Midlands Soul Scene

[Guest SoulRenaissance]

we await with baited breath Mart

if any one is interested i will be playing a Carl and Maria Redemption Room set at Broad Lane tomorrow night

The only thing i can add for the moment Ted, is that most of the venues of recent years that have tried to play something different have been half baked or have played politics. And as you know i haven't/ won't support them until they get their act together.

Well it's no good pretending to be a rare soul venue that plays something different, if they're just going to change one set of records for another. Or use one set of dj's, instead of the regular lot.

Without going into it on a deeper level too much, inclusivity is the word. But unfortunately the word i'd use is exclsuion to describe the folks who've put 99% of venues on in the W.Mids area, who've said they're going to be different. Wheeling out certain names, at the said times. You need jocks on with their fingers on the pulse, who put the time in at venues. Not 'he's my mate, so we'll have him on'. Or just cause he's a name. Name's mean nothing if they're not doing nothing, dj spots should be earned.

If someone out there is going to be serious, i might consider supporting them. I've been disappointed too many times in the past.

But until?

Martyn

[Guest]

The only thing i can add for the moment Ted, is that most of the venues of recent years that have tried to play something different have been half baked or have played politics. And as you know i haven't/ won't support them until they get their act together.

Well it's no good pretending to be a rare soul venue that plays something different, if they're just going to change one set of records for another. Or use one set of dj's, instead of the regular lot.

Without going into it on a deeper level too much, inclusivity is the word. But unfortunately the word i'd use is exclsuion to describe the folks who've put 99% of venues on in the W.Mids area, who've said they're going to be different. Wheeling out certain names, at the said times. You need jocks on with their fingers on the pulse, who put the time in at venues. Not 'he's my mate, so we'll have him on'. Or just cause he's a name. Name's mean nothing if they're not doing nothing, dj spots should be earned.

If someone out there is going to be serious, i might consider supporting them. I've been disappointed too many times in the past.

But until?

Martyn

Hi Martyn,

Matt and myself are very serious about the venue we are running in Kersley, Coventry. Rare/underplayed/lesser known northern and RnB is the music policy we've got in place, main focus on 60s but nothing ruled out....if it's good enough then we'll play it.

The point you have made about mates DJing is one of my biggest criticisms the current scene. We've got 4 resident DJs: Killa who is one of the best around and yet so underated, Callum who is also a resident at the mod Pow Wow night in Sheffield and plays a brilliant mix of mod/northern/RnB and makes me look old! Other two are Matt and myself and we only play the first and last sets of the night. So far guest DJs have been Karl Heard, Steve Csordas, Pat Wallace and Des Parker. Next night is tomorrow with guests Johnny Fingers and Pat Bleasdale....future guests include Flanny, Dave Abbott, Chalky etc.

If you've not been to one of the first nights (I'm really, really cr*p at working out Soul Source IDs of people I meet, always ask but then have always forgotten an hour later!) then come down tomorrow and have a look for yourself.....even get a free CD if you're early enough .

Adam.

[Guest SoulRenaissance]

Hi Martyn,

Matt and myself are very serious about the venue we are running in Kersley, Coventry. Rare/underplayed/lesser known northern and RnB is the music policy we've got in place, main focus on 60s but nothing ruled out....if it's good enough then we'll play it.

The point you have made about mates DJing is one of my biggest criticisms the current scene. We've got 4 resident DJs: Killa who is one of the best around and yet so underated, Callum who is also a resident at the mod Pow Wow night in Sheffield and plays a brilliant mix of mod/northern/RnB and makes me look old! Other two are Matt and myself and we only play the first and last sets of the night. So far guest DJs have been Karl Heard, Steve Csordas, Pat Wallace and Des Parker. Next night is tomorrow with guests Johnny Fingers and Pat Bleasdale....future guests include Flanny, Dave Abbott, Chalky etc.

If you've not been to one of the first nights (I'm really, really cr*p at working out Soul Source IDs of people I meet, always ask but then have always forgotten an hour later!) then come down tomorrow and have a look for yourself.....even get a free CD if you're early enough .

Adam.

Adam i'll do my best to get down to Coventry in the near future. Just had other venues to visit on certain dates, people to see, etc. There are about 4 or 5 that i'm planning to get to asap.

Martyn

[burt weedon]

Adam i'll do my best to get down to Coventry in the near future. Just had other venues to visit on certain dates, people to see, etc. There are about 4 or 5 that i'm planning to get to asap.

Martyn

LADS,ive just got in from cov,adam,my opion ,i think i spoke to you,i personely think youve got the right attitude n djs,kila proppa,the other lads bang on,but its like martin has just said,wot fcks this scene up is people who gossip throu therer arse holes instead of attending,good luck to you m8, ive dun it n shit it but still tek no notice.ktf.burt

[mrs soul]

I have decided not to run a venue in wolves why would I, you have u.s.o.s. and lifeline, 2 of the best upfront nites and niter to go and support, the west midlands scene is changing IMO, with these 2 venues running side by side, wonderful, so you lot can go and fill yer boots and of course inbetween the little anoraks corner called the sunflower lounge, so dont panic plus you have move on up, soul select, what you all waiting for go and support these venues who are offering you the best as always in soul music

[Guest sandi]

HAVING LIVED IN WOLVES FOR 30 YRS NOW, IN MY YOUTH I MADE SURE THAT THE WEEKEND WAS ACTION PACKED, COMING UP TO THE MIDLANDS TO GO TO THE CATS, UP THE JUNCTION MECCA AND THE TORCH WITH THE LIKES OF MICK SMITH ect, WHEN WIGAN OPENED IN SEPT 73 UP UNTIL I DROPPED OF THE SCENE IN THE SPRING OF 78 I WOULD GO TO THE MECCA, WIGAN SAT NIGHT ,WIGAN OLDIES ALLNIGHTERS, CATS WHISKERS,SAMANTHAS, THE RITZ, CLEATHORPS BOTH PIERS, YATE,ST IVES AND PETERBOURGH, NOT FORGETTING THE MALLETT AND MANY MORE I EVEN WENT TO THE WHEEL IN 69, SO YOU CAN IMAGINE WHEN I CAME TO WOLVES EXPECTING IT TO BE DRIPPING WITTH RARE SOUL? I KNOW I DID NOT GO TO STAFFORD SHAME ON ME BUT DID GO TO THE VIC, 86 CLUB, JUNCTION 10 ALLNIGHTERS, KEELE, AND USE TO DJ AT THE BLACK HORSE, NOT FORGETTING PADDY & AGGYS DUES AT THE CONAUGHT, AND TEDS AT THE TOP OF THE STAIRS, BUT RECENTLY LIKE THE LAST 8 YEARS I STAY AT HOME AND GET MORE SATISFACTION PLAYING MY OWN RECORDS THIS IS MAINLY DUE TO THE FACT THAT WITH THE GREATEST RESPECT TO ALL MY FRIENDS MOST LOCAL SOUL NIGHTS ARE TO MUCH THE SAME IN THAT THEY PLAY THE SAME STUFF ALL THE WHILE I HAVE RANTED ON ABOUT THIS SITUATION FOR YEARS AND THE POLICY GOES SOMETHING LIKE THIS IF YOU OWN A 100 TOP TUNES YOU GET A DJ SPOT IF YOU OWN AND TRULY COLLECT SOUL MUSIC FOR THE THE PASSION OF THE RECORD NO MATTER THE PRICE YOU DONT GET TO PLAY THEM OR WORSE BY A LOAD OF REISSUE STUFF AND CALL YOURSELF A SOUL BOY/GIRL I WANT TO HAVE NIGHTS LIKE IN THE BEGINING THAT IT WAS EXCITING TO BE THERE AND WANT TO TRY AND OWN SOME OF THE RECORDS YOU HERED ON THE NIGHT I HAVE SPOKEN TO PETE SMITH ABOUT THIS AS THERE ARE NO REAL SOUL NIGHTS THAT CATOR FOR THE LIKES OF MYSELF ANY MORE I AM 57 NOT 27 THEM DAYS ARE OVER FOR ME I CAN JUST MAKE IT TO KEELE 3 TIMES A YEAR AND THAT TO IS NOT AS WELL SUPPORTED BY THE WEST MIDLANDS CROWD UNLESS YOU CALL 15 A REPRESENTATION I DONT LETS MAKE THINGS HAPPEN AND NOT JUST TALK ABOUT WHAT WE WANT AND MISS DAVE KIL

Bloody well said Dave,

As you may well know,Harpo and l have banged our heads up against brick walls trying to convey the same message.

You and l both know that Harpo , Neil Rushton, Chris Plant and Mick Holdsworth, started the Cavendish Suite in Wolverhampton and deliberately called it a "RARE" soul night rather than "Northern soul" this was in the hope that they could pull the scene back from the depths of near extinction as we knew it back then.

You are spot on, the midlands was like the land of milk and honey for soulies, then there came a drought, yet with the birth of the Cavendish Wolverhampton was once again on the soul map and it went on to become a great success, so if those four guys could do it back then, why cant promoters manage to now.

The Laffayette was one of the most progressive venues (tues nights) that drove forward the birth of the "modern soul" scene 1979, Soul Sam,Pep,Harpo,Ian Tyrer,Hargy,and occasionally others playing the very best of soulful music.

The Cavendish was the No one venue in the country for rare soul, every top D.J. had at least one guest apperance.................

Whats the problem????, quite simply, lack of quality music policy and not much thought by promoters as to what D.J.'s they put on.

Sorry if the truth stings but thats the way l see it.

Structure is what is needed, Promoting a venue is a business,and should therefore be treated likewise,and as business minded people know, there is no room for sentiment, or mutual back scrathing!!

I not having a go,just stating the obvious.

[mrs soul]

does anyone remember the octopus, and the silver dollar, or is it me showing my age, Sandi , agree with what you are saying but also I think, and maybe I,m old skool..but this soul scene was built up on respect that you had to earn, it was not a free for all, everybody moans , but like I have on my signature, are you going to let your mouth do the talking or your feet, I know you talk with your feet, think I will stop now its coming out all wrong if you get me drift

[Guest sandi]

does anyone remember the octopus, and the silver dollar, or is it me showing my age, Sandi , agree with what you are saying but also I think, and maybe I,m old skool..but this soul scene was built up on respect that you had to earn, it was not a free for all, everybody moans , but like I have on my signature, are you going to let your mouth do the talking or your feet, I know you talk with your feet, think I will stop now its coming out all wrong if you get me drift

Yes Lou, l remember The Octopus...Just , and you know l get your drift, we are of like mind you and l, and thats why l have the greatest respect for you.

RESPECT ! Now theres a word, maybe you're right it's sadly now a word that is of the "old Skool".

I know of many,many people still on the scene who are of the "Old Skool", who deserve to be shown that respect.

Lou l've been trying to think of ways to put down in words why respect is lacking on the scene and keep having to delete, sometimes it's better left unsaid .

Will speak to you soon mate x

Sandi

[Guest sandi]

does anyone remember the octopus, and the silver dollar, or is it me showing my age, Sandi , agree with what you are saying but also I think, and maybe I,m old skool..but this soul scene was built up on respect that you had to earn, it was not a free for all, everybody moans , but like I have on my signature, are you going to let your mouth do the talking or your feet, I know you talk with your feet, think I will stop now its coming out all wrong if you get me drift

Yes Lou, l remember The Octopus...Just , and you know l get your drift, we are of like mind you and l, and thats why l have the greatest respect for you.

RESPECT ! Now theres a word, maybe you're right it's sadly now a word that is of the "old Skool".

I know of many,many people still on the scene who are of the "Old Skool", who deserve to be shown that respect.

Lou l've been trying to think of ways to put down in words why respect is lacking on the scene and keep having to delete, sometimes it's better left unsaid .

Will speak to you soon mate x

Sandi

Here'a a quote to ponder over:

"Once respect was seen and heard,

Now respect is just another word,

Cause it ain't like it used to be"

RANDOLPH BROWN.

as it goes in the song.

Sandi

[Guest SoulRenaissance]

HAVING LIVED IN WOLVES FOR 30 YRS NOW, IN MY YOUTH I MADE SURE THAT THE WEEKEND WAS ACTION PACKED, COMING UP TO THE MIDLANDS TO GO TO THE CATS, UP THE JUNCTION MECCA AND THE TORCH WITH THE LIKES OF MICK SMITH ect, WHEN WIGAN OPENED IN SEPT 73 UP UNTIL I DROPPED OF THE SCENE IN THE SPRING OF 78 I WOULD GO TO THE MECCA, WIGAN SAT NIGHT ,WIGAN OLDIES ALLNIGHTERS, CATS WHISKERS,SAMANTHAS, THE RITZ, CLEATHORPS BOTH PIERS, YATE,ST IVES AND PETERBOURGH, NOT FORGETTING THE MALLETT AND MANY MORE I EVEN WENT TO THE WHEEL IN 69, SO YOU CAN IMAGINE WHEN I CAME TO WOLVES EXPECTING IT TO BE DRIPPING WITTH RARE SOUL? I KNOW I DID NOT GO TO STAFFORD SHAME ON ME BUT DID GO TO THE VIC, 86 CLUB, JUNCTION 10 ALLNIGHTERS, KEELE, AND USE TO DJ AT THE BLACK HORSE, NOT FORGETTING PADDY & AGGYS DUES AT THE CONAUGHT, AND TEDS AT THE TOP OF THE STAIRS, BUT RECENTLY LIKE THE LAST 8 YEARS I STAY AT HOME AND GET MORE SATISFACTION PLAYING MY OWN RECORDS THIS IS MAINLY DUE TO THE FACT THAT WITH THE GREATEST RESPECT TO ALL MY FRIENDS MOST LOCAL SOUL NIGHTS ARE TO MUCH THE SAME IN THAT THEY PLAY THE SAME STUFF ALL THE WHILE I HAVE RANTED ON ABOUT THIS SITUATION FOR YEARS AND THE POLICY GOES SOMETHING LIKE THIS IF YOU OWN A 100 TOP TUNES YOU GET A DJ SPOT IF YOU OWN AND TRULY COLLECT SOUL MUSIC FOR THE THE PASSION OF THE RECORD NO MATTER THE PRICE YOU DONT GET TO PLAY THEM OR WORSE BY A LOAD OF REISSUE STUFF AND CALL YOURSELF A SOUL BOY/GIRL I WANT TO HAVE NIGHTS LIKE IN THE BEGINING THAT IT WAS EXCITING TO BE THERE AND WANT TO TRY AND OWN SOME OF THE RECORDS YOU HERED ON THE NIGHT I HAVE SPOKEN TO PETE SMITH ABOUT THIS AS THERE ARE NO REAL SOUL NIGHTS THAT CATOR FOR THE LIKES OF MYSELF ANY MORE I AM 57 NOT 27 THEM DAYS ARE OVER FOR ME I CAN JUST MAKE IT TO KEELE 3 TIMES A YEAR AND THAT TO IS NOT AS WELL SUPPORTED BY THE WEST MIDLANDS CROWD UNLESS YOU CALL 15 A REPRESENTATION I DONT LETS MAKE THINGS HAPPEN AND NOT JUST TALK ABOUT WHAT WE WANT AND MISS DAVE KIL

Bloody well said Dave,

As you may well know,Harpo and l have banged our heads up against brick walls trying to convey the same message.

You and l both know that Harpo , Neil Rushton, Chris Plant and Mick Holdsworth, started the Cavendish Suite in Wolverhampton and deliberately called it a "RARE" soul night rather than "Northern soul" this was in the hope that they could pull the scene back from the depths of near extinction as we knew it back then.

You are spot on, the midlands was like the land of milk and honey for soulies, then there came a drought, yet with the birth of the Cavendish Wolverhampton was once again on the soul map and it went on to become a great success, so if those four guys could do it back then, why cant promoters manage to now.

The Laffayette was one of the most progressive venues (tues nights) that drove forward the birth of the "modern soul" scene 1979, Soul Sam,Pep,Harpo,Ian Tyrer,Hargy,and occasionally others playing the very best of soulful music.

The Cavendish was the No one venue in the country for rare soul, every top D.J. had at least one guest apperance.................

Whats the problem????, quite simply, lack of quality music policy and not much thought by promoters as to what D.J.'s they put on.

Sorry if the truth stings but thats the way l see it.

Structure is what is needed, Promoting a venue is a business,and should therefore be treated likewise,and as business minded people know, there is no room for sentiment, or mutual back scrathing!!

I not having a go,just stating the obvious.

Quite right Harpo. Dave where were you when we had the Manor on? All kinds of soul, cheap and expensive. A variety of dj's, from big names to local dudes. A cracking atmosphere, with regular crowds of 100-150 for our soul nights. And 280-320 for our niters. Instead of the Black Horse, as it was going around the same time.

I well remember Pete Smith putting a posting on Soul Source and making some rather unthought of comment on there, his loss at the time. Music policy was the very similar to what Lifeline is doing now. And no it wasn't disco.

There were many who supported Pep, who wouldn't touch us with a barge pole. Some of these are now banging on about something different, and raving about tunes we played years ago. Yet slagged us off for. But we also did the Station, and later the Black Horse, and others.

I ain't gonna bitch about it, but feel it was your loss. So we move on.

We now have a venues in the West Midlands once again that are playing something different with good crowds. Lifeline niters, the Sunflower, and USOS. There are also venues in close proximity that deserve support, with Coventry and Burton being a couple.

A couple of regrets from the Manor days, one being that there were a handful of dj's who should have been on then. But for some inexplicable reason weren't, like Mister Tee, John Farrell, and maybe Mick Holdsworth (if he still had the tunes).

Martyn

[Guest SoulRenaissance]

Oooo you could get me in right trouble with this thread !!!

First thing - can't believe Bishop's Wood hasn't had a mention. Granted I've not been to every one, but when I have, the music has been somewhere between vg+ and excellent, in terms of "interesting & quality" playlists ( i.e. leaving out the played to death oldies & handbag fodder)

Second thing - If you take out the last few years there has been an almost unbroken line of succession of strong clubs within 20 miles of Wolves, playing a mix of current breaking tunes, unknown & lesser knowns, plus underplayed/interesting music, stretching back to the dawn of the scene. Tell me, were the playlists at venues like The Cats, Cavendish, Stafford, Wheatsheaf, Bilston Town Hall, Lea Manor (behind closed doors), to name but a few, full of played to death/wedding Motown & Handbag tunes? no, they blooming weren't ! Most clubs featured dj's from the very top drawer of the scene, either as regulars or guests, so local people who didn't do a great deal of travelling still got to hear all the big cover up's and regional sounds.

So this idea of the West Midlands being an "Always and Only Oldies area" is a false memory, perpetrated by people who have a reason to do so, and largely weren't there for best part of twenty odd years in the middle while the rest of us were out enjoying hearing new exciting tunes and wearing thin the soles of our favourite dancing shoes, keeping the scene going locally and nationally.

Third thing - Personally I think we got it really close to perfect in the area when we had a parallel system, with every friday nite giving the punters a choice of one 'Interesting' Rare Soul nite, and one Oldies nite ( I said Oldies, not handbag) This left the saturday nites free for a choice between going out of the area to a major Niter, or the odd few local Niters and soul nites of both types.

The beauty of this system was that people travelled into the area and supported these clubs because it was worth it, as both types of nite were worthwhile, musically and atmosphere/crowd wise. The extra bodies meant promoters weren't always out of pocket, and meant the nites could be run on a more professional level. One problem now is that people are not political enough, and want their clubs to be all things to all men, with a foot in both camps, playing handbag and rarities/newies at the same club. It's my belief that this just makes largely unhappy punters, which is why so many clubs eventually fail. For every vocal complainer there's often another twenty, thirty or forty sitting around the tables looking glum, deciding "I'll give it one more try, then I'm not coming back here". Across The Board never meant 'let's play five hours of cheap handbag tunes and played out 'classics' and throw in two newies/rarities to justify the adverts", it was a term to describe the mixing of all styles of rare soul/northern soul/ modern soul, excluding anything hugely popular on the scene from 1979 or before.

Instead, people should be shouting from the rooftops "Our club only plays proper Oldies" "Our club only plays Handbag" or "Our Club plays Interesting Quality Rare Soul & won't play Handbag", whatever. That way folk can rally to support the clubs playing their favourite style of music. I know I'm making generalisations here, but usually handbag fans get very irate when dj's play something from outside of their musical orbit and give the promoters & dj's grief. The only difference between those fans and the fans of Interesting/Connoiseurs/ATB Rare soul is that these rare people tend to complain less, they just quietly leave and don't come back. Either way, people want what they want, and are now too long in the tooth to put up with spending time not enjoying themselves.

Fourth Thing - There is a way to have a healthy (non Oldies or Handbag) club scene in the area. There is room for four regular friday clubs and one special only every 3 months friday nite club, which truthfully need to be run by different people. It requires selfless people to organise it. The nites need to be run by people who understand the need to involve all the local collectors & dj's, and each weeks club needs to have its own flavour ( let's say one is a bit more late 60's crossover, one a bit more early 60's/r'n'b /popcorn, one a bit more 60's super rarities, one a bit more 70's for example) but with enough common ground so it feels like part of a whole.

I think it was Des Parker who summed it up one time, he said if you get 25-30 local dj's and tell them if they support the club each month, they will get a chance to get up on the decks & share their tunes 1,2,3 or 4 times a year, depending on their status/records/ability etc, Lea Manor was a bit like this. If each of these 25-30 bring along 1 or 2 people you've got the basis of strong healthy clubs, that other non dj's. and people from further afield would want to attend. I'm not saying it's impossible to run local clubs with resident dj's, just that it gets more difficult each time a new venue starts. If you're a rare soul enthusiast who likes to get up on the decks and share some tunes (i.e. a potential dj) and you know one club has 72 spots open to the likes of you a year, as opposed to a club that only has one spot open for guests each month, because the other spots are full of residents, then assuming the quality of the music and all other factors are similar surely you're more likely to support the 72 one?

Maybe you need one or two residents to ensure continuity? or 3 if it's a Niter? either way to make this idea work you need at least five, preferably six open spots, at least 45 mins long (better if it's an hour) so nites which run 8 til12 are never gonna offer enough. Is it really that hard to get a 1.30 or 2 o'clock club?

Last Thing - Most of us want a good local club to support (maybe every week is too much for some people?) trouble is convincing the reluctant like dthedrug that what your club has to offer is worth the effort. Word of mouth is always the best convincer, but if I bump into him this saturday morning up Bilston Market which clubs would I tell Dave he really must come to every time they are on? Which clubs would you tell him he really shouldn't miss ?

and finally. If we went back to that golden period of just one good oldies and one good non-oldies club every friday I know I'd want to breakout every so often & attend the good oldies club maybe four times a year, because although I believe in keeping moving forward, sticking to the original blueprint of northern soul, I still enjoy Classic Oldies, just not all the time and a 48 to 4 split in favour of interesting, underplayed, new, groundbreaking, different and just downright forgotten never was's seems about fair.

oh and by the way, just because you weren't around when it was written is no excuse for not knowing that a Classic Oldie that's rare by quantity doesn't qualify as Rare Soul in the Black Country Northern Soul Definitions Bible, as kept by the Black Country Soul Moles, circa 1981.

see I told you you were gonna get me in trouble .....

purist

Spot on with your post. Only got the chance to read through properly now. Yes it's hard to get the right club with a late licensce, even a one o'clock one.

As i used to pick the dj's at the Lea Manor until the last 2 years or so, before i had a lot of interference. (And it all went horrbily wrong).

Well the story and thinking behind it was....

Dj selction policy was not delberately developed as a rosta. Many collectors/ dj's had good collections, but were not being given proper sets. Except early ones, or no spots at all. And we were hearing the same old stuff, (more often than not).

So the plan was to utilise these people and their collections to the best of their abilities, and trust them. Something what the majority of promoters don't do.

Many of them supported the venue, 'cause not only did they like the music. But they were grateful for being given a chance, that many others would not give them. They were suprised that someone would give them this chance, after being disregarded by the rest. As a result they became loyal to us, it was also a case of respect. There were a small minority that abused this, but on the whole it worked well. I've used the term inclusive in a previous post, it made them feel appreciated. This is one of the things that the majority of promoters in the West Midlands have failed us. People are like commodities, and still we hear the same old bloody records. And the they wonder why they fail. Cause they ain't got a clue.

Now back to the dj 'rosta' at the Manor. It developed this way, because i lost control of the selection process. About 98/ 99 I was 'reminded' when picking dj's, that so and so hadn't dj'd for six months at the venue. And that basically they should be on the next lineup. It got to the nightmare situation where i lost the freedom to pick dj's as i felt fit. I saw good dj's about at venues, but couldn't pick them. Either because they didn't fit in with Lin's idea of what she liked, or there wasn't enough free spots left because of the 25 plus sets that had to be kept open for the dj's on the 'rosta'. This is where it all went wrong for me. DJ selection policy, (and what was being played at the venue). Was now being controlled, and manufactured. It's strength previously was freedom to 'choose', and is the word sponteneity the right word? This was all lost. And as many will know, the music went stale. The creativity, and freshness dissapeared. As time went on, i scaled down my activities in running the venue apart from the niters. And we had dj's like Andy Davies and Dave Fleming on. Whilst they had good tunes, and are nice people. They were the wrong ones for the venue, as indicated by the slow exodus of long time and loyal supporters over 18 month period. We knew they were wrong before they even appeared at the venue. But the lady had to have her way. She got it, empty venue.

Martyn

[Guest sandi]

Spot on with your post. Only got the chance to read through properly now. Yes it's hard to get the right club with a late licensce, even a one o'clock one.

As i used to pick the dj's at the Lea Manor until the last 2 years or so, before i had a lot of interference. (And it all went horrbily wrong).

Well the story and thinking behind it was....

Dj selction policy was not delberately developed as a rosta. Many collectors/ dj's had good collections, but were not being given proper sets. Except early ones, or no spots at all. And we were hearing the same old stuff, (more often than not).

So the plan was to utilise these people and their collections to the best of their abilities, and trust them. Something what the majority of promoters don't do.

Many of them supported the venue, 'cause not only did they like the music. But they were grateful for being given a chance, that many others would not give them. They were suprised that someone would give them this chance, after being disregarded by the rest. As a result they became loyal to us, it was also a case of respect. There were a small minority that abused this, but on the whole it worked well. I've used the term inclusive in a previous post, it made them feel appreciated. This is one of the things that the majority of promoters in the West Midlands have failed us. People are like commodities, and still we hear the same old bloody records. And the they wonder why they fail. Cause they ain't got a clue.

Now back to the dj 'rosta' at the Manor. It developed this way, because i lost control of the selection process. About 98/ 99 I was 'reminded' when picking dj's, that so and so hadn't dj'd for six months at the venue. And that basically they should be on the next lineup. It got to the nightmare situation where i lost the freedom to pick dj's as i felt fit. I saw good dj's about at venues, but couldn't pick them. Either because they didn't fit in with Lin's idea of what she liked, or there wasn't enough free spots left because of the 25 plus sets that had to be kept open for the dj's on the 'rosta'. This is where it all went wrong for me. DJ selection policy, (and what was being played at the venue). Was now being controlled, and manufactured. It's strength previously was freedom to 'choose', and is the word sponteneity the right word? This was all lost. And as many will know, the music went stale. The creativity, and freshness dissapeared. As time went on, i scaled down my activities in running the venue apart from the niters. And we had dj's like Andy Davies and Dave Fleming on. Whilst they had good tunes, and are nice people. They were the wrong ones for the venue, as indicated by the slow exodus of long time and loyal supporters over 18 month period. We knew they were wrong before they even appeared at the venue. But the lady had to have her way. She got it, empty venue.

Martyn

Hiya Martyn,

It's great when you get a possitive reply to what's been said by an old tart on the scene, it was me you said "well said about", yet both me and Paul feel the same (Harpo). there are only a few of us left now with real focused views and standards.....maybe one day it will catch on.

Best regards Sandi(Mrs Harpo) x

[harpo1]

Gotta tell you since it was bought to my attention some time ago more than once i've started to type up my thoughts, only to think oh f*** it its all so obvious thatr i get fed up and scrap it.

As Lou said, you've only got to look at flyers to see venue and Dj's to know what you are gonna get at a do, then it becomes a simple question, is it for me, if not then don't go.

I have at times done all the nights that i bracket as "social events", and if you go without any elevated expectations of music to be played, then it is easy to have a good time. I admit that at times over the years i have done the other thing, and dismissed a venue for other reasons, snobbery, some particular music bias, shit line up(i base that often on lack of drive, passion or maybe complacency). And have at times been so wrong about things that it gives me a little indicator to not fall into the type of those that you have tried to avoid.

I n the end i have little cash to spend, Sandi and i have families and kids, as well as other thngs to work around, so we have not been as active, preferring to do nighters, or what we see as "bankers" to go to, as my mate Lou also said "pay your money,mek 'ya choice"...it is the only way, if its a shit night then too bad, but it'll be your own choice, i'll go where i want to, notbecause they tell me not to.

I aint saying anymore on this its so basic, i aint gonna eat a turd and then moan about how it tastes, i'll leave it for those who like the taste.....and if they love it we both end up satisfied, and me with out a nasty taste.

And you all know what im coming up with next, it was and should still be a scene, with the exception of the odd specialist venue, one room playing great soul music from all periods, i know its just a dream after years of splits and idiocy, with a great level of lies and dismisall of anything that is seen as not au fait.

Wish i could with Sandi support you all, you always did for me at the Cavendish, ok i know that is not really a fair comparrison, as both times it ticked each and every box that was needed at that particular junction, but i cant finacially, i wont get involved in any turf wars or deliberate clashes, and there will be times i might just say Sandi i'll get some cans pop the telly on, and lets not waste some time, but that again is once more pointing out that you need to ask yourself if its going to be worthwhile a visit, most of us should be able to calculate that fucker!!!

So there you go, get out, enjoy "soul" music, savour the scenes friendship, meet old and make new friends, but most of all dont be one of the many many who hear the records but don't listen...you might just be suprised what you discover...where you might least expect to(ok yes to be fair i admit that my listening to this current r n b stuff has only strengthened my initial opinion, that being so i'll go where i dont have to hear it, i dont ask you to embrace as wide a taste as me, thats a personal choice, but neither will i try to question your views)

Just have some fun out of this wonderful music of our's....its given me so much pleasure that i still want to be able to savour it for a bit yet, and i won't let any silly arseish'ness from others get in the way.

Is it really that easy ....course it is....the scene is so eletist anyway, we are the "IN-CROWD our style and dedication has always given us that edge over all other scenes, lets keep it that way

[Guest soulgirlie]

Now back to the dj 'rosta' at the Manor. It developed this way, because i lost control of the selection process. About 98/ 99 I was 'reminded' when picking dj's, that so and so hadn't dj'd for six months at the venue. And that basically they should be on the next lineup. It got to the nightmare situation where i lost the freedom to pick dj's as i felt fit. I saw good dj's about at venues, but couldn't pick them. Either because they didn't fit in with Lin's idea of what she liked, or there wasn't enough free spots left because of the 25 plus sets that had to be kept open for the dj's on the 'rosta'. This is where it all went wrong for me. DJ selection policy, (and what was being played at the venue). Was now being controlled, and manufactured. It's strength previously was freedom to 'choose', and is the word sponteneity the right word? This was all lost. And as many will know, the music went stale. The creativity, and freshness dissapeared. As time went on, i scaled down my activities in running the venue apart from the niters. And we had dj's like Andy Davies and Dave Fleming on. Whilst they had good tunes, and are nice people. They were the wrong ones for the venue, as indicated by the slow exodus of long time and loyal supporters over 18 month period. We knew they were wrong before they even appeared at the venue. But the lady had to have her way. She got it, empty venue.

Martyn

Just listening to a radio show on Starpoint and thought I'd have a browse at this thread little knowing how much I was being bad mouthed.

I feel really sad reading this Martyn , I had no idea that you felt that way about things .. I think I asked one time if I could choose a DJ for my 40th ,that was Andy Davies as you mention above , if you say I asked for Dave Fleming as well then you're probably right because he is someone who I respect very much and someone who I do believe bought a freshness to the table ..but really .. 2 DJ's in getting on for 10 years ..amounts to getting my own way and a mass exodus ?!?!.

The modern room at the nighters took off massively because people did want progression and that exactly what they got in there ..I think the Soul Nights just ran their course after all those years and lots of other venues were springing up.

I don't really want to do this on a public forum Martyn and I don't want to go over old ground because none of this is helpful all these years later ..I worked tirelessly to help promote Lea Manor for many years as did Tait and I'm gutted coming on here by pure chance and reading this .

I also would like to say that hopefully peoples memories of Abrighton in the main are very good and happy and we should all be extremely proud that it was a legendary venue of its time .. I would far rather it be remembered positively .

Kind regards

Lin

Edited April 14, 2009 by soulgirlie

[Guest sandi]

Just listening to a radio show on Starpoint and thought I'd have a browse at this thread little knowing how much I was being bad mouthed.

I feel really sad reading this Martyn , I had no idea that you felt that way about things .. I think I asked one time if I could choose a DJ for my 40th ,that was Andy Davies as you mention above , if you say I asked for Dave Fleming as well then you're probably right because he is someone who I respect very much and someone who I do believe bought a freshness to the table ..but really .. 2 DJ's in getting on for 10 years ..amounts to getting my own way and a mass exodus ?!?!.

The modern room at the nighters took off massively because people did want progression and that exactly what they got in there ..I think the Soul Nights just ran their course after all those years and lots of other venues were springing up.

I don't really want to do this on a public forum Martyn and I don't want to go over old ground because none of this is helpful all these years later ..I worked tirelessly to help promote Lea Manor for many years as did Tait and I'm gutted coming on here by pure chance and reading this .

I also would like to say that hopefully peoples memories of Abrighton in the main are very good and happy and we should all be extremely proud that it was a legendary venue of its time .. I would far rather it be remembered positively .

Kind regards

Lin

Lin the lea manor was a great venue,l'm all for progression, it should be natural, the world around us is constatantly evolving, sadly the sad sacks of the soul scene are not, it's that that's holding back what should be a united assembly of everything soulful.

By the way Jamie was awesome at Prestatyn, how proud you must be.

I'm not going down with the sinking ship , no way, Time to fight back

Sandi x

Edited April 14, 2009 by sandi

[harpo1]

I also would like to say that hopefully peoples memories of Abrighton in the main are very good and happy and we should all be extremely proud that it was a legendary venue of its time .. I would far rather it be remembered positively .

Kind regards

Lin

Gotta say my memories as a late comer to the venue remain very positive, before my first visit i'd heard those "eletiste" comments, how nice it was to walk in to find many of the DJ's from the West Mids, had been followers of my venues and DJ career until i sold up, and that the music i heard played was in essence the progression from things Cliff, Myself and a few others played mid 80's onwards, and as many of my contemporaries were there it was not long until i began to feel comfy when i went, and that was not a thing i found easy in those days.

Didn't see the rosta of dj's from the start, but i have to say i always enjoyed it most with the small modern room, on nighters, when it was possible to slip back to see old mates in the big room, and not notice any appreciable difference in quality of music.

I wish it had been carried on as it was, and in my personal opinion, despite having many great nights at Soul Underground , i must say i think that a mutual policy would have benefitted the sucess of all post Manor promo's, as that crowd was so responsive to soul in all its forms.

I'm sure all will focus on good memories, as i found with the Cavendish, it is a hidden bonus at times to go out in the prime, as who wants that awful sight of a venue going publically through its death throes, they are never able to get the press or affection we did, so i think thats a good indication.

It is always seen as the big three in our area Catacombes, Cavendish and Lea Manor, and i feel proud to have the venue i was principally involved with in there, as i'm sure you three are, i cant see a fourth on the horizon, as things are, so lets savour it.

As i once said to Dave Thorley, nobody can ever take away what you did at TOTW and Bretby, and we are in the same position, and that will always be on our cv's big n bold

Harpo

[Guest soulboy]

Just listening to a radio show on Starpoint and thought I'd have a browse at this thread little knowing how much I was being bad mouthed.

I feel really sad reading this Martyn , I had no idea that you felt that way about things .. I think I asked one time if I could choose a DJ for my 40th ,that was Andy Davies as you mention above , if you say I asked for Dave Fleming as well then you're probably right because he is someone who I respect very much and someone who I do believe bought a freshness to the table ..but really .. 2 DJ's in getting on for 10 years ..amounts to getting my own way and a mass exodus ?!?!.

The modern room at the nighters took off massively because people did want progression and that exactly what they got in there ..I think the Soul Nights just ran their course after all those years and lots of other venues were springing up.

I don't really want to do this on a public forum Martyn and I don't want to go over old ground because none of this is helpful all these years later ..I worked tirelessly to help promote Lea Manor for many years as did Tait and I'm gutted coming on here by pure chance and reading this .

I also would like to say that hopefully peoples memories of Abrighton in the main are very good and happy and we should all be extremely proud that it was a legendary venue of its time .. I would far rather it be remembered positively .

Kind regards

Lin

the manor help me to move on with a little help from Pedro ! So thanks Lin and Tait