Jamaican Soul Labels

[Guest TONY ROUNCE]

Continuing with the result from this morning's trawl through the realms of the 'still unsorted', some randomly-selected 60s and 70s Jamaican releases for you:

..and this one might not come out too well - silver print on a dark blue background is not my scanner's favourite! In case you can't read it, it;s the Temptations 'Mesage From A Black Man' which seems to be Ja. only on 45...]

enjoy!

Edited March 21, 2009 by TONY ROUNCE

[bri pinch]

CAN'T DO SCANS BUT THE ONLY THING I GOT ON JAMAICAN IS A JEAN WELLS 45, WITH MY LOVE AND WHAT YOU GOT ON STATESIDE.

BRI PINCH.

[dthedrug]

CAN'T DO SCANS BUT THE ONLY THING I GOT ON JAMAICAN IS A JEAN WELLS 45, WITH MY LOVE AND WHAT YOU GOT ON STATESIDE.

BRI PINCH.

Hi Tony I used to own a Jamaican press SUE Record same number as UK issue and same stamp matrix No Big Jay Mcneilly? however the label was RED & BLACK instead of RED & YELLOW and had a Dink-ed centre makes you wonder if there's a Jackie Day, I gave it to Mick S years ago, I got it from a small pile of records from Andrew in NOTTS the reggae importer, I have also seen a Jimmy Thomas on Jamaican Parlophone DAVE KIL

[Guest TONY ROUNCE]

Hi Tony I used to own a Jamaican press SUE Record same number as UK issue and same stamp matrix No Big Jay Mcneilly? however the label was RED & BLACK instead of RED & YELLOW and had a Dink-ed centre makes you wonder if there's a Jackie Day, I gave it to Mick S years ago, I got it from a small pile of records from Andrew in NOTTS the reggae importer, I have also seen a Jimmy Thomas on Jamaican Parlophone DAVE KIL

I did hear a rumour once that Jackie Day actually came out on Jamaican Modern. It's not infeasible - Coxsone Dodd was the licensor for Modern around that time, and I do have a copy of Arthur & Mary's "Let's Get Together" on a genuine Ja. Modern, which is only a few numbers away from "Before It's Too Late" and which I'l try to find and post up as I continue with this thread - but until I see visual evidence to the contrary, I'll file it under 'Urban Myth' I think.

The only Jamaican Parlophone 45 I have is the Beatles' "Ob-La-Di, Ob-La-Da"...

...but I do have quite a few Ja. Statesides somewhere, including the Equals' "Black Skin Blue Eyed Boys", Four Tops' "Ain't No Woman Like The One I Got" and James Carr's "These Ain't Raindrops". Again, as and when I find 'em, I'll stick scans up here...

[Mal C]

here's a good one..

M

[dthedrug]

I did hear a rumour once that Jackie Day actually came out on Jamaican Modern. It's not infeasible - Coxsone Dodd was the licensor for Modern around that time, and I do have a copy of Arthur & Mary's "Let's Get Together" on a genuine Ja. Modern, which is only a few numbers away from "Before It's Too Late" and which I'l try to find and post up as I continue with this thread - but until I see visual evidence to the contrary, I'll file it under 'Urban Myth' I think.

The only Jamaican Parlophone 45 I have is the Beatles' "Ob-La-Di, Ob-La-Da"...

...but I do have quite a few Ja. Statesides somewhere, including the Equals' "Black Skin Blue Eyed Boys", Four Tops' "Ain't No Woman Like The One I Got" and James Carr's "These Ain't Raindrops". Again, as and when I find 'em, I'll stick scans up here...

yes tony I have seen that its quite rare maybe its a differant lable but I am sure it exists I check with Jim S as for BSBEB what a great recored that I bout at the time of release eary ones have one of the greatist sleeves going the Black Man mouth open with blue eyes I would say that they are rare, the black man is a postman or a road sweeper from Enfield I am not making this up its true I tells you DAVE KIL

[Benji]

I used to have Roy Roberts - Got to have your love on JA Stateside, sorry no scan

[Guest TONY ROUNCE]

...another four for you, starting with Arthur & Mary as promised:

I may have put this one up here before - it's one of my 'desert island discs' (and the inspiration for the maytals' "Pressure Drop", incidentally:

...and to close for now, a couple of nice Al Green 45s that have no US or UK equivalent:

"Judy" being the same as Frank Howard of course - only better!

More later...

[Pete S]

I used to have Roy Roberts - Got to have your love on JA Stateside, sorry no scan

Me too. And Solomon King - This beautiful day on Columbia

[dthedrug]

Me too. And Solomon King - This beautiful day on Columbia

Solaman King thats what I meant to say? NOT Jimmy Thomas SOZ DAVE KIL

[bri pinch]

Solaman King thats what I meant to say? NOT Jimmy Thomas SOZ DAVE KIL

bit off topic, but got a soloman king on french somewhere knocking about.

BRI PINCH.

[Gene-r]

I did hear a rumour once that Jackie Day actually came out on Jamaican Modern. It's not infeasible - Coxsone Dodd was the licensor for Modern around that time, and I do have a copy of Arthur & Mary's "Let's Get Together" on a genuine Ja. Modern, which is only a few numbers away from "Before It's Too Late" and which I'l try to find and post up as I continue with this thread - but until I see visual evidence to the contrary, I'll file it under 'Urban Myth' I think.

It's true Tony - it does exist. I saw (and held) the copy that belonged to Lance Corbin in the early '80s. Lance was a mate of Dave Frickers who owned the House of Wax in Kentish Town, where I hung out regularly in the late '70s/early 80s.

[Liljimmycrank]

Ambelique - Talk like that.......Great modern tune, originaly released on Rag Town before being booted on Goldsoul

(Although i think the artist was Jamaican anyway so not sure if that counts for this topic)

[dthedrug]

Continuing with the result from this morning's trawl through the realms of the 'still unsorted', some randomly-selected 60s and 70s Jamaican releases for you:

..and this one might not come out too well - silver print on a dark blue background is not my scanner's favourite! In case you can't read it, it;s the Temptations 'Mesage From A Black Man' which seems to be Ja. only on 45...]

enjoy!

I was talking to my mate Jim Silles Sunday who is a very knowlagable in Jamacan music about this subject he recons that apart from EMI group of lables most of the JA soul sides are infact just almost boots and pressed up by the big producers in Kingston, he also was telling me about JA LPs on US fedral label not the JA label of the same name he did give me a list but at the mo I cant find it? DAVE KIL

[Guest TONY ROUNCE]

I was talking to my mate Jim Silles Sunday who is a very knowlagable in Jamacan music about this subject he recons that apart from EMI group of lables most of the JA soul sides are infact just almost boots and pressed up by the big producers in Kingston, he also was telling me about JA LPs on US fedral label not the JA label of the same name he did give me a list but at the mo I cant find it? DAVE KIL

I think that Jim might be thinking about Coxsone Dodd specifically, a man of highly dubious business practices throughout his career in music who kept some records in press for decades after his real licensing arrangements expired.

But as for the rest, anything pressed by 'Record Specialists' is pukka, ditto anything pressed by the Khouri family's Federal or Byron Lee's Dynamic Sounds in the 60s and 70s. (Although in respect of later Dynamic pressings, I'm not sure just how legit some of the black and white Atlantic labels are, but any of the red and white ones that look, at first glance, like American ones - and that were manufactured at the same time as the US releases - are definitely on the up and up).

Soul was huge in Jamaica in the late 60s and early 70s, much more so than reggae in fact. When I was out there for a relatively extended period in 1974, you heard very little else besides soul, country and a bit of 'easy listening' on the radio. Most of the big US labels had local licensing deals in place with one of the three aforementioned manuafacturers. Dodd, by the mid 70s, was just re-pressing things illegally from his long-expired licensing agreements with labels like Calla, Modern and Aladdin.

As I say, I can see where Jim's coming from, but "most of them are almost boots" might be a slight overstatement on his part. Certainly all of those I've posted up were issued under legitimate circumstances, even the rather amateur-looking Metromedia and Phil L.A. Of Soul 45s - examples of the legitimate work of Coxsone Dodd.

Edited March 24, 2009 by TONY ROUNCE

[Mal C]

Some years ago I had Jerry Williams - Run Run Roadrunner on Jamacian, only thing is it was on Calla, not Musicor, but had the Musicor cat numbers on it... since sold it on but an interesting one which relates to those 7ts boots you mention.

Mal

Edited March 26, 2009 by Mal.C.

[Benji]

bit off topic, but got a soloman king on french somewhere knocking about.

BRI PINCH.

nicked off my labelscan site:

Edited March 26, 2009 by Benji

[Guest TONY ROUNCE]

Some years ago I had Jerry Williams - Run Run Roadrunner on Jamacian, only thing is it was on Calla, not Musicor, but had the Musicor cat numbers on it... since sold it on but an interesting one which relates to those 7ts boots you mention.

Mal

There's also a Ja. boot of Jerry's "Baby Bunny (Sugar Honey)" from the mid 70s - again on Calla (as that one should be) but again with the Musicor catalogue numbers of "Run Run Roadrunner". All courtesy of Coxsone Dodd, both the most important producer and the biggest rip off merchant that Jamaican music has ever known...

[John Benson]

Came across this one the other day while looking for something else, it's not quite Jamaican, but sort of close :

Actually, it only states it on the other side - Made in Barbados

It's "All the heaven a man really needs"... and more

[45cellar]

Here's a VOLT from Jamaica. Interesting that they used Red & White.

JAMAICA :

[Guest TONY ROUNCE]

Here's a VOLT from Jamaica. Interesting that they used Red & White.

JAMAICA :

They also used black and white (same design) Rog' - I've got a copy of '(Sittin' On) The Dock Of The Bay' in those colours.

I also have a copy of 'Knock On Wood' on Jamaican Stax, which has red print on a white background.

Interestingly, when Stax moved on from being Atlantic-distributed the Jamaican Volt label went to the newer design (i.e. like the US 4000 series) but the Stax label releases tended to alternate between the old 'stack of records; design and the 'fingerclickin' in a box' design. There are considerably more Jamaican Stax releases that favour the older design than there are fingerclickers, which they only seemed to use for a short while in 1971 before going back to the older design.

Edited July 24, 2012 by TONY ROUNCE

[Roburt]

Lots of times, the Jamaican record company just photo-copied the US demo 45 (or LP) they were ent & printed up local labels from that.

If they had 100's of blank Stax labels printed off then they would use them till they ran out. Hence (I guess) old label designs being used there on later releases.

They would also photo-copy the LP covers they were forwarded from the US ... so (lots of the time) you got a Jamaican LP cover with a drill hole mark on theie un-holed LP cover).

[Guest TONY ROUNCE]

Lots of times, the Jamaican record company just photo-copied the US demo 45 (or LP) they were ent & printed up local labels from that.

If they had 100's of blank Stax labels printed off then they would use them till they ran out. Hence (I guess) old label designs being used there on later releases.

They would also photo-copy the LP covers they were forwarded from the US ... so (lots of the time) you got a Jamaican LP cover with a drill hole mark on theie un-holed LP cover).

...The words 'complete' and 'cobblers' come to mind here

I have or have seen - quite literally - hundreds, maybe even thousands of Jamaican pressed soul and pop 45s. Not one that i can recall falls into the 'photocopied label design' category.

'You Guess' that the old Stax design was the result of old labels being used. Doesn't explain why I have - among other configurations - Jamaican Stax 45s on black labels with silver print, on purple labels with silver print, on white labels with red print, yellow labels with yellow and/or mustard print etc. So your 'guess' would appear to be wrong, wouldn't it?

I've also seen hundreds of Jamaican-pressed albums and album sleeves. Not one of them has ever had a photocopy of a drill hole in the sleeve.

Is the heat getting to you today, or is this simply another case of someone trying to appear informed about something that they patently know little about?

[Roburt]

...The words 'complete' and 'cobblers' come to mind here

I have or have seen - quite literally - hundreds, maybe even thousands of Jamaican pressed soul and pop 45s. Not one that i can recall falls into the 'photocopied label design' category.

'You Guess' that the old Stax design was the result of old labels being used. Doesn't explain why I have - among other configurations - Jamaican Stax 45s on black labels with silver print, on purple labels with silver print, on white labels with red print, yellow labels with yellow and/or mustard print etc. So your 'guess' would appear to be wrong, wouldn't it?

I've also seen hundreds of Jamaican-pressed albums and album sleeves. Not one of them has ever had a photocopy of a drill hole in the sleeve.

Is the heat getting to you today, or is this simply another case of someone trying to appear informed about something that they patently know little about?

I used to visit Barbados on a regular basis & bought 100's of 45's there & dozens of LP's .... most pressed up by WIRL in Barbados but many were Jamaican releases.

Many of the LP's I bought that were Jamaican pressed, have a 'drill hole' mark in the top corners of the cover, most others I didn't bother to buy (coz they cost more than I was willing to pay at the time) were similar ..... so don't rubbish my comments when you obviously don't know what you're on about !!!!

Edited July 24, 2012 by Roburt

[Tricky]

Now now boys.I am enjoying the Source again lately as there are more interesting soul related topics being discussed instead of backbiting.

Tony and Roburt you both contribute to this site on a regular basis so Cut it out please.

[Kris Holmes]

would still love to see a pic of one of these r/w mad lads demos.....

[Guest TONY ROUNCE]

Now now boys.I am enjoying the Source again lately as there are more interesting soul related topics being discussed instead of backbiting.

Tony and Roburt you both contribute to this site on a regular basis so Cut it out please.

I do indeed contribute on a regular basis and I think you will find that most of my contributions can be backed up by facts rather than wildly inaccurate theorising of my own invention...

[jocko]

Now now boys.I am enjoying the Source again lately as there are more interesting soul related topics being discussed instead of backbiting.

Tony and Roburt you both contribute to this site on a regular basis so Cut it out please.

Big girls blouse!

[Roburt]

I do indeed contribute on a regular basis and I think you will find that most of my contributions can be backed up by facts rather than wildly inaccurate theorising of my own invention...

Another wildly inaccurate post from you Mr. Rounce.

I have better things to do (& am on the road at present) but if I have to (to convince you of the truth), I will sort out some of my Jamaican LP's with the ghost of hole marks in the covers, photo them & post them up here.

I really do have other things to do with my time though.

[Roburt]

We all know that Jamaican record releases leave much to be desired .........

... the usual Island belief that everything is best left till tomorrow was also adopted by local record company guys (& in the Caribbean, tomorrow never comes). So things sometimes got a little rushed & corners were cut ....

... if the vocalist went chasing female tourists, then any guy off the street would be pulled in to sing lead vocals.

... if the songwriter wasn't watching (maybe he was even an American), you added your name as the composer.

... if they were running out of vinyl (coz someone who was supposed to order it just had a spliff instead), they just added a few floor / road sweepings into the feed hopper of the pressing machines.

.... if the printed label supply ran out, you just used blank white labels & wrote or stamped on the release info.

BUT, hey, they did have some quality control. They knew someone from a US label might take an interest in what you were doing with their releases. So the quality control was upped for stuff licensed in from the States -- no hand written labels or kids rubber stamper would do here.

So US label designs were accurately transcribed by local graphic artists .... I mean that was much more professional than just copying a blank US label and printing up loads of them for use on a locally pressed 45.

So here's an example of a locally printed 45 label for a US soul track .... this one was licensed in from Atlantic.

I mean, if they had simply copied a US label, then you would see Atlantic's New York address (75 Rockefeller Plaza, New York) on the local release ....

[Roburt]

So its plain to see on the Jamaican Ben E King 45 that there is no mention at all for 75 Rockefeller Plaza, New York ....

you just get Dynamic Sounds 15 Bell Road address ....... hey, but am I right, can't really tell .........

[Roburt]

Ohh, well maybe just that once they ran out of time & just copied a US Atlantic label.

Bet it never happened for other US labels ......

No, I checked this one and all it shows is the 15 Bell Road address

...... no mention at all for Polydor's 810 7th Avenue, New York ....

[Roburt]

Whoops, guess that one was also pressed up on a Friday afternoon, when everyone had hit the rum & the quality control guy had fallen asleep.

But it can't have happened for many other US labels ........

Bet they wouldn't have chanced it with an Elektra label release .....

Edited July 26, 2012 by Roburt

[Roburt]

Heck, they gone & done it agin .....

But the guys up at Elektra's offices in NY & LA will never find out ....

... nobody buying the 45 will even know what the song title was, so how could they report which 45 was involved ...

Lets have a look at another local 45 licensed in from Atlantic .... this time they slightly moved the printing alignment for the local address

.... hey presto, you can't really tell this time that its another copy of a US 45 label ....

... well not if you've had a few rums or spliffs first anyway ....

Edited July 27, 2012 by Roburt

[Roburt]

Hey they fooled Epic / Columbia. Might just have copied a blank US 45 label, but at least they changed the colour to put everyone off the scent (& they didn't cover up the US trademark info) ....

And leaving a straight edge to the left side of the label was an added precaution ...

Edited July 26, 2012 by Roburt

[Roburt]

Seemed to work for the Epic stuff lads .....

.. how about we try it agin with a Columbia 45 .....

and we'll emphasis the fact that it's a stereo track by printing the Columbia logo in stereo ...

.... be sure to make one of the label edges straight agin though ...

& I'm sure nobody will notice that we ran of of letters in the usual font before we finished the local label info ....

.... after all its only 3 letters, a L, T and D.

Edited July 26, 2012 by Roburt

[Roburt]

Hey, lets copy a US Warners 45 label & use that on the next Larry Graham local release .....

... that's a good idea, where's the WB logo placed on the US 45 ???

Last time I looked it was at 10-o-clock, so be sure not to put any text there ...

[Roburt]

Hey, we've gotta put out George Dukes latest US 45 here .....

Well go press it up ..... we have some copies of US blank Epic labels.

JUST BE SURE its impossible to tell any difference between the US logo copyright line

and the adjacent ' Distributed in the Caribbean by Surrey Records Ltd' bit ...

... boss, rely on me, there woun't be the slightest difference .....

[Roburt]

Boss, we've got another problem. I've used all the blank MCA 45 labels up on the Bobby Womack single.

........ I've now pressed up some Rufus records !!!

Ahh, just use anything you can lay your hands on, nobody will be any the wiser ........

after all, a rainbow on a blue background ain't a very memorable design ...

[Kris Holmes]

those all look like pretty standard jamaican 45 labels from what i can tell, i really think you & tony are talking about different things here?

[Roburt]

OK, if this has just now become a thread about Jamaican 45's licensed in from the US ... here's a typical local effort .....

Start out with just a plain yellow label .... add a bit of text & a poor representation of the US label logo

... but make sure you print on the local distributors info ....

.... and then fix the label way off centre ensuring the edge colour doesn't stay round & that most of the local distributor data is totally lost ...

[45cellar]

All Interesting stuff, thought it better to split topic & merge with a similar one from 2009.

[45cellar]

I'm sure that someone Posted a copy of ROY HAMILTON "Cracking Up Over You" on Jamaican RCA a few years ago.

[Roburt]

Don't know if it's allowed to 'expand' the theme of this thread to 45's licensed in from the US but pressed up in Barbados.

Woun't post any Bajan 45 labels (may not be allowed here) but at least in Bridgetown that did know something about quality control.

The labels just about always look great & the vinyl actually plays without sticking, jumping, skipping, clicking or excessive surface noise.

[Roburt]

Another Jamaican Polydor label 45 ...... again they used a copy of the US Polydor label ....

... but this time they did their best to hide the fact by 'losing' the info off the edge of the label.

Just for info purposes as well, there's no black half record above the Polydor logo on this 45

(see the Jean Knight 45 I posted up earlier if you don't know what I mean here).

It seems they printed up this version of the Polydor US label at too large a scale, so removed the black half record bit as most of it would have disappeared off the label edge when fixed to the 45 .... that also appears to be the reason the US Polydor data also goes right off the edge of the bottom of the label.

[Roburt]

Got a Jamaican Stax copy of the Soul Children's "The Sweeter He Is" here somewhere ... but its not in either of my Caribbean 45 boxes so can't take a photo of it to post here at present. Its just black text (& logo) on a white label though (if I'm remembering correctly) & is on the old Stax logo (the pile of 45's).

The US version of this Soul Children single is however on the newer yellow label with the Stax 'finger snapping logo'.

[Roburt]

Two George Dukes now ... but from different US labels (but both Jamaican 45's appear to use copies of the US companies label as their start point).

[Roburt]

A George Duke 45 on Epic .....

[Roburt]

When I first visited the Caribbean (back around 1987), there were loads of 'unplayed' (impossible to say MINT as these were Jamaican pressings) copies of 1960's soul albums in the record shops (stuff like local copies of 1960's Chuck Jackson Wand LP's & similar items). The shops had more than one copy of these LP's and I assumed that they were 're-released' versions of original LP's that had been licensed & pressed up on the 'Islands' back when they were new release albums.

Knowing the way Jamaican's have always done things, I doubt they still held the license to press up these LP's in the mid to late 80's BUT that fact certainly hadn't stopped them doing so.

Quite a few of the 60's Atlantic 45's that were also turning up in local shops seemed a bit dubious too as the labels on these 45's looked almost identical to other Atlantic 45's (in the same racks) by artists such as the Persuaders, Kleer & Levert.

[TOAD]

i think your make things up on the above posts