far as I can make out from the opinions in this thread, most O.V.O DJs wouldn't play it out because its not a vinyl release.

I understand the 'it's not on vinyl' opinion from the 'rare soul' fans and understand there are other great/better records that are on vinyl that do get played. I guess it's the exclusion of newly found 'good' music on non-vinyl that seems a little strange to me in my humble opinion.

[Guest sarahleen]

I love doowop. Bit samey, but still brilliant.

yes sometimes it comes in useful if you fancy a jive or do the charleston or maybe a nice relaxing waltz even

[Guest brian walker]

Brian,

Black Lassie is alive and well.

Horrendo Revolver don't look too good though.

Tony

what about red blazer how the hell did i know she was only sixteen

[Pete S]

yes sometimes it comes in useful if you fancy a jive or do the charleston or maybe a nice relaxing waltz even

Don't like soul music then?

[Stevie]

why do the OVO djs/collectors of late seem so totally and utterly obsessed with RnB and often only RnB ? . or is it just me

Apart from being great music to dance to I think it's because there are so many records out there yet to be 'discovered' which makes it far more interesting. Being less mainstream than Northern adds to the appeal. IMHO of course.

[Guest sarahleen]

Don't like soul music then?

yes, i thought that was the point i was trying to make , not too keen on doowop and some of the early 60s RnB thats all ,it just dosnt seem to get down much. is that awful and unacceptable round these parts pete ? is it ?

Edited April 14, 2009 by sarahleen

[Pete S]

Apart from being great music to dance to I think it's because there are so many records out there yet to be 'discovered' which makes it far more interesting. Being less mainstream than Northern adds to the appeal. IMHO of course.

I really like R&B, not necessarily in the Northern sense, I just like it...40's, 50's, great stuff.

[Guest sarahleen]

Apart from being great music to dance to I think it's because there are so many records out there yet to be 'discovered' which makes it far more interesting. Being less mainstream than Northern adds to the appeal. IMHO of course.

its great,the music being played is best ever imho but i cant help thinking that when its played almost constantly we are missing out on some of the rest

[Stevie]

I really like R&B, not necessarily in the Northern sense, I just like it...40's, 50's, great stuff.

And not much of it has been booted so OVO generally not an issue.

[sircharles]

For me this is a very apt post.

I began collecting Northern stuff recently but am very dis-illusioned with the whole thing. I find myself preaching to friends "it must be original". But when I come across a track I love then realise I cannot buy it, it just seems wrong!

The argument boots are rubish/cheatin is a bit ridiculous if you think about it, because the number of issues given to an original release was realistically left up to chance. Who can say they haven't come across a track and thought - "Jesus why did'nt this sell millions?" whilst others on bigger labels happened to take off, Diana Ross or whoever.

I do enjoy opening a piece of history in a parcel everytime, but still there's that nagging question in the back of my head going - "this is just wrong". a kind of man made phenomena.

Graham

[Guest Beeks]

And not much of it has been booted so OVO generally not an issue.

Very true

[Guest soulboy]

Is the Modern soul scene the same ?i know this as been said before but what if its unissued like some of the motown stuff thats been discovered and im sure will be in the future, is the cd the original ?, Gloria Shannon Tears? is the real side copy of this the original , I like most people on here spend hours looking through box's of unknown stuff and never find any thing ,may be its just bad luck on my part,but then if i found something real good i would have no where to play it?One day all the good stuff will have all been found or may be it already as !

Edited April 14, 2009 by soulboy

[Guest sarahleen]

Very true

i cant believe your all saying this about OVO that was made in the blinkin 40s and 50s , what next tea and cream buns an top hats an tails . get with it daddios , stop being sqaures .

this is a northern soul thread isnt it ?

[Stevie]

i cant believe your all saying this about OVO that was made in the blinkin 40s and 50s , what next tea and cream buns an top hats an tails . get with it daddios , stop being sqaures .

this is a northern soul thread isnt it ?

Sorry...

Do enjoy a cream bun...has to be proper cream though, not that synthetic stuff.

[jocko]

Here's a thought:

Why don't rare soul or OVO promoters simply drop the 'Northern Soul' tag altogether from their venues and tag it a 'Rare Soul' event, and leave the Northern Soul tag to the events that play the 'Top 500' tracks or these so called 'local' events where format isn't such an issue. Surely if you split them like that and advertise them as such, after a while people will learn what to expect and there won't be any confusion or the obvious upset that this issue causes some people?

Or is that total bollocks and even more confusing than things are already?

Jeez, something I agree almost (only almost) 100% with you RW, and something unbelievably sensible leaving your lips about NS, it must be a blue moon and an eclipse rolled into one!!!

Only thing is like Mr Byrne says we were first with the name so not sure about giving it away but given the negative connotations with Northern tag these days, probably a price worth paying to end this debate for ever! Amen

Sod off or I'll set our mutual enemy on you!!

In all seriousness though Dave, I find this whole scenario quite intriguing, how people who basically all share the love of the same music in its various guises, can be so divided and have such polar opposite views on some of the aspects surrounding it all. For instance, why do I, as a lifelong collector of original vinyl LPs and singles, not care about the format when it comes to DJ'ing, yet others who are also lifelong collectors of original vinyl, find the thought of not playing originals whilst DJ'ing so abhorrent that they feel the need to dish out abuse to those who don't follow their way of thinking?

Nowt so strange as folk eh mate?

I'm not sure about people abusing all being one sided, not even sure that is not too strong, surely an alternative view is its people defending what they see as retaining values and an integral part of something many people have been involved in for years? However I do agree it is such a boring and pointless debate now, you either get it or you don't (and most Scousers never seem to have got it Roger so do not worry, its probably genetic ) and its just crazy for this debate to continue in my opinion. I think your comment on the people sharing a love of the music is interesting, not sure everyone does, I think there are an awful lot of people today who are more interested in DJ status and the "scene" rather than the actual music, from both sides of this argument.

Nowt as strange as folk part 2!

I thought Rod Shard made a great and interesting point recently, about should we not be more interested in hearing fresh sounds than getting embroiled in this debate, in many ways that would actually define the format. I have seen some playlists on here, OV no doubt, that are still playing the same big ticket records that were hammered 20 odd years ago which in my opinion is a far bigger crime to any scene. There are definitely too many people thinking a big ticket record is the answer, regardless of how often it's been played out over years.

Surely the criteria should be (a) Quality - essential regardless (b ) Fresh - essential for progressive do's (c ) rare - nice to have, scarce at time of playing probably more important, therefore we need lots of cover ups! Combine this with a cull of DJ's, there will then be less venues and advertise them as fresh or not fresh (AKA smelly) problem solved! Is it that difficult!!!

Edited April 14, 2009 by jocko

[Guest sarahleen]

Sorry...

Do enjoy a cream bun...has to be proper cream though, not that synthetic stuff.

yes if you could eat northern soul i guess you might have a point

[Guest]

Jesus this still running lets just all agree to disagree

[Dave Moore]

Sod off or I'll set our mutual enemy on you!!

In all seriousness though Dave, I find this whole scenario quite intriguing, how people who basically all share the love of the same music in its various guises, can be so divided and have such polar opposite views on some of the aspects surrounding it all. For instance, why do I, as a lifelong collector of original vinyl LPs and singles, not care about the format when it comes to DJ'ing, yet others who are also lifelong collectors of original vinyl, find the thought of not playing originals whilst DJ'ing so abhorrent that they feel the need to dish out abuse to those who don't follow their way of thinking?

Nowt so strange as folk eh mate?

Strange indeed! I learned many years ago Mate, to do 'what I do', and let others do 'what they do' and over the years like minded people tend to gravitate to each group as a natural occurrence anyway. As a collector and not a "DJ" I find it quite amusing though that most of what I call the 'Nostalgia DJs', (and I do mean most), would pluck out their Granny's eyeballs for a spot at a mediocre venue full of people who couldn't really give a frog's fart as to who was on the rosta because it's the same 55 records they're gonna hear between 10pm - 1am as they heard the week before! That's why many venue's "DJs" have become a "locally geographic list" as opposed to a "quality of records list". 'You play my working mens club this week and I'll play yours next week'. It's all nice and cosy and everyone thinks they're a 'DJ'. I really ain't got a problem with that at all. They inhabit their world and I inhabit mine. No big deal to me. If people have such a sad life that they find it imperative to stand behind a set of 10 year old Technics with damaged styli and an overweighted tonearm blasting the odd original Top 500 45 amongst a set of bootlegs out of underpowered ProLine speakers.....crack on chaps. ENJOY.

The loudest shouters though are usually other 'DJs" who think they are being shortchanged in that THEY should be playing the same 55 records as theirs are OVO!

I agree with whoever made the comment (Pete S?), that years ago you knew who the real DJs were and everyone else was just a 'putteronerofrekkids'.

[Dave Moore]

I think your comment on the people sharing a love of the music is interesting, not sure everyone does, I think there are an awful lot of people today who are more interested in DJ status and the "scene" rather than the actual music, from both sides of this argument.

At last......the truth is out there!

[Guest]

to stand behind a set of 10 year old Technics with damaged styli and an overweighted tonearm blasting the odd original Top 500 45 amongst a set of bootlegs out of underpowered ProLine speakers.....crack on chaps. ENJOY.

[KevH]

I think this topic arising yet again shows that there are now two scenes forever split: The Nostalgia Scene where pressings, a limited playlist and a reliving of a handful of years of the scenes history is fine.

The second is the Northern Soul scene (some call it rare, upfront - I call it Northern Soul) a scene that from Wigan to Cleethorpes, Mecca to the 100 Club, Yate to Lifeline followed the traditions primarily of OVO and Djs discovering and breaking records alongside underplayed tunes and oldies.

Personally I have no problem with the Nostalgia nights playing Boots as IMO they are not the Northern Soul scene, far removed in fact -having ditched many of the things that connected the two. Fair play, good on em - play what they want as IMO they're not Northern Soul Djs, they do a good job to fill a floor like any mainstream DJ in a pub or at a wedding. However if a northern Soul night, for arguments sake let's say the Attic or Select Soul had boots on the decks (and I know they wouldn't) that would be another matter as these two are part of the Northern Soul scene.

Hi Byrney.Just a couple of points.

From the Attic (and possibly other soul nights point about pitching the nite),its difficult to pigeon hole what you're about nowadays.Is it Rare or is it Northern?.If you pitch as Rare,its not Rare enough for some.If you pitch as Northern,its not the Top 500,so you fall thru the net so to speak.

Other thing at the Attic..for those who know,, the decks are at floor level.Punters can come over anytime to chinstroke, debate,argue about labels,issues over demos,carvers even.What they won't see now is boots /pressings.

We never interfere with a guests spot.We only book dj's with the integrity NOT to play boots etc.OV only.

That's us....like it or not.

Sorry to make this "personal" and off topic,but felt i needed to have my say.

[Guest gordon russell]

me to I stand there for ages waiting fot Girl across the Street to come on...wonder if its a boot.

thats cause you're an oldies only fan paul we would'nt expect anything else

[Guest gordon russell]

Hi Byrney.Just a couple of points.

From the Attic (and possibly other soul nights point about pitching the nite),its difficult to pigeon hole what you're about nowadays.Is it Rare or is it Northern?.If you pitch as Rare,its not Rare enough for some.If you pitch as Northern,its not the Top 500,so you fall thru the net so to speak.

Other thing at the Attic..for those who know,, the decks are at floor level.Punters can come over anytime to chinstroke, debate,argue about labels,issues over demos,carvers even.What they won't see now is boots /pressings.

We never interfere with a guests spot.We only book dj's with the integrity NOT to play boots etc.OV only.

That's us....like it or not.

Sorry to make this "personal" and off topic,but felt i needed to have my say.

kev in your avitar picture......is it a wig you're wearing?

[viphitman]

And not much of it has been booted so OVO generally not an issue.

Oh no! Lots of bootlegging going on from the early days! Apparantly the mob was 'investing' in those activities. Arnold Shaw (music executive & producer of R&B) wrote a fantastic book in 1978 about R&B ''Honkers and Shouters'' (from the blues craze of the 20#s until Billboard ceased publication of its R&B charts) Many records which went big in one part of the country would struggle to sell in another because of ''heavy bootlegging'' especially in the 50`s!!

'' It was heavy in those days -the bootleggers got me for another million. The reason I know is that in New Orleans the record wasn't selling. We couldn't figure it out. Everywhere else we had tremendous sales. The answer was the bootleggers were shipping it in from Chicago. The Mob had a setup in Chicago-they caught them at the time -in a great, big colonial house. It was stripped from basement to attic and loaded with records, coming in from Cincinnati by bus. It was not just my record, but everybody's label: Andy Williams and The Everly Brothers on Archie Bleyer's Label:Chess Records Columbia , Epic, youi name it. They were bootleggin everybody.''

Edited April 14, 2009 by viphitman

[KevH]

kev in your avitar picture......is it a wig you're wearing?

Yes,but its real hair.

[Guest outonthefloor]

How about if Dj's didnt play at venues where boots were played. Wouldnt that then police its self? Surely it tarnishes their name to be associated with the venues that condone it?

[Guest sarahleen]

for the benefit of some , and me actually . what exactly is a boot/pressing and why should we care ? im not being sarcastic by the way

Edited April 14, 2009 by sarahleen

[Guest Byrney]

Hi Byrney.Just a couple of points.

From the Attic (and possibly other soul nights point about pitching the nite),its difficult to pigeon hole what you're about nowadays.Is it Rare or is it Northern?.If you pitch as Rare,its not Rare enough for some.If you pitch as Northern,its not the Top 500,so you fall thru the net so to speak.

Other thing at the Attic..for those who know,, the decks are at floor level.Punters can come over anytime to chinstroke, debate,argue about labels,issues over demos,carvers even.What they won't see now is boots /pressings.

We never interfere with a guests spot.We only book dj's with the integrity NOT to play boots etc.OV only.

That's us....like it or not.

Sorry to make this "personal" and off topic,but felt i needed to have my say.

Hi Kev. Picked on the Attic and Burton as I know both your policies of integrity mate, without doubt you won't see pressings - sorry if that didn't come across mucker

Take your point on pitching your night, a nightmare since the emergence of the Nostalgia Scene in recent years but to me Rare Soul is Northern Soul, we never differentiated in the 70s and 80s: Searling, Butch, Kitch, Rob Marriot, Guy, Keb, Jim Wensiora, Colin Law, Ady etc etc were and in some cases still are Northern Soul Djs in my view.

Perhaps Jocko is right, maybe it's time to let the nostalgia scene have the Northern tag, even though they've done little to deserve it IMO.

Edited April 14, 2009 by Byrney

[Stevie]

for the benefit of some , and me actually . what exactly is a boot/pressing and why should we care ? im not being sarcastic by the way

Thank you - full circle achieved