Northern Soul Snob's

March 20, 2009

someone should knock up some SOUL SNOBS t-shirts,would make a killing(original material only).
could knock the fist & wigan casino t-shirts off top spot.

ps i want the first one free for the idea & to have the original.

Won't work. far to snobby to wear one, unless you get them knocked up bespoke on the 'row.

March 20, 2009

Apologies, it was a spur of the moment comment and a generalisation about quite a lot of DJs who I've heard both on and off the soul scene. As i've said a few times, I wouldn't dare to DJ a soul do, I don't have the records and will admit it. But where I do DJ I never repeat a set, never go in with a set list, and rely on my knowledge of whats on the 200 CDs I take (remember this ISN'T the soul scene so its not an offence!) to mix it up and hopefully fill the floor.

I suppose to a large extent I'm actually agreeing with a lot of what is said on this thread, I won't DJ on the soul scene because I could only put a decent set together using one form or another of 're-issue', BUT I'm not entirely convinced by the OVO argument.

If I went to a major event then I think I'd be disappointed not to get the real deal, but at the lower level local do I don't see a problem as long as there is no pretence about it.

Apology accepted :lol:

I never make a playlist. I have 3 or 4 tunes, probably newly acquired, that I want to play, but a set playlist? Get to the venue early, listen to what the others play to avoid repeats, if the DJ before you has the floor going, follow with a couple in the same vein before working in some mid-tempo etc, and leave the floor full for the next guy! If you play something they don't know and it clears the floor, follow it with something they do, but not a played out oldie! If the DJ before you has killed it, do the opposite, i.e. if he played too much mid-tempo, crank it up, too much 70's, stick on some 60's first! It's not rocket science, but some folk just don't get it. There isn't really a 'skill' to DJing, its just using that grey lump between your ears :lol:

I know the above works which is why I don't get panicky. An audience will go along with you, if you use the carrot and stick method to guide 'em towards what you want to get across. Unfortunatly some forget the carrot, and just beat 'em over the head with the stick

Ian Dewhirst · March 20, 2009

Apology accepted
I never make a playlist. I have 3 or 4 tunes, probably newly acquired, that I want to play, but a set playlist? Get to the venue early, listen to what the others play to avoid repeats, if the DJ before you has the floor going, follow with a couple in the same vein before working in some mid-tempo etc, and leave the floor full for the next guy! If you play something they don't know and it clears the floor, follow it with something they do, but not a played out oldie! If the DJ before you has killed it, do the opposite, i.e. if he played too much mid-tempo, crank it up, too much 70's, stick on some 60's first! It's not rocket science, but some folk just don't get it. There isn't really a 'skill' to DJing, its just using that grey lump between your ears
I know the above works which is why I don't get panicky. An audience will go along with you, if you use the carrot and stick method to guide 'em towards what you want to get across. Unfortunatly some forget the carrot, and just beat 'em over the head with the stick

And could you give us all some tips on DJ etiquette and DJ sartorial elegance whilst yer at it Trevski?

Ian D :lol:

Oldfeet · March 20, 2009

Over the decades of involvement with 'Northern Soul' it has been my real pleasure to meet so many wonderful, open, caring, funny, decent people.

At the same time the amount of snobbery involved from really great people can be eye opening at times.

The 'you never went to the Torch, so what do you know' style of snobbery.

The 'if it wasn't played in the 60's/70's its not proper Northern Soul' or the opposite 'if it was played out in the 60's/70's its no longer relevant', snobbery.

The 'I'll never play an unissued cd track no matter how brilliant the music is because its not on vinyl', snobbery.

The 'you've only got the 'national' release not the 'local' release', snobbery.

The 'he's wearing a vest, badges and baggies clown outfit', snobbery.

I really don't want to give the wrong impression that I think this is going on 100% of the time, it just crops up now and again and by and large I don't think the opinions are vindictive.

Maybe a little bit of 'snobbery' is good?

I'm just as guilty of 'snobbery' on occasion.

Personally, even with its faults, I've never found anything so rewarding as our 'scene', nor as many remarkable people but I can understand where the 'soul snobs' tag can arise.

March 20, 2009

If you are listening to records at home fair enough.

Anyone at a venue playing records to punters should be playing originals... or they shouldn't be up there.

Why? I'm the punter and I sure don't care. I would like it known here and now, to anyone who has a vast collection of Northern soul - or anything else that you think I might like to listen to - that I don't give a flying duck what format you're playing them from. I just wanna hear the music, and I'm the one paying the entrance fee to get in.

I was gonna put 'dance to' up there, but those days are gone; nowadays I might look up from me ginger beer and appreciatively tap a toe or two.

March 20, 2009

I can't believe what i'm hearing that it's ok to play boots as long as they've got a good DJ personality. It's not Radio 1

I think I might have to take you up on a point or two there.

One - Are there any personalities on R1? If there are I think we should be told.

Two - Why does everyone assume that the only alternative to original vinyl is a boot? I think you'll find that most of what's played on R1 is from CD (Although my ears suggest that they're starting to chuck in Mp3 nowadays, but might just be the DAB... ).

Godzilla · March 20, 2009

I think I might have to take you up on a point or two there.

One - Are there any personalities on R1? If there are I think we should be told.

Two - Why does everyone assume that the only alternative to original vinyl is a boot? I think you'll find that most of what's played on R1 is from CD (Although my ears suggest that they're starting to chuck in Mp3 nowadays, but might just be the DAB... ).

If you're going to take other people up on a couple of points, how about these:

Does Radio 1 really broadcast from CD? Reason I ask is that even my crappy local station is as far as I know programming its playlist fron CD onto their computer and broadcasting straight from that. And last time I went in there was about 10 years ago.

Secondly, my understanding is that most DAB broadcasts (including the beebs) are so compressed that you'd be hard pushed to distinguish CD from crappy old minidisc. If that's the case how are your ears telling you that one is CD and another is MP3?

I realise this is not directly related to the topic in question. It's just that you see lots of unqualified statements on this forum and sometimes it's handy to challenge them to separate facts informed by evidence from less informed opinions and beliefs.

Not having a personal knock JJMMWGDuPree, but do you facy clarifying?

Godz :lol:

March 21, 2009

I think I might have to take you up on a point or two there.

One - Are there any personalities on R1? If there are I think we should be told.

Two - Why does everyone assume that the only alternative to original vinyl is a boot? I think you'll find that most of what's played on R1 is from CD (Although my ears suggest that they're starting to chuck in Mp3 nowadays, but might just be the DAB... ).

Did i say the only alternative to originals are boots? No.

Did i say they played boots on Radio 1? No, that reference was to personalities.

By the way i'm also a punter and i do care what the format is and i don't just sit there tapping my toes either.

I can't believe i'm even bothering to explain... :ohmy:

March 21, 2009

If you're going to take other people up on a couple of points, how about these:
Does Radio 1 really broadcast from CD? Reason I ask is that even my crappy local station is as far as I know programming its playlist fron CD onto their computer and broadcasting straight from that. And last time I went in there was about 10 years ago.

Secondly, my understanding is that most DAB broadcasts (including the beebs) are so compressed that you'd be hard pushed to distinguish CD from crappy old minidisc. If that's the case how are your ears telling you that one is CD and another is MP3?

I realise this is not directly related to the topic in question. It's just that you see lots of unqualified statements on this forum and sometimes it's handy to challenge them to separate facts informed by evidence from less informed opinions and beliefs.

Not having a personal knock JJMMWGDuPree, but do you facy clarifying?

Godz

Running from computer 10 years ago? Hell's bells, that's last century! I didn't know computers had the welly to run a radio station back then. I sure as heck wouldn't want to trust Windows 98 to run a radio station, but I guess a Unix box might have been able to do it. Have you any idea what OS they were using? I'm almost certain that it would have to be a terminal running from a mainframe rather than a standalone computer back then. It might have been a RiscPC at a stretch I guess, but I'm thinking that if it looked like a regular Windows machine it was probably actually running Soloris on top of Unix.

Mind you, if, by your crappy little local station you mean a commercial station then I wouldn't know, I never listen to them, but I can tell you that my local BBC station runs on vinyl and CD, mainly CD. I believe they still have a Minidisc player or two gathering dust (Instead of giving them to someone who could use them, like, er, me...) What've you got against MD by the way? To me it was the best of the lossy compressors, although I guess Ogg could give it a good run for it's money nowadays. I don't often listen to Radio 1 either, but occasionally I'm forced to when my car radio tunes into R1 news for some reason. I believe if you listen you can occasionally hear the DJs loading up CDs as they speak, turn to Radio 2 and you can quite often hear Chris Evans doing it. Makes you wonder what they were doing durning the last record when they should have been queueing up the next one.

Truth is if push comes to shove I really have no idea if R1 runs from CD, but there's one more thing that makes me think it does. The record companies still send them promos on CD. If it ran from computer then surely they'd just squirt them an Mp3 or FLAC through the email?

All DAB is CTF, although my latest DAB radio has a button that purportedly can halve or completely switch off the compression. To me at least it doesn't sound very real, I think it's really a decompressor, but as for how can I really tell? How would I know? Some people can identify analogue form digital because they can hear the digital 'edge'. To me that doesn't seem possible, but don't you ever hear something and just think "There's something not right about that"? I'm not talking about high sample rate Mp3s here, those could fly past me and I probably wouldn't blink, but at lower sample rates... Have you ever listened to Northern Soul Radio on Live365? Doesn't it sound sort of 'empty' to you? I hear music that I know and yet somehow it just sounds wrong, it's not scientific, it's just that feeling that something ain't quite right, then you listen to the soul shows on iplayer from Radio Oxford or Cambridge and the sound thickens up again somehow.

Let's face it, there must be other people who can give you a proper (and much shorter) explanation for the way different people experience the same things, all I can say is every now and then I hear something and think 'That's an Mp3'. I don't know why, it just sounds like one. :ohmy:

March 21, 2009

Running from computer 10 years ago? Hell's bells, that's last century! I didn't know computers had the welly to run a radio station back then. I sure as heck wouldn't want to trust Windows 98 to run a radio station, but I guess a Unix box might have been able to do it. Have you any idea what OS they were using? I'm almost certain that it would have to be a terminal running from a mainframe rather than a standalone computer back then. It might have been a RiscPC at a stretch I guess, but I'm thinking that if it looked like a regular Windows machine it was probably actually running Soloris on top of Unix.

Mind you, if, by your crappy little local station you mean a commercial station then I wouldn't know, I never listen to them, but I can tell you that my local BBC station runs on vinyl and CD, mainly CD. I believe they still have a Minidisc player or two gathering dust (Instead of giving them to someone who could use them, like, er, me...) What've you got against MD by the way? To me it was the best of the lossy compressors, although I guess Ogg could give it a good run for it's money nowadays. I don't often listen to Radio 1 either, but occasionally I'm forced to when my car radio tunes into R1 news for some reason. I believe if you listen you can occasionally hear the DJs loading up CDs as they speak, turn to Radio 2 and you can quite often hear Chris Evans doing it. Makes you wonder what they were doing durning the last record when they should have been queueing up the next one.

Truth is if push comes to shove I really have no idea if R1 runs from CD, but there's one more thing that makes me think it does. The record companies still send them promos on CD. If it ran from computer then surely they'd just squirt them an Mp3 or FLAC through the email?

All DAB is CTF, although my latest DAB radio has a button that purportedly can halve or completely switch off the compression. To me at least it doesn't sound very real, I think it's really a decompressor, but as for how can I really tell? How would I know? Some people can identify analogue form digital because they can hear the digital 'edge'. To me that doesn't seem possible, but don't you ever hear something and just think "There's something not right about that"? I'm not talking about high sample rate Mp3s here, those could fly past me and I probably wouldn't blink, but at lower sample rates... Have you ever listened to Northern Soul Radio on Live365? Doesn't it sound sort of 'empty' to you? I hear music that I know and yet somehow it just sounds wrong, it's not scientific, it's just that feeling that something ain't quite right, then you listen to the soul shows on iplayer from Radio Oxford or Cambridge and the sound thickens up again somehow.

Let's face it, there must be other people who can give you a proper (and much shorter) explanation for the way different people experience the same things, all I can say is every now and then I hear something and think 'That's an Mp3'. I don't know why, it just sounds like one.

Hi guys yes they still use cds as well as md and believe it or not sometimes tapes but we also use computers its called Myriad system and is a broadcasting programme designed for the job and you can use wm format or mp3 to load and play ,we also have a vinyl deck in studio 2 so really we use whatever we want , But truthfully if you are in the studio you are gonna use the easiest and quikest method to get the show out , especialy if you broadcast live ,as far as we are concerned it doesnt matter cause we are just trying to provide a service ,at least when the internet connection is working properly ,yes you can hear a difference and again it comes down to practical things cause if you use vinyl and it is hissing and crackling whilst being played you can be sure someone will call and tell you so we cant win !

Ian Parker · March 21, 2009

Why? I'm the punter and I sure don't care. I would like it known here and now, to anyone who has a vast collection of Northern soul - or anything else that you think I might like to listen to - that I don't give a flying duck what format you're playing them from. I just wanna hear the music, and I'm the one paying the entrance fee to get in.

I wanna shake your hand, most sensible post on the entire thread and im in agreement

March 21, 2009

Did i say the only alternative to originals are boots? No.

Did i say they played boots on Radio 1? No, that reference was to personalities.

By the way i'm also a punter and i do care what the format is and i don't just sit there tapping my toes either.

I can't believe i'm even bothering to explain...

What you said was

I can't believe what i'm hearing that it's ok to play boots as long as they've got a good DJ personality. It's not Radio 1

That was it, the whole paragraph. As far as I can see the subject of sentence one is boots with particular reference to DJ personalities, the subject of the second is Radio 1. So taking intro account that the subject of the thread is OVO snobbery I made what seems to me to be a logical conclusion. That unlike Radio 1, it is not all right to play boots at a northern soul gig. Now if you can tell me what it was supposed to say then go ahead, but I don't see that I can draw any other conclusions from what you have written.

In fact that original vinyl or boots thing wasn't aimed only at you. You were simply the last in a long line of posters who've simply assumed that if you're not playing the original vinyl then you must be playing a boot. You could in fact be playing a legit reissue, the UK release, the album version of the track, a CD, an Mp3/FLAC/Ogg file, or indeed Minidisc or tape. My point was simply why do so many people assume that the only alternative to original vinyl is a boot or a carver (What is a carver anyway? Is it what we used to call a shaver?).

I'm relieved, if a little surprised, to see that you can hear the difference between original vinyl and any other format, maybe you can do a better job that me of explaining to Godzilla how you can hear the difference between formats.

I'm glad to hear that you can still get up and dance, but it's not exactly a competition is it? I damaged my hearing by playing to TOO MUCH LOUD MUSIC, and I damaged my knee by being a bit of a rissole on a charity bike ride. I can still dance but I'd need the volume turning down and I'd be dancing like yer dad, and no one wants to subject others to that. :thumbup:

Godzilla · March 21, 2009

Running from computer 10 years ago? Hell's bells, that's last century! I didn't know computers had the welly to run a radio station back then. I sure as heck wouldn't want to trust Windows 98 to run a radio station, but I guess a Unix box might have been able to do it. Have you any idea what OS they were using? I'm almost certain that it would have to be a terminal running from a mainframe rather than a standalone computer back then. It might have been a RiscPC at a stretch I guess, but I'm thinking that if it looked like a regular Windows machine it was probably actually running Soloris on top of Unix.

Mind you, if, by your crappy little local station you mean a commercial station then I wouldn't know, I never listen to them, but I can tell you that my local BBC station runs on vinyl and CD, mainly CD. I believe they still have a Minidisc player or two gathering dust (Instead of giving them to someone who could use them, like, er, me...) What've you got against MD by the way? To me it was the best of the lossy compressors, although I guess Ogg could give it a good run for it's money nowadays. I don't often listen to Radio 1 either, but occasionally I'm forced to when my car radio tunes into R1 news for some reason. I believe if you listen you can occasionally hear the DJs loading up CDs as they speak, turn to Radio 2 and you can quite often hear Chris Evans doing it. Makes you wonder what they were doing durning the last record when they should have been queueing up the next one.

Truth is if push comes to shove I really have no idea if R1 runs from CD, but there's one more thing that makes me think it does. The record companies still send them promos on CD. If it ran from computer then surely they'd just squirt them an Mp3 or FLAC through the email?

All DAB is CTF, although my latest DAB radio has a button that purportedly can halve or completely switch off the compression. To me at least it doesn't sound very real, I think it's really a decompressor, but as for how can I really tell? How would I know? Some people can identify analogue form digital because they can hear the digital 'edge'. To me that doesn't seem possible, but don't you ever hear something and just think "There's something not right about that"? I'm not talking about high sample rate Mp3s here, those could fly past me and I probably wouldn't blink, but at lower sample rates... Have you ever listened to Northern Soul Radio on Live365? Doesn't it sound sort of 'empty' to you? I hear music that I know and yet somehow it just sounds wrong, it's not scientific, it's just that feeling that something ain't quite right, then you listen to the soul shows on iplayer from Radio Oxford or Cambridge and the sound thickens up again somehow.

Let's face it, there must be other people who can give you a proper (and much shorter) explanation for the way different people experience the same things, all I can say is every now and then I hear something and think 'That's an Mp3'. I don't know why, it just sounds like one.

Well, I asked for clarification :lol:

Actually well done. I needed a reminder not to make pompous sounding posts after Friday tea time drinkies and your reply has done just that. For the record though (ahem!), I don't listen to local radio either. When I was in the offices of Yorkshire Coast Radio (known as Radio Barlow to our mates - it's that exciting), it was to promote some event or other. They were really proud to tell me that whole shows had a playlist loaded up onto the PC and ready to go. As a mac boy I just saw off-white boxes and didn't have a clue what systems they used and wasn't really interested. It just seemed pretty soulless even for that outfit. Last time I listed to Radio 1 was in the days of John Peel and he definitely used vinyl. Wasn't sure what the score was these days but Mrs G assures me that the younger DJs play band's demos, as you say, so I guess that means CDs.

As for mini-disc, well maybe I just never got to grips with it. When I had one the quality alawys sounded roughly comaparable with a good compact cassette but not much better. Possibly I had it set up wrong. Just didn't get on with it anyhow. I haven't bought a digital radio yet as don't get much beyond Radio 4 these days and find that FM is acceptable for that. Did listen to some stuff on a pal's DAB though and thought it sounded really thin - not even up to FM standard. Again maybe he needed to tweak stuff. Wouldn't tempt me for listening to Woman's Hour though.

Finally cheers for the words Ogg and Soloris. No idea what they mean but I suspect they may have been characters in Lord of the Rings? Either way, makes a change from OVO vs boots so ta again for the info. :thumbup:

Edited March 21, 2009 by Godzilla

March 21, 2009

What you said was

That was it, the whole paragraph. As far as I can see the subject of sentence one is boots with particular reference to DJ personalities, the subject of the second is Radio 1. So taking intro account that the subject of the thread is OVO snobbery I made what seems to me to be a logical conclusion. That unlike Radio 1, it is not all right to play boots at a northern soul gig. Now if you can tell me what it was supposed to say then go ahead, but I don't see that I can draw any other conclusions from what you have written.

In fact that original vinyl or boots thing wasn't aimed only at you. You were simply the last in a long line of posters who've simply assumed that if you're not playing the original vinyl then you must be playing a boot. You could in fact be playing a legit reissue, the UK release, the album version of the track, a CD, an Mp3/FLAC/Ogg file, or indeed Minidisc or tape. My point was simply why do so many people assume that the only alternative to original vinyl is a boot or a carver (What is a carver anyway? Is it what we used to call a shaver?).

I'm relieved, if a little surprised, to see that you can hear the difference between original vinyl and any other format, maybe you can do a better job that me of explaining to Godzilla how you can hear the difference between formats.

I'm glad to hear that you can still get up and dance, but it's not exactly a competition is it? I damaged my hearing by playing to TOO MUCH LOUD MUSIC, and I damaged my knee by being a bit of a rissole on a charity bike ride. I can still dance but I'd need the volume turning down and I'd be dancing like yer dad, and no one wants to subject others to that.

Amazing, you misunderstood my first post and you managed to misunderstand my reply as well. It is possible to make reference to two separate ideas within the same sentence and make reference to the latter point without misunderstanding. It reads fine to me and it's obvious really the reference was to personality. You 'logocally' thought i was referring to boots played on Radio 1? :lol: The fact that you couldn't grasp my original meaning is your problem not mine.

I didn't say anything about hearing the difference between originals and vinyl in my reply either. I simply said, "By the way i'm also a punter and i do care what the format is and i don't just sit there tapping my toes either". If i'm at an allnighter or an OVO event i expect original vinyl, if it's not one of those events i know i can expect CDs, reissues, whatever... I don't care what format none OVO events and nighters play. That's their choice but i still attend.

You've got a bit of a gift for getting the wrong end of the stick and i also find your penultimate sentence unnecessarily patronising to be honest. I won't bother explaining myself again. This thread has gone down the same old argument and has become pointless for me with people misunderstanding and misrepresenting the OVO argument as usual.

Edited March 21, 2009 by Matt Male

Ian Dewhirst · March 21, 2009

LOL, what did we expect with a thread entitled 'Northern Soul Snobs'. :thumbup:

I detest snobs in real life because most of 'em are arrogant prats who couldn't have a good time if they tried.

But I don't seem to mind Northern Soul Snobs for some reason. It must be the elite training we go through or something.......... :lol:

Ian D :lol:

March 21, 2009

People who slag you off if your not playing of an original record because its a second issue total tossers.
I remember some years ago when I was 15/16 just getting into northern down at a soul do in Birmingham. I was just starting to collect records and I was talking to this older fella about it I think he was pissed and he said to me ( unless yer payin over £ 100 pound for records you dont know what your on about ) looking back what a total DICK

He was a total dick, cos thee are thousands of great tunes that cost a tenner. BUT you shouldnt be djing with second issues. Play em at home and leave the djing to the ones who show it respect. I pay to go into a venue with 'real money' and expect 'real' records not some half arsed guy having a stab at djing with second issues (sound quality can be very bad on these) or boots....

What I ment by it was that you dont have to pay a lot of money for good records. Like I said. I started when I was 15/16 getting into the northern scene I'm 27 now and still love it at the time I did it of my own back because Its was amazing music and It makes you feel something you cant explain. No body showed me what was what record wise I'am still collecting now and have buit up the knowledge but I'm still learning everybody is. I dont just collect northern I collect ska reggae blue eyed soul across the board and I will be the first to admit I have played of second issues when I have DJ I have originals issue's of records and yes it is nice to try and get it on a first issue if you can if I see a second issue of say lou pride. I cant afford a real one I will get it on that I think its better getting it on that than say on a goldmine etc or until you can find a real one . But now I am older I do pay a bit more for records because I can afford it the most I have payed for a 45 is 100 pound and thats my limit but I wont do that often. I can understand if your going to a nighter and yes you do want to here ovo you've payed good money as for the local night one a month I dont think it matters however I dont agree with people playing cd's or mp3's thats just real rubbish. I suppose everybody can be a northern soul snob in some shape or form lets just all enjoy the music because its better than what the none belivers listen too. :lol:

March 21, 2009

What I ment by it was that you dont have to pay a lot of money for good records. Like I said. I started when I was 15/16 getting into the northern scene I'm 27 now and still love it at the time I did it of my own back because Its was amazing music and It makes you feel something you cant explain. No body showed me what was what record wise I'am still collecting now and have buit up the knowledge but I'm still learning everybody is. I dont just collect northern I collect ska reggae blue eyed soul across the board and I will be the first to admit I have played of second issues when I have DJ I have originals issue's of records and yes it is nice to try and get it on a first issue if you can if I see a second issue of say lou pride. I cant afford a real one I will get it on that I think its better getting it on that than say on a goldmine etc or until you can find a real one . But now I am older I do pay a bit more for records because I can afford it the most I have payed for a 45 is 100 pound and thats my limit but I wont do that often. I can understand if your going to a nighter and yes you do want to here ovo you've payed good money as for the local night one a month I dont think it matters however I dont agree with people playing cd's or mp3's thats just real rubbish. I suppose everybody can be a northern soul snob in some shape or form lets just all enjoy the music because its better than what the none belivers listen too.

March 21, 2009

I reckon I am a snob, in a good way, as for years I have been spoilt by my friends, DJ's, playing the best records and 6T's newies I love to hear.

Now alot of the records I want to hear out, some I own, I rarely hear them, so I get frustrated. But on the other hand I can hear all what I want indoors!

March 21, 2009

As for mini-disc, well maybe I just never got to grips with it. When I had one the quality alawys sounded roughly comaparable with a good compact cassette but not much better. Possibly I had it set up wrong. Just didn't get on with it anyhow. I haven't bought a digital radio yet as don't get much beyond Radio 4 these days and find that FM is acceptable for that. Did listen to some stuff on a pal's DAB though and thought it sounded really thin - not even up to FM standard. Again maybe he needed to tweak stuff. Wouldn't tempt me for listening to Woman's Hour though.

Finally cheers for the words Ogg and Soloris. No idea what they mean but I suspect they may have been characters in Lord of the Rings? Either way, makes a change from OVO vs boots so ta again for the info.

:lol: I came to Minidisc very late in the game, in fact I think my buying one was the signal for Sony to drop the format. I've heard disparaging remarks about it from other early users and a quick browse (?! ) through Wikipedia reveals that you're probably right. The original machines didn't score very well in listening tests at all, but I think mine uses ATRAC 'R' which, while it doesn't mean much to me, does kinda suggest that there may have been versions A to Q before they finished up with mine.

DAB is absolute crap, it doesn't match up to FM in any way apart from the number of channels they can cram onto the waveband, and that, of course, is why the big switchover will eventually happen. I'd advise anyone against buying a DAB machine (I won mine. They're that desperate to get them in circulation... :shades: ) because all they'd be doing is bringing the day of the big switch closer.

Ogg is a music file format like Mp3 but it's not owned by anyone so big business doesn't like it. In theory the owners of the Mp3 code could start demanding payment for it just like the owners of the GIF and JPEG copyrights did. In my Wikipedia search I did notice that in the most recent tests Ogg scores better than Mp3, and the W3C (The guys who make the rules that run the internet... In theory) want all websites to haveOgg built in, so maybe you'll hear more of it in the future. Solaris, aside from being a pretty good movie, is the name of Sun's operating system. They released the code into the wild a year or so ago so now you can have the same OS that runs the Sun empire in your own gaff!

Flip neck, I did it again. I wish I didn't write such b!@@&y long replies... :lol:

March 23, 2009

i wouldn't let one of those near my vinyl the hardened faces won't do the vinyl any good unless you have a soft touch (i don't and i use one of those every day of my working life ...an old school one of course )

in fact we often call them precision G-Clamps

DD, I'm surprised at you....any soul snob knows to carefully line the faces with expensive, hand crafted pieces of African Horn goat's skin. That way their precious vinyl won't get scuffed when the precision G-Clamp came in contact with the record's surface :thumbsup:

March 23, 2009

Just want to clear up one of my earlier posts as not to contradict myself, I said that I asked if I could plug an i-pod in to the system or play some CDs at the venue, when I said I only play OV. I had only said this to provoke a reaction with the organiser at what he calls drawing the line on formats. There can be some even more inventive ways to use a vinyl carver than to play it out! (see photo)

Maark · March 23, 2009

For soul snob t-shirts.......

https://www.cafepress.com/SoulSnob

March 25, 2009

also can i add that a lot of radio stations use computer systems to play music yet they might keep CD's in case it all goes tits up

Plus some stations still have vinyl record so if they don't have anything on cd and only on vinyl they can play it. especially on specialist shows. although sadly some stations do get rid of vinyl record players

Andy Barnes used to a soul show on LITE FM here and he played all CD's yet said would loved to have played his vinyl too or add them to a mini disc for easy play but they had no vinyl record player

March 25, 2009

Apology accepted
I never make a playlist. I have 3 or 4 tunes, probably newly acquired, that I want to play, but a set playlist? Get to the venue early, listen to what the others play to avoid repeats, if the DJ before you has the floor going, follow with a couple in the same vein before working in some mid-tempo etc, and leave the floor full for the next guy! If you play something they don't know and it clears the floor, follow it with something they do, but not a played out oldie! If the DJ before you has killed it, do the opposite, i.e. if he played too much mid-tempo, crank it up, too much 70's, stick on some 60's first! It's not rocket science, but some folk just don't get it. There isn't really a 'skill' to DJing, its just using that grey lump between your ears
I know the above works which is why I don't get panicky. An audience will go along with you, if you use the carrot and stick method to guide 'em towards what you want to get across. Unfortunatly some forget the carrot, and just beat 'em over the head with the stick

OK Trevski well said...been folowing this OVO debate(as in the past) with some amusement.DJs are by defention entertainers and are playing to a crowd that have paid good money to BE entertained.

Horses for courses -if a venue is advertised as 'Rare Soul' (and we all know what the implication of those two words are among us) it is to be expected that Rare Soul OVO is played. If a venue is advertised,whether directy or implication,as a night of 'Across the Board Northern & Motown' take it as that and don't give it a thought(I was gonna say shit...but thought better of it) about what format it's on,,,'Dance, Converse,React...enjoy life as it is....elitism does not make the masses happy,nor motivate 'the young un's' into,lets face, it an ageing community of Soul lovers.

I would reply 'guilty' to the Soul Police as charged,if they confronted me, of playing reissues etc.BUT I have entertained ...by my above definition.There is nothing like the thrill..satisfaction and sometimes ecstacy of owning an original issue of a record...heigtened if it is a demo or some other particular distiction....if you like it that way be happy and if you want to share it as such with like minded souls and others who are happy to be enlightened...no matter what format...consider it a job well done.. KTF...spread the word...Keep Soul alive... whichever way we choose.

PS do these 'Soul Snobs' (not my words) ever consider the fact that when they pay £1000 for a record there's absoutley no chance of that artist getting a cent of that money?...there is under licencing agreements of the likes of Goldmine etc getting some of revenue back to the artist/estates of the performer....or am I being naive?.

PPS....playlists.. often pre-prepare them...never stick to em...I go with the flow of the night.

Dave Rimmer · March 26, 2009

PS do these 'Soul Snobs' (not my words) ever consider the fact that when they pay £1000 for a record there's absoutley no chance of that artist getting a cent of that money?...there is under licencing agreements of the likes of Goldmine etc getting some of revenue back to the artist/estates of the performer....or am I being naive?.

Very naive.

If you buy a second hand car, how much of that money goes to Ford or Vauxhall ?

If you repair that car with counterfeit parts, how much of that money goes to Ford or Vauxhall ?

Joto · March 26, 2009

if you want to listen to it , get an mp3 , if you want to dj with it leave it on your wants list

and if i just want to dance to it ??? :rolleyes:

Done my time on the scene, travelled 1000s of miles over decades, paid my dues as a punter over and over again, Never ever asked a dj what format it was on, makes no difference at all to me. END OF

March 26, 2009

Very naive.

If you buy a second hand car, how much of that money goes to Ford or Vauxhall ?

If you repair that car with counterfeit parts, how much of that money goes to Ford or Vauxhall ?

thanks Dave for clearing that up for me. :lol:

i did wonder how the argument about royalties to the artists came into defending OV :rolleyes: ive read a few threads with the same debate and inevatalbly somone throws in that buying boots/carvers does the artists out of money. i could never work out the logic to that argument

March 26, 2009

PS do these 'Soul Snobs' (not my words) ever consider the fact that when they pay £1000 for a record

Personally i dont think they are "Soul Snobs" they are the people who are avid about the music, any clown

can play of CDs, Boots etc.

Iv'e got hundreds of em, im not rushing out to start up a venue though, slapping me cronies on the back.

Saying great nite mate, see you at yours next week!! You come to my do and i'll attend yours syndrome.

IMHO a "Soul Snob" is someone who attends venues wanting to hear the same old,same old. When they

dont get there way, ball the promotors or DJs out (usually on the other end of a telephone) Or if theres

a few more open minded people in the room and people are dancing to something a little different pick

up there bags and other accessories and disappear into the sunset.

Dolly13 · March 26, 2009

Personally i dont think they are "Soul Snobs" they are the people who are avid about the music, any clown
can play of CDs, Boots etc.
Iv'e got hundreds of em, im not rushing out to start up a venue though, slapping me cronies on the back.
Saying great nite mate, see you at yours next week!! You come to my do and i'll attend yours syndrome.
IMHO a "Soul Snob" is someone who attends venues wanting to hear the same old,same old. When they
dont get there way, ball the promotors or DJs out (usually on the other end of a telephone) Or if theres
a few more open minded people in the room and people are dancing to something a little different pick
up there bags and other accessories and disappear into the sunset.

Edited March 26, 2009 by dollynormal1

March 26, 2009

Was talking to a female friend last week end and she used the term 'Northern Soul Snobs'ever heard it and what do you think it means?

I dont know what you mean old bean, what what !!! joly good show and all that.

Now weres my smokin jacket and pipe, im off hunting on ebay for a rare 45 :rolleyes:

Pete Griff

March 26, 2009

Personally i dont think they are "Soul Snobs" they are the people who are avid about the music, any clown
can play of CDs, Boots etc.
Iv'e got hundreds of em, im not rushing out to start up a venue though, slapping me cronies on the back.
Saying great nite mate, see you at yours next week!! You come to my do and i'll attend yours syndrome.
IMHO a "Soul Snob" is someone who attends venues wanting to hear the same old,same old. When they
dont get there way, ball the promotors or DJs out (usually on the other end of a telephone) Or if theres
a few more open minded people in the room and people are dancing to something a little different pick
up there bags and other accessories and disappear into the sunset.

....and that doesn't happen with some of the OVO DJ's/promotors :rolleyes:

March 26, 2009

Very naive.

If you buy a second hand car, how much of that money goes to Ford or Vauxhall ?

If you repair that car with counterfeit parts, how much of that money goes to Ford or Vauxhall ?

Ford or Vauxhall got there 'dues' at the point of sale...many of the artists didn't...that's the difference.

soulperson · March 26, 2009

Ford or Vauxhall got there 'dues' at the point of sale...many of the artists didn't...that's the difference.

nice answer,sue

Russ Vickers · March 26, 2009

Ford or Vauxhall got there 'dues' at the point of sale...many of the artists didn't...that's the difference.

What a load of bollocks :unsure: ..........sorry but just cant be bothered with a long drawn out reply...........!!!

Russ

March 26, 2009

What a load of bollocks ..........sorry but just cant be bothered with a long drawn out reply...........!!!

Russ

nice answer, Russ

March 26, 2009

.

Edited March 26, 2009 by mikecook

March 26, 2009

Ford or Vauxhall got there 'dues' at the point of sale...many of the artists didn't...that's the difference.

Oh Good God Almighty, how pious, when the artist recorded their single they either made money or they didn't, market forces and all that, when donkeys years later I buy a record I pay my money to the person that has it, I believe the kudos associated with the music transcends money. When a company i.e. KENT/ACE produces a vinyl or cd compilation then I know for a fact they try their utmost to pay artist royalties wherever possible, but they produce a product for general release (and I believe to reep some market sales and make a few quid along the way) When an individual buys a record from someone else should he then be racked by guilt that some long forgotten soul hasn't received a penny of that deal....OF COURSE NOT (I REFRAIN FROM SWEARING.BECAUSE I'VE BEEN WARNED BY THE IN HOUSE TEAM) it doesn't mean I don't want those individuals to be given the correct respect years later (via appearances in this country and due revenue from mass cd sales etc) but please do me a favour we all have a living to earn, when I do a job I get paid once PERIOD .Be it a good wage or a poor one.

Edited March 26, 2009 by Brett F

Russ Vickers · March 26, 2009

Oh Good God Almighty, how pious, when the artist recorded their single they either made money or they didn't, market forces and all that, when donkeys years later I buy a record I pay my money to the person that has it, I believe the kudos associated with the music transcends money. When a company i.e. KENT/ACE produces a vinyl or cd compilation then I know for a fact they try their utmost to pay artist royalties wherever possible, but they produce a product for general release (and I believe to reep some market sales and make a few quid along the way) When an individual buys a record from someone else should he then be racked by guilt that some long forgotten soul hasn't received a penny of that deal....OF COURSE NOT (I REFRAIN FROM SWEARING.BECAUSE I'VE BEEN WARNED BY THE IN HOUSE TEAM) it doesn't mean I don't want those individuals to be given the correct respect years later (via appearances in this country and due revenue from mass cd sales etc) but please do me a favour we all have a living to earn, when I do a job I get paid once PERIOD .Be it a good wage or a poor one.

Wish I had wrote that............bad day, thanks for so eloquently putting what I should have :unsure:

Russ

March 27, 2009

....and that doesn't happen with some of the OVO DJ's/promotors

Not saying it doesn't happen, all over the scene Mike

Far to many venues, to few punters? We've been down this road before to

I myself, personally, would sooner go to a venue where i can hear an underplayed or new toon to my ears.

Than one played of a boot, which i could easily pull out of my collection at home :unsure:

After all mate, think the reason we got into this in the first place, was the fact it was a rare,underground

scene.

Best

Paul

March 27, 2009

Not saying it doesn't happen, all over the scene Mike
Far to many venues, to few punters? We've been down this road before to
I myself, personally, would sooner go to a venue where i can hear an underplayed or new toon to my ears.
Than one played of a boot, which i could easily pull out of my collection at home
After all mate, think the reason we got into this in the first place, was the fact it was a rare,underground
scene.

Best
Paul

Some of the problems lie in the new media we have at our fingertips, if say someone wants to air time a new discovery by puttting it on Refo Soul Source, they do not sometimes realise that the rare track can then be recorded using Nero trax editor then shiped straight to the vinyl carvers via e-mail. I advise you people with rare acetates or mega hard recs to watch out for this method.

March 30, 2009

They have even got their own badge.....

FIST ME!!!

Have the t-shirts sold well? - coz the person selling/designing them is insulting the folk who have kept the the scene going through sheer etiquette!!!! which in turn gives them a scene to slag those hero's off in.

March 31, 2009

Oh Good God Almighty, how pious, when the artist recorded their single they either made money or they didn't, market forces and all that, when donkeys years later I buy a record I pay my money to the person that has it, I believe the kudos associated with the music transcends money. When a company i.e. KENT/ACE produces a vinyl or cd compilation then I know for a fact they try their utmost to pay artist royalties wherever possible, but they produce a product for general release (and I believe to reep some market sales and make a few quid along the way) When an individual buys a record from someone else should he then be racked by guilt that some long forgotten soul hasn't received a penny of that deal....OF COURSE NOT (I REFRAIN FROM SWEARING.BECAUSE I'VE BEEN WARNED BY THE IN HOUSE TEAM) it doesn't mean I don't want those individuals to be given the correct respect years later (via appearances in this country and due revenue from mass cd sales etc) but please do me a favour we all have a living to earn, when I do a job I get paid once PERIOD .Be it a good wage or a poor one.

When you make a chair, build a car, balance the books for some mega-corp, in fact do anything that isn't inventive, you get paid once because either you don't do a job that can be sold on, or you build a product that can't be burnt onto a CD/photocopied/taped.

People in the creative industries make their living out of selling an idea. In the case of music they sell you the sound that's on the media that you buy, but in Britain they retain all the rights to that sound, and if you sell it on you should ask their permission first, and if they ask for money for the privilege then once again, you should cough up because that's their right in law.

In the real world you needn't bother because they aren't bothered either... Except... When some guy who hardly made a penny out of their hard work when it was first released sees their brain child selling for silly money, and then I don't think you can blame them for wanting a cut, it's their right, and the law's on their side.

Bottom line, if you sell your car you either have to buy another or find another means of transport, if you do a paperwork job you have to do it again next week, if you dig holes... You can see where I'm going. People in the creative world can be ripped off because they're producing something invisible which requires a carrier for its distribution, people in the hard world have an end product that can't be copied. If it's wanted again, and that's the basis of almost all industry in the world, the job has to be repeated and the worker gets paid for it all over again. Can you imagine the world if creative people worked like that? Just made one copy of their new record and sold it to the highest bidder, and if you wanted a copy after that you'd have to pay them to record it all over again?

Copyright payments are a really crap method of paying someone for their work, but so far no one's come up with anything better.

March 31, 2009

FFS! Can't believe this is still running!

March 31, 2009

FFS! Can't believe this is still running!

Me too mate mate - it would do my head in trying to follow it and as Dave and I are usually thread stoppers I'll do my bit..............now everyone sing after me.................

"A FISTING A DAY KEEPS THE SOUL SNOBS AWAY"

March 31, 2009

Ford or Vauxhall got there 'dues' at the point of sale...many of the artists didn't...that's the difference.

They all signed contracts. And if they didn't, tough luck.

Many did, and many did make money out of it, if the record sold.

This whole 'poor black man ripped off by rich scheming white music producer' sob story is so patronising, it's almost racist, certainly naive.

Here's one example, James Bell from The Highlighters, this is an extract from an interview I did with him from several years ago (Malcom Cato (no relation to Steve) was present):

Malcom Cato: What about if say, your sixteen corners which is very rare. There are like a couple of copies in good enough condition to play out. What if the DJ who had one of these copies covers it up. Covers the label so that no one else can see who the band is. To keep it as a secret, so it is unique to that DJ.

>JB: If it is his record he can do what he wants with it.

>JT: But if sixteen corners had been covered up, then no one would have known about you, and it would not have been a big hit again.

>JB: No I do not think that is wrong. What I believe is that you will get what is coming to you in life. If it meant for you to get more money then you will get it. I made plenty money off of Sixteen Corners when it first came out. I was satisfied. I was completely satisfied, you know. This what is happening now is a plus. Funky Sixteen Corners, has already done for me, what I wanted it to do. I was satisfied. After you are satisfied, anything else is just added onto that satisfaction. Like if I buy my wife a fur coat, she is very happy with the fur coat. It has been her life's dream. Now she has her fur coat, I mean the next year I may buy her a fur hat. She likes it, that is an added plus to her fur coat. I am alot different to other people, okay. I do not depend on other people to satisfy me. I am my own worse critic. Once I satisfy myself everything is fine. I was completely satisfied with funky sixteen corners. Completely. Myself personally, and that is all I want out of life. Is to be satisfied with me.

>MC: I would say though that you were lucky that Keb found your record though.

>JB: Yeah, but that is a plus! I am even more satisfied. However it will never reach the level of satisfaction that I obtained from creating it in the first place. Nothing will happen now that will make me more pleased with myself.

>JT: I find it interesting that you made alot of money. Because alot of people over here seem to think that all the artists back then were these poor hard done by, oppressed black people. Unable to make it in the white music industry.

>JB: This view point is my view point, because I do not seek my satisfaction from the outside. I seek it from within. If I create something , but firstly I want you to know that I have never been poor. I have never been rich, but never poor. Okay, so me creating Funky Sixteen Corners was not an avenue to getting paid, it was an avenue for me to express myself. And once that has happened, I am happy.

>JT: I find it surprising that the record was bigger back then than it is now. You have said you had commercial success, how many copies were pressed, because it is now so rare to find?

>JB: Because things are alot different in the United States than they are here in London. You say Funky Sixteen Corners is rare, but so are turn tables, and those middles to go in a seven inch. You can not buy those any more in the States. No one keeps old records. They throw them away, apart from collectors.

>JT: Can you remember how many copies of Sixteen Corners you pressed up?

>JB: A little over three thousand. Three orders of 1000 copies each. And then there was still the demand from the whole saler. And he called me and he needed some more. That I am sure of. Any after that I can not remember, it has been 31 years now! Popping Popcorn I did 1000 and a few more over that, but then Rojam did a load more that I did not know about. That is what the 3 diamonds on Sixteen Corners was about. COs you see, if you get me once that is you problem, but if you get me twice that is my problem. You understand?

>JT: Yeah, and overall that is a lot of copies.

>JB: See, the thing is WTLC, the radio station they rated their records every week. As to what was number one, down to 40 I think. The Funky Sixteen Corners was being played, and Popping Popcorn, against tunes like James Brown, Dyke and the Blazers, Wilson Picket, at the same time. Popping Popcorn made number one, locally. Locally it made number one, but it was up against the national competition. The listeners ordered it so much, it sold more records than what James Brown, Wilson Picket and all that sold. And trying to get chosen made number 7 and Sixteen Corners number 2.

>JT: Did you sell your records nation wide?

>JB: No.

>JT: Why, when you were achieving such local success?

>JB: First of all, there were no major labels in the Indianapolis area. Second thing is lack of knowledge. We did not know how to get a record distributed at the time. And we were playing all the time you know. We did not get out and go to say Chess Records, Atlantic trying to publish our product.

Edited March 31, 2009 by James Trouble

cementman · March 31, 2009

I would probably use the word respect as an alternative to snobbery. As an occasional DJ in a relatively small scene, the only time I would play a boot or re-issue intentionally is when I believe that nobody in our small roster of DJs owns an original. If people ask I'll tell them it's a boot. Some tunes demand to be played, boots or carvers do the trick until originals turn up. When someone acquires an original I wouldn't play the boot out again. As all of our venues are vinyl only there's no other way people will get to dance to certain records. For instance we had Mark Speakman guesting at the Australian Nationals. He played Lady in Green which I don't think anybody else in Oz plays. Should we wait until he comes back to dance to it again?

Paul Sadot also played here a few years ago. Unfortunately some from his playlist were not appreciated due to them not being played out here before. It's no good to us if DJs break a record then take it back to the UK again.

I'm starting to ramble but the gist of my comments is, original where possible, boot if no original available.

By the way I don't have a lot of boots, much prefer to try to put together a playlist with my own stamp to it.

Roger Williams · March 31, 2009

I would probably use the word respect as an alternative to snobbery.

There's absolutely nothing wrong with having respect for the scene as you see it, or upholding your own beliefs in terms of collecting and DJ'ing with original records, nothing in the slightest. Where the snobbery comes in is from those who judge, look down their nose at, and talk down to others for not having the same values as them and say that people shouldn't be doing this and that because it doesn't fit in their own views or way of doing things. There's also nothing wrong with having passion and enthusiasm, most people on any scene have it some way or another, but I've seen plenty of examples in this thread and threads like it, where people have used their 'passion' in a vain attempt to hide their ignorance, obnoxious arrogance and lack of basic human respect for others.

That's how I see it anyway. :rolleyes:

March 31, 2009

There's absolutely nothing wrong with having respect for the scene as you see it, or upholding your own beliefs in terms of collecting and DJ'ing with original records, nothing in the slightest. Where the snobbery comes in is from those who judge, look down their nose at, and talk down to others for not having the same values as them and say that people shouldn't be doing this and that because it doesn't fit in their own views or way of doing things. There's also nothing wrong with having passion and enthusiasm, most people on any scene have it some way or another, but I've seen plenty of examples in this thread and threads like it, where people have used their 'passion' in a vain attempt to hide their ignorance, obnoxious arrogance and lack of basic human respect for others.

That's how I see it anyway.

:rolleyes:

absolutely.

Jayne.x

April 7, 2009

This whole 'poor black man ripped off by rich scheming white music producer' sob story is so patronising, it's almost racist, certainly naive.

The most racist thing about it is your assumption that it's racist. There are a lot of white jazz and rock'n'rollers out there who were every bit as ripped off as the black artists, and neither was the ripping off restricted to white guys, a lot of black agents and producers were only in it for their money as well.

Of course not everyone got ripped off. There were some honest people in the biz, but even today I'd hesitate to put the number at more than 50%. The music business is inherently dishonest. Sad, but true.

April 7, 2009